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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 977	Posted - 2013.06.12 01:44:00 - [1] - Quote at the time of this writing we have seen a leak, unintentional or not of the new ferroscale and reactive armor plates that CCP is introducing into the game soon The statistics pretty much prove that while CCP has repeatedly stated they intend to fix armor tanking they were not listening to the feedback they were given. To whit: Stats: Complex ferroscale plate: 60 HP CPU 39 PG14 Complex reactive: 45 hp, 2hp/s, 4% movement penalty CPU 24 PG 9 As we can see there seems to be a bit of disparity between what has been said by the players pertaining to the problem and what CCP is doing to FIX the problem. Our current iteration (which I hope changes) shows the two new armor modules that CCP have been hamming up are not only harder to fit, but provide less than half of the benefit of the parent modules. "But Breakin," you say, "shield extenders only give 66 HP at the complex level! Why should plates have more?" Good question! And I answer: Because even with 4 armor reps eating all of your low slots your heavy suit reps at 2/3rds the speed of an unaugmented shield suit with no buffer. Armor has no native regen. Armor takes 150% damage from explosive weapons wheras shields take what, 110% from scramblers and lasers? these plates are a joke, and a bad one to boot. they provide LESS than half the benefit of a single armor plate or rep of the standard type, complex level. As the ball here bounces for the low price of assloads more fitting cost you too can have half the utility of 2 plates and 2 reps at complex level in your low slots. I'm rather disgusted with CCP if this is the way they intend to "Fix armor tanking," because this setup provides no measurable benefit over what we already have. If armor has to be dependent upon Logi to survive then armor either needs a very large buffer tank to justify it versus the drawbacks, or you need to bite the bullet, drop shield recharge to almost nothing and introduce a handheld shield transporter so that shield tanks are equally dependant upon Logi to balance them out. This is not even CLOSE to fixing the problem. This is balancing new modules to maintain the status quo when it is well known that the status quo is absolute trash. Right now minmatar and caldari suits are the only ones that are fully usable because of the way shields work versus armor. There is no advantage to armor tanking right now and these new modules maintain the gap rather than doing anything to mitigate that gap.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 926	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:13:00 - [2] - Quote I'll sign this. +1
Earl Crushinator Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 47	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:31:00 - [3] - Quote 'disgusted' seems a little harsh. Take a breath. As an armor tanker I am interested.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 980	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:46:00 - [4] - Quote the source was their new trailer. it shows the new plates.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1140	Posted - 2013.06.12 02:55:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: If armor has to be dependent upon Logi to survive then armor either needs a very large buffer tank to justify it versus the drawbacks, or you need to bite the bullet, drop shield recharge to almost nothing and introduce a handheld shield transporter so that shield tanks are equally dependant upon Logi to balance them out. This I believe is the heart of the matter and I unfortunately must concur with your assessment that the new plates (assuming the stats seen are the same as those upon release) do not effectively address the above concept. Further the issue raised regarding slots has not been touched on whatsoever by the addition of these new plates. At present there are more Low Power mods to choose from than High Power meaning that the on balance tactical 'cost' of fitting an armor tank is higher than fitting a shield tank. Even were one to content that damage mods are so valuable as to be the equal counter point to Cardiac Regulators, Cardiac Stimulants, CPU Upgrades, Kinetic Catalyzers, PG Upgrades, Profile Dampeners, Range Amplifiers, Shield Regulators it still leaves the biasing situation of shield tanking possessing fittings options drawn from both the high and low powered mod pools while armor is restricted exclusively to low powered lots for fitting. Granted if you can put all our tank needs into the Low Power slots you could stack damage mods, but how practical is that? Let's look at the Amarr Logi, 3 Highs, 3 Lows 97 PG with relevant skills maxed. Complex Light Damage Modifier 68 CPU 9PG x3 = 204 CPU 27 PG Complex Reactive Plates 36 CPU 15 PG x3 = 108 CPU 45 PG Fittings Totals = 312/491 CPU 72/87 PG That leaves 179 CPU 15 PG to fit a Light Weapon, Sidearm, Grenade, and 3 Equipment slots. To be fair a bit more CPU could be squeezed in by the last level of the related fittings skill I don't have yet, and the cost of a Light Weapon could be reduced via another 5 skill levels, and a bit trimmed off the cost of both Grenades and Sidearms the same way but even with all skills at level 5 it'll be a tight fit and off the top of my head I can't think of a way to do a fully proto fit on these remaining slots (can anyone else?). Is the message then that +30% damage (minus effects of stacking penalty) and 135 HP armor with 6 HP/s on board rep with a 12% movement penalty (possibly reduced by stacking), is so valuable a stat block that it justifies the inability to complete a full fit even with maximum possible SP invested into all related skills (a total SP investment that off the top of my head I believe comes in at over 14 million SP) and dismissing all the other tactical options sacrificed to fit only plates and damage mods in lows/highs. Looking at the Remaining characters count it seems this post has more to address than space to do it in so for now I'll just give a summery of the above. Summery: New plates, while useful, do not address the disparity between armor and shield tanking in either net values (with CPU/PG considered) or slot constraints. Further they do nothing to touch on the internal balance issues with the current plates and seem to directly support neither balancing philosophies presented in the quote above. If CCP subscribes to a third, different, balance philosophy then I'd ask them to share it so we can both evaluate the mods in their intended context and evaluate the context itself within the reality of current game play. Cheers, Cross EDIT: Source for new info.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 926	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:22:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the source was their new trailer. it shows the new plates. thanks, I had literally just found It and started going through some numbers 2 complex reactive plates +90 hp +4hps 8% penalty 48cpu 18pg 1 enhanced armor plate and 1 complex repper +87 hp +5hps 5% penalty 65 cpu 11 pg Hardly game changing, imo. I'm hard pressed to find a combination of armor plates or reppers that makes the reactive plate look worth while for anything but giving low-armor shield tankers a the benifits of both a plate and a repper while leaving room open for another regulator, biotics or whatever else. 60 hp isn't worth 39 cpu and 14 pg. I'm sure even the most dedicated armor tanker would get a better use out of that low slot, let alone the SP to go from lvl 1 armor plating to lvl 5. Sticking with the basic armor plate seems like a no-brainer. unless one of these are high slot, this isn't doing anything to help armor tankers, but also giving shield tanked suits a more compact way to boost their armor for when their shields drop. this is just making it worse. My suggestion - Add just a bit more HP to the new plates (10%) and bump the complex reactive reps to 3hps with the advanced reactive at 2 hps. Even that meager boost you'll have people being able to armor tank more effectively, I'd also suggest lowering the ferroscale's PG usage as well. I find it hard to believe that the armor plating should take up more PG than the shield extender.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 194	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:26:00 - [7] - Quote I see the problem here so slightly buff this module nothing to extreme plus skills might factor in and buff the modules at level 5.
Spergin McBadposter Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 53	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:36:00 - [8] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: unless one of these are high slot, this isn't doing anything to help armor tankers, but also giving shield tanked suits a more compact way to boost their armor for when their shields drop. this is just making it worse. I just checked again and both types are low slot modules, but reactive plates being high slot modules would push them from terrible to amazing.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1142	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:42:00 - [9] - Quote Spergin McBadposter wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: unless one of these are high slot, this isn't doing anything to help armor tankers, but also giving shield tanked suits a more compact way to boost their armor for when their shields drop. this is just making it worse. I just checked again and both types are low slot modules, but reactive plates being high slot modules would push them from terrible to amazing. Reactive Plates would also be exactly the mod to put in the High Slot as well based on an inverse mirror of the current Shield mod offerings.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Unclaimed. 133	Posted - 2013.06.12 03:50:00 - [10] - Quote One thing to remember is that while armor does regenerate slower then sheilds, they do it 24/7. shields you have to be 1. not being shot at 2. wait long enough in cover for it to start Though also armor reps require you to fit a mod, where as shield don't and can just pack extenders. I do agree with the topic author on increased fitting for one type of complex armor mod, that should change.

Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 927	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:01:00 - [11] - Quote Patoman Radiant wrote: One thing to remember is that while armor does regenerate slower then sheilds, they do it 24/7. shields you have to be 1. not being shot at 2. wait long enough in cover for it to start Though also armor reps require you to fit a mod, where as shield don't and can just pack extenders. I do agree with the topic author on increased fitting for one type of complex armor mod, that should change. I've tried armor tanking. To have the sort of reps that can have a noticeable impact in a fight you have to pretty much fill your low slots, therefore sacrificing any buffer. I was hoping reactive plates would do more to mitigate that, but 45 hp is 1.5 rounds from a gek worth of buffer. that's even calculating the 10% penalty to armor and not factoring in damage mods. Calculate the buffer in extra rounds you can take. Armor tanking is will still be broken.
Text Grant Planetary Response Organisation 12	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:03:00 - [12] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Spergin McBadposter wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: unless one of these are high slot, this isn't doing anything to help armor tankers, but also giving shield tanked suits a more compact way to boost their armor for when their shields drop. this is just making it worse. I just checked again and both types are low slot modules, but reactive plates being high slot modules would push them from terrible to amazing. Reactive Plates would also be exactly the mod to put in the High Slot as well based on an inverse mirror of the current Shield mod offerings. Yes
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1143	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:09:00 - [13] - Quote One quick additional note, regarding slot layout. The other non-tank items offered on each slot type hold significant implications that are frequently not discussed. There could be an entire thread comparing mods and their placement (it's almost like there actually is ) but for brevity I'll go straight to the heart of the matter. CPU Upgrades, PG Upgrades. These mods allow Mercs to give up a slot for the sake of higher fittings values in PG or CPU, and can only be fit into Low Power slots. This creates a fundamental imbalance within game wide fittings by creating a situation where mercs who Shield Tank can augment their PG/CPU if needed to fit a full tank +weapon, nades et al but those mercs who Armor Tank are left with only the stats on suit use (in both cases SP can improve these values but it does nothing to alter the comparison regarding mods). In addition to one of the new plates being made a High Power mod (honestly it should be the Reactive Plates) the PG upgrade should be moved into a High Powered slot as well. Shield Tank requires CPU heavy mods and the CPU Upgrade would remain Low Power to provide shield tankers fittings options while the PG Upgrade being in the High Power position would to the same for armor tankers. If for some reason moving the PG Upgrade to a High Power position is viewed as too big a change, or too detrimental to some other aspect of the game then there's still a simple solution add a version of the Power Diagnostic Units from EVE (and the Dust vehicle mod section ) as a High Power mod. This mod would grant some additional PG but at a lessor rate than the PG Upgrades mod, it would also give a small buff to shields and shield recharge (or really any two f the shield stats whatever works best for proper balance). This would create a slightly better set of options for hybrid tanking from the armor side which would be in line with the new hybrid options offered to shield tankers buy the Ferroscale Plates and elevate the PG hardcap that currently exists. 0.02 ISK Cross
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 928	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:20:00 - [14] - Quote I should probably make it clear that even though we are having criticisms of mosules that aren't even out yet, it's because you have a great deal of people who are really interested in helping you test and balance this game. CCP, please let us know if these are old numbers and that they've changed since then. If you could confirm what these numbers are we'll be able to help by telling you what we want and need out of armor mods. Keeping mum on the numbers is just giving you more work later. Help us help you, CCP.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1143	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:25:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Patoman Radiant wrote: One thing to remember is that while armor does regenerate slower then sheilds, they do it 24/7. shields you have to be 1. not being shot at 2. wait long enough in cover for it to start Though also armor reps require you to fit a mod, where as shield don't and can just pack extenders. I do agree with the topic author on increased fitting for one type of complex armor mod, that should change. I've tried armor tanking. To have the sort of reps that can have a noticeable impact in a fight you have to pretty much fill your low slots, therefore sacrificing any buffer. I was hoping reactive plates would do more to mitigate that, but 45 hp is 1.5 rounds from a gek worth of buffer. that's even calculating the 10% penalty to armor and not factoring in damage mods. Calculate the buffer in extra rounds you can take. Armor tanking is will still be broken. ^This While it is true, and should not be dismissed, that Armor Tank allows for reps even under fire the actual value of those reps must be considered as well. An Amarr Proto Logi with max skills (in Logi, Racial, and all Armor Tank skills) will gain ~20 HP/s when running 2x Complex Rep mods, and that's including all skill/suit buffs. Put another way they can tank slightly over 1/4th of a TAR bullet per second and are only able to do so as long as their HP buffer holds out (which more or less requires the fitting of armor plates). Point being that in most cases an armor tanked player will also have to retreat to cover in order to survive, and that's for a proto tanked dedicated armor suit with max skills. Yes there are ratified instances where the in battle rep may be enough to survive but that's closer to "Russian Roulette" than a tactically reliable feature, and we've still yet to touch on the effects of Alpha damage like that from Grenades (which do bonus damage to armor thus further pushing their likelihood to OHK). The main value of Armor reps, over Shield recharge at present is that armor gains a slightly higher chance of survival as they run for cover because even the best on board reps do not allow an armor tanker to stand in the fight for even 1-2 seconds longer against the base value of proto weapons (i.e. excluding damage mods, skill buffs, head shots etc which push these totals even higher). Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1143	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:26:00 - [16] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I should probably make it clear that even though we are having criticisms of mosules that aren't even out yet, it's because you have a great deal of people who are really interested in helping you test and balance this game. CCP, please let us know if these are old numbers and that they've changed since then. If you could confirm what these numbers are we'll be able to help by telling you what we want and need out of armor mods. Keeping mum on the numbers is just giving you more work later. Help us help you, CCP. +1 Very much so. ~Cross
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 987	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:39:00 - [17] - Quote another problem is the Buffer vs. regen theory. Yes armor can rep under fire but not enough to significantly increase survivability. Shield regen can retreat (much faster) and be recovered enough to continue fighting rapidly. They are a skirmisher versus a balls-to-the-wall wade in and smash style of combat. Unfortunately as we have all seen wade in and smash is suicidal but if you retreat you have to have logistic support to recover quickly. Not only is shields more time-efficient it is much more resource-efficient. a rep gun takes a shooter off the field. Shields do not need reps, they need a little time. If we want to make them equivalent then we need to do something. either add a bigger buffer or load in more efficient armor rep numbers. even a 25% boost to base armor reps would cover the disparity in recovery solidly. or an increase in base buffer could make the suits survivable. Either change can easily bring armor to competitive levels,and competitive levels are what armor NEEDS to keep up with shields even if they are slower the only way to compensate for the weaknesses of armor is to allow armor to take a rather large beating before it buckles and you die.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 194	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:48:00 - [18] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I should probably make it clear that even though we are having criticisms of mosules that aren't even out yet, it's because you have a great deal of people who are really interested in helping you test and balance this game. CCP, please let us know if these are old numbers and that they've changed since then. If you could confirm what these numbers are we'll be able to help by telling you what we want and need out of armor mods. Keeping mum on the numbers is just giving you more work later. Help us help you, CCP. I will take back my current hate for CCP (INSERT NAME), who came up with these numbers, if they post real values that are actually PLAYABLE!
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1146	Posted - 2013.06.12 04:52:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: another problem is the Buffer vs. regen theory. Yes armor can rep under fire but not enough to significantly increase survivability. Shield regen can retreat (much faster) and be recovered enough to continue fighting rapidly. They are a skirmisher versus a balls-to-the-wall wade in and smash style of combat. Unfortunately as we have all seen wade in and smash is suicidal but if you retreat you have to have logistic support to recover quickly. Not only is shields more time-efficient it is much more resource-efficient. a rep gun takes a shooter off the field. Shields do not need reps, they need a little time. If we want to make them equivalent then we need to do something. either add a bigger buffer or load in more efficient armor rep numbers. even a 25% boost to base armor reps would cover the disparity in recovery solidly. or an increase in base buffer could make the suits survivable. Either change can easily bring armor to competitive levels,and competitive levels are what armor NEEDS to keep up with shields even if they are slower the only way to compensate for the weaknesses of armor is to allow armor to take a rather large beating before it buckles and you die. Agreed and based on sustaining game diversity I'd say it has to be Buffer > On board reps. Granted a buff that did a bit of both wouldn't be a bad thing either but the ratio needs to be weighted towards buffer. Reasons for this, It maintains a distinction between the way each type of tank grants eHP, Without higher buffer slower moving armor tankers are still at as much risk of being OKH'ed as they are now (even if reps were buffed) Higher buffer promotes the tactical value of Logi/Equipment support in the form of Repair Tools and Repper Hives. Heightening on board armor reps to shield equivalent levels diminishes/eliminates the value of these Equipment mods thus diminishing the validity and frequency of support roles on the field. In addition I think the internal scaling of both mod types (i.e. armor and shields) needs to be looked at with an eye to relative eHP (note, eHP not raw HP as buffer should be higher in that regard) gained per CPU/PG spent. While shields should draw more heavily on CPU and armor more heavily on PG the overall fittings cost per ~eHP gained should maintain parity between the two lines or we're likely to be facing an imbalance even if all other things are properly in alignment. Cheers, Cross
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 989	Posted - 2013.06.12 05:34:00 - [20] - Quote Credit to Hobo On Fire for this idea. I'm just expanding upon it. Split armor tanking into Light, Medium and Heavy plates, rather like we have the 60mm, 120mm, and 180 mm plates for vehicles corresponding to the vehicles they are supposed to go on. Light plates are intended for light suits, medium to medium and heavy to donut-chasing fatties. This would allow CCP to tailor the plates to the role rather than try this one-size-fits all thing that is not working. (credit for this goes to Hobo) Further i think plates should all provide the same HP buffer. but the difference between standard and complex is the movement penalty being lowered. complex plates, being made of more advanced materiels, should allow the suits to move FASTER by affording the same protection while alleviating mass. this would allow CCP to tailor buffer plates for scouts and heavies rather than for medium frames as seems to be the obvious balance point for armor tanking thus far. Further I believe that armor repair units could safely be altered to repair 1%, 2% and 3% of total armor HP respectively without causing them to be completely overpowered. this would create a more even distribution of repair rates and maintain some parity between fits. further I would remove the bonus to 5%/level HP rep bonus and replace it with fitting bonus the way it used to be to keep them from spiking to ******** levels of repair. The reactive and ferroscale plates are a joke. a complex plate with less protection than a complex shield extender. This is a bad joke on a tank style that is buffer dependent. Don't release this, it's insulting, because it at no point addresses the balance between tanking with armor versus shields. ferroscale slightly addresses the mobility issue at a cost of being less effective than the complex shield extenders. Right now armor tanking successfully requires buffer fits because mobility and regen aren't there. And buffer make agility and regen proportionally worse so the disparity only widens. stamina penalty makes more sense than a mobility penalty if mobility is as much of a problem as it is. I can suck up running for shorter distances if it means I can duck behind cover.

Azri Sarum 843 Boot Camp 32	Posted - 2013.06.12 07:59:00 - [21] - Quote hmm, % based armor repair... i like that idea Breakin Stuff. Probably hard to balance for heavies, but interesting. I'm going to hope ccp gets back from their little break, refreshed and bright eyed and looks at what they have done and realizes their mistake. If not, and those are the numbers they are going to use... "Help me CCP Fozzie, you're my only hope"
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 931	Posted - 2013.06.12 13:54:00 - [22] - Quote Changing armor rep mods to a percentage instead of just a base number of points could be brutal. Imagine a heavy that gets 12% of it's hitpoints back a second. that's about 48 hp/s. What we need are armor hardeners for infantry. Put this in the high slot and armor will actually be a tool worth using as you'll be improving EHP and the effectiveness of armor reps by letting us add more resistance.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1404	Posted - 2013.06.12 14:01:00 - [23] - Quote Link Cosgar wrote: Without even reading the entire thread or pulling up numbers, the issue with these ne plates and armor tanking in general boils down to one sentence: Shield tankers will always benefit from armor tanking more than armor tankers themselves. We have armor tanking assaut suits with no bonuses to armor, shields without downsides and the majority of gear that could benefit armor tankers enough to be on par with shields are in low slots. Unless there's a way that these new modules benefit armor more than shields, since they already have a practically free buffer, it's just going to be something else shield tankers can just do better. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but assigning these plates to high slots could be a start.
bacon blaster BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 47	Posted - 2013.06.12 14:54:00 - [24] - Quote +1 You're more right than you know, and let me explain why. I am a former heavy. I got into the heavy late in chromosome and I loved it. Then, Uprising hit. When all of the heavies were complaining that their hmg was unusable, they were not kidding. I was using the MH-82, and the gun was worthless at any range, but really had no ability to put any dps on anything beyond 10 meters, if that. The spread was too wide. Eventually, ccp put the damage back to where it should have been, but they widen the spread again (I think) so the gun was still unable to put much damage on anything beyond 10-12 meters. This means that even guys with shotguns were able to out dps me from beyond my range, and I was hopelessly outranged by basically everything else. You combine this with the heavy's vague excuse of mobility, and it really isn't useable with an hmg. Thing is, it took a LONG ass time for ccp to do anything, and when they did, it took a step backward as well. CCP responded to things regarding the heavy in a bad manner that didn't really fix the hmg or the suit really all that much. Then, they buffed the ** out of lavs, and made them a bit op. They've dragged their feet and generaly avoided fixing things players have said were broken, and then when they do "fix" something, they just break it in a different way, or do some sort of a counter balance to keep it from being usable. All of this combines to convince me that, unless the entire community is in uproar, ccp will ignore the ** out of a problem and generally not listen to what the players actually say.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 932	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:39:00 - [25] - Quote I'll bump this.
Meeko Fent Mercenary incorperated 52	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:54:00 - [26] - Quote I Read the Bit on the Reactive armor Plate, and I saw 2 hp/s. Does that Mean that I can us and armor Plate to regen an armor Plate? Da Faq? So, if what I understood is true, that means 2 Reactive Plates Heal 4 hp/s, equivalent to 2 armor repers, whilst providing 90 hp buffer bonus, which is better then 1 Enhanced Plate Sure that that is a Complex Module, but how long does it tank to get Complex Mods when you are pouring SP only into that skill? Id say 2-3 Weeks of Passive SP+ the Various amount of active SP you get. Why use an Armor Reper when I can use Complex Reactive? Why Use Plates to Get a Buffer when Adding more Reactives to get the same buffer, while not having to use a Slot for Armor Reper? My Problem isn't that the armor will still be inadequate to Shields, Its that these will make the other Options less Viable. Like the TAR, why use the Breach Variant when you could just Get the Same effect from the TAR. Just a Slight note.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 218	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:59:00 - [27] - Quote Yay for copy/pasting. And grade school level math. Paste: 2x Complex Reactive Plates CPU: 72 PG: 32 HP: 90 Rep: 4hp/s Movement penalty: 8% 1 Enhanced Armor Plate and 1 Complex Armor Repairer CPU: 65 PG: 17 HP: 87 Rep: 5hp/s Movement penalty: 5% Pretty laughable.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 221	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:03:00 - [28] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: I Read the Bit on the Reactive armor Plate, and I saw 2 hp/s. Does that Mean that I can us and armor Plate to regen an armor Plate? Da Faq? So, if what I understood is true, that means 2 Reactive Plates Heal 4 hp/s, equivalent to 2 armor repers, whilst providing 90 hp buffer bonus, which is better then 1 Enhanced Plate Sure that that is a Complex Module, but how long does it tank to get Complex Mods when you are pouring SP only into that skill? Id say 2-3 Weeks of Passive SP+ the Various amount of active SP you get. Why use an Armor Reper when I can use Complex Reactive? Why Use Plates to Get a Buffer when Adding more Reactives to get the same buffer, while not having to use a Slot for Armor Reper? My Problem isn't that the armor will still be inadequate to Shields, Its that these will make the other Options less Viable. Like the TAR, why use the Breach Variant when you could just Get the Same effect from the TAR. Just a Slight note. Except using an enhanced plate and a complex armor repper gives you 87 HP and 5 hp/s at a cost of 5% speed, 65CPU/17PG, and 2 low slots. Using two complex reactive plates gives 90 HP and 4 HP/s at a cost of 8% speed, 72CPU/32PG, and 2 low slots.


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