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From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 110	Posted - 2013.06.15 20:51:00 - [1] - Quote I am really curios on how is the game doling in the only place that matters... $$$$ -Has the game been profitable so far, or were you aiming for the game to become profitable after some time (3 months,6 months, 1 year, etc). I am going to guess it had to be first 2 or 3 months giving the way square enix measured the economic success of tomb rider. -How many downloads has the game had, and how many of those people have bough some amount of AUR, meaning the acceptation of the game. -What is the most and less sold item in the in-game market, once identified the less sold item, why?, do players don-¦t feel its worth it? I had some more but i forgot... gonna leave this open in case i remember them.- - - - - - I am not asking for an interview with the CFO, but can we get someone from that department to share some light on this subjects?
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:21:00 - [2] - Quote Am i the only one interested in this stuff?
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 211	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:23:00 - [3] - Quote Im interested on how much profit goes to sony , if any at all?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2818	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:26:00 - [4] - Quote http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47002/ccp%202012%20consolidated%20financial%20statements.pdf Not sure if you can find anything useful here.
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:50:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47002/ccp%202012%20consolidated%20financial%20statements.pdf Not sure if you can find anything useful here. EDIT: Let's play a game. How many times can you find 514 in this report? Had to use Google search... XD twice... there is no specific value of how much of the income actually comes from DUST, its all summed up with EVE and WOD (which since is not release i assume has not made any kind of income or what so ever), also between the 3 they make a kitten ton of money... of which at least 80% is EVE But thanks for the help.. dough i can-¦t really say if dust is profitable from that financial report.. I can say this much... holly crap your employees are expensive!! over 30M in salaries for little over 500 people!!! That is a lot of money!
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 279	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:10:00 - [6] - Quote Actually the wages of any company's staff is always their biggest cost. It's why they're the first to go if a company wants to save money. Sad but true. That actually looks like a healthy financial report. Good work CCP.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2827	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:25:00 - [7] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Actually the wages of any company's staff is always their biggest cost. It's why they're the first to go if a company wants to save money. Sad but true. That actually looks like a healthy financial report. Good work CCP. It explains a lot as to how they figure out how to cover the cost of the UVTs for us.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2827	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:26:00 - [8] - Quote PonyClause Rex wrote: http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47002/ccp%202012%20consolidated%20financial%20statements.pdf Someone tell me what is wrote on the bottom left hand side of page 8 lol made me chuckle CCP Financial Report 2012 wrote: *Each share is 1 ISK
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2827	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:28:00 - [9] - Quote From Costa Rica wrote: twice... there is no specific value of how much of the income actually comes from DUST, its all summed up with EVE and WOD (which since is not release i assume has not made any kind of income or what so ever), also between the 3 they make a kitten ton of money... of which at least 80% is EVE But thanks for the help.. dough i can-¦t really say if dust is profitable from that financial report.. I can say this much... holly crap your employees are expensive!! over 30M in salaries for little over 500 people!!! That is a lot of money! No problem. I guess we'll just have to wait for next year's report or hope CCP posts graphs about it. But yeah, it's expensive to have employees.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 208	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:28:00 - [10] - Quote Profit looks healthy but considering revenues are increasing year on year it is interesting that the profit for the period is decreasing in the last financial year. Also R&D costs have gone up significantly. My best guess based on these accounts is that Dust is currently a major financial drain on CCP and is not generating it's own profit at this point. Not unusual for a new product but it means that Dust 514 needs to start generating a profit quite soon and not remain a financial drain for years to come. If things continue as is it would not take much to wipe out an even bigger portion of that profit especially if they maintain the same spending as they are currently doing. This is based on an assumption that may be incorrect. That assumption is: R&D costs on Eve are fairly static as CCP knows what it is doing there and has a very experienced team and most of the additional costs are going on Dust where they have a much less experienced team and a much smaller player base spending less money on the game.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2827	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:29:00 - [11] - Quote I have over 800 million ISK in Eve. Does that mean I own the company and won Eve?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2827	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:32:00 - [12] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: Profit looks healthy but considering revenues are increasing year on year it is interesting that the profit for the period is decreasing in the last financial year. Also R&D costs have gone up significantly. My best guess based on these accounts is that Dust is currently a major financial drain on CCP and is not generating it's own profit at this point. Not unusual for a new product but it means that Dust 514 needs to start generating a profit quite soon and not remain a financial drain for years to come. If things continue as is it would not take much to wipe out an even bigger portion of that profit especially if they maintain the same spending as they are currently doing. This is based on an assumption that may be incorrect. That assumption is: R&D costs on Eve are fairly static as CCP knows what it is doing there and has a very experienced team and most of the additional costs are going on Dust where they have a much less experienced team and a much smaller player base spending less money on the game. One way to increase revenue from Dust is to allow players to trade directly with each other in addition to the merc-to-merc ISK transfers. This will generate a base model for a secondary market that CCP can rely on as AUR items become bought more often with cash to meet demand and as more players use them up to match up the supply.
Guildo Crow PROJECT 86 U 46	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:53:00 - [13] - Quote Off topic. But seriously, 30 million in salaries for 500 people is expensive? what are you nuts!? That's pretty average, below average I'd say. honest.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2829	Posted - 2013.06.23 21:02:00 - [14] - Quote Guildo Crow wrote: Off topic. But seriously, 30 million in salaries for 500 people is expensive? what are you nuts!? That's pretty average, below average I'd say. honest. That's about $60,000. Keep in mind that this is in USD, not in Icelandic Kronos (ISK). Since 1 USD = 122 ISK, that amounts to 7,320,000 ISK. Keep in mind that the economy over there in Iceland is still recovering from the economy recession of 2008. You know what's funny about Iceland's economy? off topic Iceland arrested their bankers and threw them into jail and let their own economy tank while the US bailed out its own bankers. Guess which country recovered faster. Hint: It's not the US.
From Costa Rica Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.06.24 03:21:00 - [15] - Quote Guildo Crow wrote: Off topic. But seriously, 30 million in salaries for 500 people is expensive? what are you nuts!? That's pretty average, below average I'd say. honest. I don-¦t know how much do you get paid, but that is a lot better that the average salary on my country.. then again CCP employees are not average. Just look at socksfour... there is something especial in that kid.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 280	Posted - 2013.06.24 08:48:00 - [16] - Quote The R&D costs aren't just Dust 514 development costs you have to remember. I would even say that the majority of is is spent on Eve. It's the more complex game after all.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Omega Commission 178	Posted - 2013.06.24 09:13:00 - [17] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Guildo Crow wrote: Off topic. But seriously, 30 million in salaries for 500 people is expensive? what are you nuts!? That's pretty average, below average I'd say. honest. That's about $60,000. Keep in mind that this is in USD, not in Icelandic Kronos (ISK). Since 1 USD = 122 ISK, that amounts to 7,320,000 ISK. Keep in mind that the economy over there in Iceland is still recovering from the economy recession of 2008. You know what's funny about Iceland's economy? off topic Iceland arrested their bankers and threw them into jail and let their own economy tank while the US bailed out its own bankers. Guess which country recovered faster. Hint: It's not the US. Kind of. Iceland is recovering quicker in percentage terms. But they are starting from a lower base so the 'increases/ economic expansion' is 'bigger'. This is different to value of the economy/ GDP. FYI: I agree with Iceland's general position.
Glori Jinn Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 7	Posted - 2013.06.24 09:14:00 - [18] - Quote Guildo Crow wrote: Off topic. But seriously, 30 million in salaries for 500 people is expensive? what are you nuts!? That's pretty average, below average I'd say. honest. Yikes! I want to work where you work then please!... G
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 211	Posted - 2013.06.24 09:52:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: A'Real Fury wrote: Profit looks healthy but considering revenues are increasing year on year it is interesting that the profit for the period is decreasing in the last financial year. Also R&D costs have gone up significantly. My best guess based on these accounts is that Dust is currently a major financial drain on CCP and is not generating it's own profit at this point. Not unusual for a new product but it means that Dust 514 needs to start generating a profit quite soon and not remain a financial drain for years to come. If things continue as is it would not take much to wipe out an even bigger portion of that profit especially if they maintain the same spending as they are currently doing. This is based on an assumption that may be incorrect. That assumption is: R&D costs on Eve are fairly static as CCP knows what it is doing there and has a very experienced team and most of the additional costs are going on Dust where they have a much less experienced team and a much smaller player base spending less money on the game. One way to increase revenue from Dust is to allow players to trade directly with each other in addition to the merc-to-merc ISK transfers. This will generate a base model for a secondary market that CCP can rely on as AUR items become bought more often with cash to meet demand and as more players use them up to match up the supply. I agree that direct trade between players for aurum-to-isk items could increase revenue but based on player count and the operating expenses as presented in the financial year ending 31.12.2012 it would have a negligible impact on the bottom line. That is to say that Dust 514 would still be a money sink without a significant increase in the paying active player base. Please note that this is my best guess at how money is being spent on Dust and the returns they are getting back from the player base but it is still only a guess. CCP appears to be spending millions and only getting back tens of thousands in revenue from Dust. As others like to mention Dust 514 is not like COD and I agree. In COD once you complete COD ZZ you pretty much shut down the project and shift most of your resources and personnel to the next project. With Dust 514 this is not possible as this is basically a 10 year + project so if they want to maintain the tempo they currently have then they also need to maintain the level of resourcing and personnel as well. This in turn means that they will continue to spend millions and do you really believe they are even close to break even at this point? On the one hand things are good, the company was profitable, but on the other how many years can you imagine CCP spending money on a project that is eating a fair chunk of that profit and not showing any significant revenue at the moment. In fact it is not even showing any hope of a return on investment. CCP needs to find a means of significantly increasing the player base in the, relative, short term to make this project truly viable. I would say by the end of this year or next year at the very outside if they think the switch to the PS4 will be slow. Otherwise they really need to evaluate what future projects would give them a better return on investment e.g. re-invest back into Eve, which is profitable and growing, or start creating apps for tablets and smart phones or maybe convert dust into an RTS that goes onto a tablet or the PC. At the end of the day CCP is a business and needs to ensure that they get a good return on the money they spend on projects. Dust does not appear to be small potatoes, in terms of money spent, and as such presents a significant risk. Spending a few million on a project that is loosing a lot of money each year is fine if you are making 100s of millions in profit after expenses and taxes but quite different for a business whose profit for the period does not exceed 10 million. The current active player base is simply too small for this project to be profitable especially if they keep spending money as they are. Even if I am wrong on the figures and they are only spending 100s of thousands that is still far more than they are getting in revenue from this game. My hope is that I am wrong in my evaluation and the accounts for 31.12.2013 show a significant improvement over 2012.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 211	Posted - 2013.06.24 09:57:00 - [20] - Quote Glori Jinn wrote: Guildo Crow wrote: Off topic. But seriously, 30 million in salaries for 500 people is expensive? what are you nuts!? That's pretty average, below average I'd say. honest. Yikes! I want to work where you work then please!... G Considering the business they are in it isn't actually a lot of money. They will have quite a few well paid and highly skilled developers on payroll since this is the core of the business. This is ignoring the fact that most senior managers and directors will generally expect salaries well above the average for a member of staff in that business.

Glori Jinn Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 10	Posted - 2013.06.25 07:31:00 - [21] - Quote I'd imagine that one of the key financial objectives of DUST514 is to seed players in to EvE and increase subscriptions there, so DUST514 may alwys be a loss leaders and still considered successful. G
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2870	Posted - 2013.06.25 15:53:00 - [22] - Quote @A'Real Fury I agree with your concerns. But I do remember specifically a quote from CCP several years back telling folks at Fanfest 2011-2012 that Dust is meant to be a means of encouraging more players to join Eve Online. As of right now, there are players in Dust who are already subscribing into Eve for the first time in their lives because of the stories they hear that come out of Eve and they want to be a part of it. They are starting to realize a universe here with infinite possibilities and almost no rules on how you are suppose to play. As for the research into mobile apps for tablets and smartphones, CCP is already researching into that as made apparent by their previous fanfest back in 2011 and the recent interview with the CEO of CCP. Then there is the recent news of the comic book that Dark Horse Comics is working on in collaboration with CCP that will be based on the true stories of New Eden (not the game lore). And finally, they are in touch with a famous Icelandic producer who is planning on creating a TV series that is also based on the true stories of New Eden. Notice that everything here points back to Eve Online and the stories the players have created there during the past and what they are doing now. The in-game lore created by CCP isn't what attracts new players. It's the events and shenanigans created and hosted by the players. The infamous Eve Bank scandal, the fateful summer of rage known as the Jita Riots, the massive assault on Jita 4-4 forever known as Burn Jita, the collapse of the Band of Brothers alliance, the unplanned massive shootout in the Asakai system that resulted in a system-wide TiDi lock down, the little-known area of space known as the Pleasure Hub, the constants ganking of freighters in the Niarja system, margin trade scams, etc. CCP is taking advantage of these stories and spreading them across multiple platforms in an effort to create a massive science fiction experience that no other MMO or FPS have ever dared to create. CCP is banking on this effort because here is where they see the greatest return in their investment. Imagine one day in the future you switch on CNN or MSNBC or Fox News and watch a report about a massive ponzi-scheme operation uncovered just a few jumps away from Amarr. Eve is Real.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2870	Posted - 2013.06.25 15:58:00 - [23] - Quote NOTE: Eve Online has already seen at least one prominent series that dove into the in-game lore of New Eden. Clear Skies 1, 2, and 3 (find it on YouTube) This mini series was developed by an independent production group who play Eve Online and used a combination of in-game graphics mixed in with the all-famous Garry's Mod from the Half Life video game. It's still a hit to this day.
RoundEy3 Metal Mind Industries 129	Posted - 2013.06.25 16:09:00 - [24] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Eve is Real. Ahh that's funny. Different note. It's also funny, I played Eve after hearing about DUST some time ago. It was fun while it lasted but I will be cancelling my accounts come July. It was both an awesome game and a complete drain of life. I am simply done with it, I have many other real interests and hobbies. However I'd like to stay with DUST, but if it's only purpose is to be an EVE portal and never truly made into something functional and as it was proposed then I'll be done with that as well. I certainly hope DUST was and is meant for something more than just an EVE servant. I don't think the full time dusters would appreciate it much.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 545	Posted - 2013.06.25 16:22:00 - [25] - Quote I doubt that CCP expects DUST to start making money until probably some time in 2015, although they are probably hopping that it will start generating enough funds by 2014 to begin to decrease the financial drain. To get a larger user base DUST will have to have a lot more content and be a lot more polished. This will happen over time. When PVE is introduced, probably with the next expansion, the player base will jump quite a bit. This will be followed by a dip though, because PVE content will be fairly limited compared to other games when released, but this too will be developed and expanded over time. In 5 years DUST 514 will be the most intricate and deep FPS on the market, because no other company is going to spend 7+ years developing a FPS. That is when the big bucks will start rolling in.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 545	Posted - 2013.06.25 16:39:00 - [26] - Quote RoundEy3 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Eve is Real. Ahh that's funny. Different note. It's also funny, I played Eve after hearing about DUST some time ago. It was fun while it lasted but I will be cancelling my accounts come July. It was both an awesome game and a complete drain of life. I am simply done with it, I have many other real interests and hobbies. However I'd like to stay with DUST, but if it's only purpose is to be an EVE portal and never truly made into something functional and as it was proposed then I'll be done with that as well. I certainly hope DUST was and is meant for something more than just an EVE servant. I don't think the full time dusters would appreciate it much. Bringing new players to EVE is an immediate benefit of DUST. In the long term DUST is a crucial part of CCPGÇÖs vision of a complete simulated Science Fiction universe. I expect in a few years once DUST finally becomes profitable, then they will start working on a fighter game like what some of their developers did in their free time with the Virtual Reality technology. They arenGÇÖt doing anything more with it now because their financial resource are going into DUST.
RoundEy3 Metal Mind Industries 129	Posted - 2013.06.25 16:42:00 - [27] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: RoundEy3 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Eve is Real. Ahh that's funny. Different note. It's also funny, I played Eve after hearing about DUST some time ago. It was fun while it lasted but I will be cancelling my accounts come July. It was both an awesome game and a complete drain of life. I am simply done with it, I have many other real interests and hobbies. However I'd like to stay with DUST, but if it's only purpose is to be an EVE portal and never truly made into something functional and as it was proposed then I'll be done with that as well. I certainly hope DUST was and is meant for something more than just an EVE servant. I don't think the full time dusters would appreciate it much. Bringing new players to EVE is an immediate benefit of DUST. In the long term DUST is a crucial part of CCPGÇÖs vision of a complete simulated Science Fiction universe. I expect in a few years once DUST finally becomes profitable, then they will start working on a fighter game like what some of their developers did in their free time with the Virtual Reality technology. They arenGÇÖt doing anything more with it now because their financial resource are going into DUST. I've just learned to stop dreaming with this game and look atit with my eyes and control it through my hands. Those tell a different story.
Avallo Kantor DUST University Ivy League 105	Posted - 2013.06.25 16:46:00 - [28] - Quote CCP's "grand vision", or at least so far as we have been told is to have the New Eden universe be the most complete, most immersive Sci-fi universe of all time. They want a game where you can go into, fly in space, walk on planets, make literal back-room deals, make underhanded deals in pubs, and explore ancient ruins, in space, in station, and on your feet. They want a universe with a history that is shaped by the players, and one that's fate and day to day operation is through the efforts of players. This however is not an easy task, and perhaps not even a feasible one, but I think it's been the goal EVE, and now DUST have been slowly working towards for 10 years. CCP isn't playing a short game, and seem to be perfectly content if it takes them another 10 years to even get close to that grand vision. -And yes, EVE takes up alot of one's time. Often too much for me to be able to play, but I keep coming back because I feel there's something in that experience. Don't think it too bad a thing if you have to take breaks now and again, I do hope you come back to EVE in time though.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 214	Posted - 2013.06.25 16:48:00 - [29] - Quote @Maken Tosch I will not argue with your knowledge of previous fanfests or Eve lore in general as it far exceeds my own. However, I can not imagine that they can maintain the losses they are currently making on Dust unless you are looking at a truly massive increase in the player base on Eve Online that more than cover that cost. Loss leaders are only created when it actually increases your total profit for the company as a whole. Maybe it will and we won't know until they publish their accounts for the period ending 31.12.2013. But based on the limited increase in the player base upto now I can not imagine that there has been a big jump in new subscriptions for Eve as a result of Dust. It should also be noted that only a few people in any group will migrate from Dust to Eve, and stay, as the games are very different. However, at the moment there is a very real problem with New player retention and if CCP can not hold on to them then the chances of these players picking up Eve approach nil. The core of loss leaders, in this specific case, is to bring in new customers and sell them other things, Eve Online, while they are here in Dust. Current customers in this scenario do not contribute anything since they have already bought the other product from CCP. To be honest, we the current players, are no longer the target market. Any of us who would take up Eve have and we have also made the transition into the open battle environment without quitting so it is not us that CCP should be concerned with. The target group is the new players and their reasons for picking up the game and either continuing to play or quitting. CCP needs to cater to these new players and work out a strategy to keep them. If CCP has created Dust as a bridge to Eve then they are failing unfortunately as new players are not staying long enough to learn about New Eden at least indicated by the static and/or declining number of people logging in. Yes some of the decline is the fact that it is summer but numbers haven't changed significantly since open beta got into full swing. Please note that becoming profitable is not the sole objective as CCP also needs to recover the costs of producing the game I.e. if dust makes a loss of 3 million a year and then in the 5th year makes a profit of 1 million then they still lost 11 million over this 5 year period. 11 million that could have been used for something else. In time they could recover that money but you would be talking decades unless they manage a very big increase in the player base, Eve or Dust, who then proceed to spend lots and lots of money consistently every year.
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 545	Posted - 2013.06.25 17:16:00 - [30] - Quote If the next Call of Duty or Tomb Raider does not get enough users in the first month, then it would be considered a failure because there is no reason to think that it will have any more users in its sixth month than in its first. DUST 514 however, will be a more developed game in its sixth month than it was on release, but even then it will only be a small part of what the game will be in 4 or 5 years. I also think CCP expects DUST players to go play other games, and then come back and discover that DUST has improved while they were gone. They have designed the game to be easy to come back to. As DUST gets more and more content, it will be able to hold peopleGÇÖs attention for longer and longer periods of time. It will get to the point where people leave DUST to play the next COD or Planetside, but keep paying for Passive Busters because they expect to return. This will start to happen after people have returned to DUST for the second or third time.



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