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Zahle Undt
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
181
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I think most of us can agree that Dust needs work both in its FPS design and in the MMO department right? Hit detection is still off, weapons vehicles and suits need balancing still, etc... In the MMO area CCP is simply not living up to this game's promises in nearly any way currently in my opinion. Eve connection is superficial at best, no player market, and no real reason to engage in PC or FW right now.
Now I can only assume CCP has limited resources developer wise so one or the other of these areas is going to get more attention than the other right now. In my opinion, CCP should be focusing on more of the MMO aspects than the FPS facets of the game at the moment because those are what is going to set this game apart from other games in the FPS genre. If you are playing Dust more for the FPS gameplay, first of all I applaud your patience or perhaps straight masochism, but there are tons of games that can let you get your kill on...every year. However, as far as actually giving you reasons to kill other players, besides for unlocking weapons that function pretty much like the AR you are already using or putting your name on a leaderboard and having bragging rights there isn't much of a point. With Dust, though, it is supposed to be different, we are supposed to have more to fight for than reputation and shiney new unlocks aren't we? That's what the new and old trailers have sold us on at least.
Anyway thats my opinion, I think the MMO stuff is more important than fixing gameplay right now, but I am curious as to how everyone else feels, so ummmmm lets try to discuss this eh?
And please remember this is more about preference and opinion so I am going to ask for the impossible and request we not devolve into petty name calling over differences of opinion.
Thanks,
Z
PS: If there is some other thread already discussing this I apologize please link so I can forum war there and let this thread die and go into Dust 514 forum limbo for all eternity |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3683
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've accepted that it's going to take us a very long time to reach a stable AAA shooter environment. In the meantime, it would be REALLY nice to have something to do that was even slightly different than what I've been doing since March '12
AKA, MMO please |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
694
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Agreed.
We need PVE ASAP.
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Zahle Undt
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
181
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Agreed.
We need PVE ASAP.
I would love to have PvE, but I think having a player market and some actual Eve connectivity is even more important if CCP wants to deliver on some of what it is promising us. But PvE would definitely make Dust more enjoyable for scrubs like myself  |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
664
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't know why people are so obsessed with this game having to concentrate on either the FPS or MMO side - it can do both. There are devs for both sides who specialise in their respective department - you can just take some devs from the MMO side and put them to work on perfecting the FPS stuff and vice versa. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
697
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 17:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Agreed.
We need PVE ASAP.
I would love to have PvE, but I think having a player market and some actual Eve connectivity is even more important if CCP wants to deliver on some of what it is promising us. But PvE would definitely make Dust more enjoyable for scrubs like myself
I agree the market is a big deal. The reason I think PVE is even more important is because it will help shake the common mentality here that Dust is (supposed to be) a lobby shooter. |
Zahle Undt
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
182
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:I don't know why people are so obsessed with this game having to concentrate on either the FPS or MMO side - it can do both. There are devs for both sides who specialise in their respective department - you can just take some devs from the MMO side and put them to work on perfecting the FPS stuff and vice versa.
Oh it definitely needs both, but to me it really seems that they are really concentrating more on the FPS side of things so I assume (maybe quite wrongly) that they can only really focus in one or two areas at a time and right now what seems to be getting focus is FPS mechanics and item creation/introduction.
This is even leaving out that CCP is an independent company developing 3 games simultaneously Eve, Dust, and WoD
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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
131
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah, a few sprints worth of focus on the MMO side of things would be refreshing. |
lordjanuz
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation
143
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Agreed.
We need PVE ASAP.
Does not look like we are getting PVE this year. It was not mentioned at E3 at all. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
221
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Posted - 2013.06.13 17:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
the mmo side is lacking yes would like to see more of it |
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
209
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
MMO, PvE
Diversity is fun sometimes. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1929
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
DUST is neither. It's EVE with guns. I refuse to call it an FPS when there is no skill involved in playing it.
And for the inevitable first response - TACTICS ARE NOT SKILL. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
699
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
lordjanuz wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Agreed.
We need PVE ASAP.
Does not look like we are getting PVE this year. It was not mentioned at E3 at all.
It was mentioned in a recent video. Two modes, one for PC, and one for general play. The PC version was called infestation, and the general admittance was a kind of survival/firefight mode.
I'll look for a link to the video. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
699
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:DUST is neither. It's EVE with guns. I refuse to call it an FPS when there is no skill involved in playing it.
And for the inevitable first response - TACTICS ARE NOT SKILL.
lol!
You're trying to tell us that wiggling your tiny joystick is more skillful than knowing when to wiggle it?
lol! |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
720
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
They have the core FPS stuff down (almost, sorta).
Now they need the classic MMO staples:
Some kind of exploration and discovery. (Im in favor of a mass effect 1 type 'landing on empty maps and looking for stuff' type deal).
Crafting (or as its called in Eve : Industry)
Player driven economy.
PvE (not just shooting rats, but player verse environment, chock full of science fiction lovelyness).
|
nate09
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
my rant from other thread applies here.
There exists an issue within calling Dust a mmofps, due to the nature by which it operates. I want people to understand that i wish to separate dust from its supposed genre, because calling Dust an mmo, undercuts what it should be judge by. Is instanced matchmaking and repeating, segmented maps an characteristic of an mmo? Then what of Planetside2's maps, or Dayz's chernarus? or whatever the hell warz did? Those huge and open multi-km maps are classified as what? Now for the example that dust allows player corps to own Territory or planets, I ask, is Chromehounds or AC5 an mmo? Player corporations could own land and conquest regions in both of those games, and they had instanced matchmaking on segmented maps with character progress in the form of customizable mechs. I, and I would hope others, have an issue settling for this definition of mmofps and frankly that should not be the end result of CCP's grand vision.
As it stands now, dust through the eyes of an experienced gamer, or eve player, is exactly like other fps experiences available on the market. I won't say that without providing an explanation to that criticism. I believe that fundamentally, CCP could have made a true mmofps, a player run game modeled in the way of eve and been pioneers for the fps genre. I honestly believe that CCP has the talent and ideas to create that vision, but what they settled for was Dust, and I am sorry but that is not enough to claim an advancement in the genre. I look forward to Bungie's Destiny to see if they realized a more complete mmofps over dust, which I'm relatively positive they have. I dislike seeing both sides of this arguement on the forums to where players who truely believe in the promises conflict with those experiencing the reality. But as it sits, Dust is not a "new era" of frankly anything.
My last point is that if i was in CCP's position, i would be honestly scared. Why? Because this is the first attempt from a stagnate creative studio at a new ip, and it failed. If you wish to refute that statement, debate whether any studio develops for mediocrity and then claims success from that venture. CCP needs to take a long, hard look at the way it creates games to avoid another mistake such as dust, because regardless of promises made beforehand, a developer has to deliver.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
699
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:They have the core FPS stuff down (almost, sorta).
Now they need the classic MMO staples:
Some kind of exploration and discovery. (Im in favor of a mass effect 1 type 'landing on empty maps and looking for stuff' type deal).
Crafting (or as its called in Eve : Industry)
Player driven economy.
PvE (not just shooting rats, but player verse environment, chock full of science fiction lovelyness).
QFT |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
191
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dust isn't an MMO just yet. We only have small 16v16 player counts. Massive Multiplayer Online games require high player counts. Right now, unfortunately, Dust is only a broken FPS. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1563
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1
The MMO aspect is what is supposed to make it unique- the FPS aspect is at least good enough that putting it on the back burner won't hurt the game. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
721
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Awesome awesome original post
Its not a debate when everyone agrees with you  |
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
358
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dust does need to evolve to more than just a lobby shooter.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind if things were a little more fluid as far as aiming/movement are concerned.
(this isn't me saying FPS B4 MMO, this is me saying FPS <> MMO) |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1929
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Posted - 2013.06.13 18:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:DUST is neither. It's EVE with guns. I refuse to call it an FPS when there is no skill involved in playing it.
And for the inevitable first response - TACTICS ARE NOT SKILL. lol! You're trying to tell us that wiggling your tiny joystick is more skillful than knowing when to wiggle it? lol!
Might as well just click a button like in EVE to shoot. It pretty much is exactly the same level of engagement as DUST atm.
Oh and knowing when to move is tactics, not skill. EVEtards and no standards. |
Zahle Undt
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
186
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Posted - 2013.06.13 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:DUST is neither. It's EVE with guns. I refuse to call it an FPS when there is no skill involved in playing it.
And for the inevitable first response - TACTICS ARE NOT SKILL.
I don't think I can agree with you there. I have sh!te FPS skills so I die alot and my steadily declining KDR sits at around 1. You guys have solid FPS skills and do a lot of killing of me, honestly I think FPS skills make a big difference. Now if you mean to say that your FPS skills are diminished because of things like lag and crappy hit detection I can understand that |
Zahle Undt
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
186
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Awesome awesome original post Its not a debate when everyone agrees with you
Well, to be honest I expected more of a split with the number of MAG vets we have saying "fix the gunplay!" and the more Eve/RPG amongst us saying "add more MMO!". Like I said, it all needs work, its just a matter of what needs to come first. |
IceStormers
Forsaken Immortals
35
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
it needs a reason to play this over BF4 and other upcoming FPS games
at the same time giving us a player market wont make this an ok game
add in the pve to collect resources, manufacturing, link to EvE, balance then sure it will be a good game
but it needs to be fun first
i dont want an FPS game if i did i would not be here, but i do want to see some fps items appear in the game which are fun
1. Afking killed off
2. more interesting game modes - would like to see assault/defence game modes
3. Modules etc sorted out Scopes, armor / shield options to work, full racial dropsuits - balanced
4. Public PVE
All this needs to be with balance and optimizations in mind
then after these basic items back to some FPS clean up before getting deep into MMO side again linking the markets |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1590
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Posted - 2013.06.13 20:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
If you judge Dust 514 on it's FPS elements, it's a complete disaster.
If you judge Dust 514 on it's MMO elements... it's a complete disaster.
It's got a long climb ahead of it before it could be considered even passively decent in either category. |
Schalac 17
Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing
262
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Posted - 2013.06.13 21:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
The MMO aspect should be secondary to making a great FPS. Without the FPS part down pat, then there will never be an MMO side to go with it. Why you people would want more depth built on broken mechanics is beyond me. CCP should focus all of their energy on making a solid core FPS with all of the options, mechanics and gear that comes with it. One month into release and heavies and scout suits are still missing, yet they want to add another class of suit with the commando. Weapons are still being "worked on" and the options page isn't even fully functional. You take 5 steps in any map and you get stuck on something. Hit detection and network problems are atrocious. But PVE and a player market is going to fix all of that right..... right. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
324
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
So the only MMO thing you mentioned was unlocks....
Pretty sure every FPS on the planet has those.
Also if being the only FPS MMO is what sets it apart from other FPSes what sets it apart from other MMOs?
Oh yeah being an FPS is what sets it apart.
...
And yes i just turned the heart of your argument into scrap.
It was kind a weird argument in the first place though...why would you want anyone to leave your beloved game to go play some other fps game when the problem with your game is that no one plays it?
Are all New Edan fan-boys this dense? |
Commander Tuna
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
57
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
MMO is such an overused term. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
325
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Posted - 2013.06.13 22:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:DUST is neither. It's EVE with guns. I refuse to call it an FPS when there is no skill involved in playing it.
And for the inevitable first response - TACTICS ARE NOT SKILL. lol! You're trying to tell us that wiggling your tiny joystick is more skillful than knowing when to wiggle it? lol!
Yeah. You can be the best aim in the world in BF3 but that won't help you if you do not take cover do not flank do not have a good sense of where the enemy is and where he is going or likely to be going.
I should note that Dust compared to other FPSs, at least by watching the player base, is on the low end of the tactics scale.
Unless you think running around in the open bunny hopping around and letting your high SP carry you is a tactic. |
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