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Rough Galaxy
S.e.V.e.N.
6
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Posted - 2013.06.11 17:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently the only way to try advanced gear is to spend the sp to use it. The problem here is that you have no idea if it is something you will like or that will work with your play style. Regardless, you are locked into having that SP spent on something. This quickly leads to having SP spread all over in places you don't want it. I think this could be alleviated in 2 ways.
1: Purchasable Respec. Put an isk price on a respec. Like so many other MMO's sometime people want to swap up what they do and don't want to wait a month or 2 to do it.
2: 24 hour grace period. Let us be able to put points into something, try it, and decide if it's something we want to do. If not, have a button to refund all SP spent in the last 24 hours. This option is a lot more friendly to new players as well. This would let people trial the gear they are really looking at (like a logi LAV or a heavy suit, or a new speed sniper) |
Somin Krais
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
79
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Posted - 2013.06.11 17:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Or..
Change the academy so that SP is LOCKED and CANNOT be applied until you finish BUT make sure that the academy gives ample training and time to get used to each weapon/role. These paths can be optional, but the real problem here is that new players just don't get how SP works and which role they prefer until they get a change to dive in.
That way, by time academy is over, and SP gained becomes unlocked, there are less chances for someone to make a mistake and spread SP all over the place and ask for a respec.
If you don't like the locking idea, then just give people a one time option of respecing after they "graduate". I personally like the more in depth training idea.. but eh. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
2650
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 18:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP made it very clear there will be no more respecs. If you read the sticky threads, if you follow up on the dev blogs postd on www.dust514.com and even ask the devs, they will tell you there will be no more respecs. CCP is still processing left over petitions for respecs that were submitted and filed before the 31st of May (due to a major screw up in the skill tree). Beyond those, you are short out of luck and must face the reality that every choice you make from here on out will have a permanent consequence. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
494
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Posted - 2013.06.11 18:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
The 24 hour grace period avoids most of the issues a respec causes, it needs a cost connected so people don't just use it every day to never lock there points.
Maybe a cooldown of few days before another the reset is usable again. This would mean they could either not spend any sp for days to keep it free, or they would have to lock some of the sp. This would let somebody try out a new weapon and reset it if they didn't like it, but prevent people abusing the system for flavor of the month builds.
The skill spikes and clusters should also help this, planned booster that raises the level of a trained skill or gives a set of skills in an area for a limited time.
There is no level cap like most mmo, so less need for respecs. You want to see fireworks post about a respec on the eve fourm, it will be filled with text walls of opposition quickly. The grace period idea bypass most of the reasons they normally give though.
For acadamey, a free graduation respec might be better then locking out spending the sp. Lets them try more then locking it out, and lets them make mistake when it is still fixable. Make them wait to spend sp then give it all at once is asking for mistakes to be made with new player thinking they have so much sp. |
Rough Galaxy
S.e.V.e.N.
6
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Posted - 2013.06.11 19:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:The 24 hour grace period avoids most of the issues a respec causes, it needs a cost connected so people don't just use it every day to never lock there points.
Maybe a cooldown of few days before another the reset is usable again. This would mean they could either not spend any sp for days to keep it free, or they would have to lock some of the sp. This would let somebody try out a new weapon and reset it if they didn't like it, but prevent people abusing the system for flavor of the month builds.
The skill spikes and clusters should also help this, planned booster that raises the level of a trained skill or gives a set of skills in an area for a limited time.
There is no level cap like most mmo, so less need for respecs. You want to see fireworks post about a respec on the eve fourm, it will be filled with text walls of opposition quickly. The grace period idea bypass most of the reasons they normally give though.
For acadamey, a free graduation respec might be better then locking out spending the sp. Lets them try more then locking it out, and lets them make mistake when it is still fixable. Make them wait to spend sp then give it all at once is asking for mistakes to be made with new player thinking they have so much sp.
I like the limitation. say once a week or something. that means that once you capped your sp, you can dump it into something new and experiment for a day to find out if it's a direction you want to go or not. |
Somin Krais
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
82
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Posted - 2013.06.11 21:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Personally, I don't think there should be a respec even though I'll admit I took one when it was offered.
The real problem is proper education on how things will be going forward. If new players had a better understanding of everything the game has to offer, and a way to choose without feeling that they got screwed for making an uneducated choice --which rarely yields exactly what someone wants-- I think it would be easier for new players to get into the game, and stay in the game.
As it is now, I can see how someone can go through academy, get murdered each match, only to find out that they F'd up in SP placement when through, would decide not to stick with the game. This is the real issue that needs to be addressed. |
Rough Galaxy
S.e.V.e.N.
6
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Posted - 2013.06.12 15:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Somin Krais wrote:Personally, I don't think there should be a respec even though I'll admit I took one when it was offered.
The real problem is proper education on how things will be going forward. If new players had a better understanding of everything the game has to offer, and a way to choose without feeling that they got screwed for making an uneducated choice --which rarely yields exactly what someone wants-- I think it would be easier for new players to get into the game, and stay in the game.
As it is now, I can see how someone can go through academy, get murdered each match, only to find out that they F'd up in SP placement when through, would decide not to stick with the game. This is the real issue that needs to be addressed.
I've been playing for a while and truth be told, I STILL don't know how half the stuff in the game ACTUALLY works because I have to spend the SP in order to use the equipment so I can test it out. I did some research on Logi LAV. looked like a solid support option. Piled my respec (3mil sp) into caldari Logi Lav and supporting skills and hit the battlefield, only to learn that Shield transporters earn 0 WP, the driver has no protection (should at least be protected while there are shields left), and the built in infantry module has to lock on to all the targets instead of just being a shield recharging pulse within a radius of the vehicle. This is information that is not in the description of the vehicle or the related module. Effectively I spent 3 mil sp on a taxi. If there was a 24 hour grace period, I would still be out the isk for the vehicles/modules but at least I could have put my sp into something more useful.
Note that unlike the gallente Logi LAV with remote armour reppers, Shield transporters earn no WP and you can't get Guardian points either for healing when your target gets a kill. Information I didn't have until AFTER I already spent my SP. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
2672
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
I still don't want to see any respec system because this has three negative side effects which are a big deal to the inhabitants of New Eden.
1. It cheapens the SP to the point where it becomes pointless to have more SP. Most of specialists need only about 10-11 million SP to go proto on the gear they need for that specialty. In my case, nova knives. If respecs were to be allowed, why should I bother training up to 200 million SP in ten years like the Eve players if I only need 10 million SP in a half a year?
2. It defeats the whole purpose of having a meaningful choice. To have your choices mean something, you need permanent consequences. Without consequences, your choices mean nothing.
3. Respecs devalue your accomplishments. I felt really accomplished when I finally specced into the nova knives to their full potential after grinding many months of matches. If respecs were to be allowed, then my accomplishment will mean nothing because then anyone can just swap SP around at will.
Knowing how CCP personally wants every player to have a meaningful choice and live in a harsh universe, I don't see a respec happening in the foreseeable future. |
Rough Galaxy
S.e.V.e.N.
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I still don't want to see any respec system because this has three negative side effects which are a big deal to the inhabitants of New Eden.
1. It cheapens the SP to the point where it becomes pointless to have more SP. Most of specialists need only about 10-11 million SP to go proto on the gear they need for that specialty. In my case, nova knives. If respecs were to be allowed, why should I bother training up to 200 million SP in ten years like the Eve players if I only need 10 million SP in a half a year?
2. It defeats the whole purpose of having a meaningful choice. To have your choices mean something, you need permanent consequences. Without consequences, your choices mean nothing.
3. Respecs devalue your accomplishments. I felt really accomplished when I finally specced into the nova knives to their full potential after grinding many months of matches. If respecs were to be allowed, then my accomplishment will mean nothing because then anyone can just swap SP around at will.
Knowing how CCP personally wants every player to have a meaningful choice and live in a harsh universe, I don't see a respec happening in the foreseeable future.
My initial point was more so the 24 hour option. Not for full respec, but limited redistribution. Remember you can't really trial advanced equipment. and a lot of people want to "try before they buy" as it were. For instance. Logi LAV's earn very little to no WP right now (outside of death taxi). Didn't know that when I specced into them. I would love to still use them, but I would rather have been able to reverse that decision and spec into something else, then earn SP to spec into LLAV's once they were adjusted by CCP and more worth my time. Now I'm stuck running around in militia gear, getting raped by proto's all the time because the thing I specced into is kinda broken right now. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
38
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Posted - 2013.06.12 17:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
The reason you would want to get up to 200mil sp is so you wouldnt have to respec to swap roles, duh. ur first point is moot
i have a very good suggestion reguarding respecs and how they should be implemented go check it out. |
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
2672
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
It doesn't matter anyways whether I'm wrong or right or if my points were moot. CCP has clearly stated there will be no more respecs. I have a copy of their email stating exactly that. I'm pretty sure you have that copy as well if you submitted a respec petition prior to the 31st of last month. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
657
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
There are militia versions of most things in the game - use them to 'try before you buy'.
Even if your 24 grace period idea was implemented, you say you want to be able to try out advanced gear - that means you'd have to put around 100k SP into lvls 1 and 2 already so if you decide upon trying it, the advanced stuff isn't what you want, you might be able to get 200k of your SP back but you've still wasted 100k you can't get back. So your solution doesn't really solve the problem anyway. |
Rough Galaxy
S.e.V.e.N.
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 14:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:There are militia versions of most things in the game - use them to 'try before you buy'.
Even if your 24 grace period idea was implemented, you say you want to be able to try out advanced gear - that means you'd have to put around 100k SP into lvls 1 and 2 already so if you decide upon trying it, the advanced stuff isn't what you want, you might be able to get 200k of your SP back but you've still wasted 100k you can't get back. So your solution doesn't really solve the problem anyway.
Edit - additionally, what you're really complaining about is the lack of information available ingame; if this gets fixed, you'll be less likely to make choices you later regret.
It's true. The lack of information is one reason I want something like a 24 hour to be implemented. but I would like to point out, that there is no militia logi LAV or DS, the is no militia assault DS either. The advanced gear has stuff that militia stuff simply doesn't. And there is also a lot of equipment that there are no militia versions of.
Information about an item or vehicle is fine, but you still won't know for sure until you actually get hands on with them.
I would be more than willing to retract my suggestion if they would provide us with a sort of VR sim room where we can test out fits and equipment of ANY level with our friends. Of course there would be no ISK or SP reward for sim play. That would be more than enough for me. Even better. let us use a sim room to artificially adjust our skills so we can really get an idea how things will be. eg; a tank with advanced plating with and without skills in PG/cpu so we can tell how we can fit modules into vehicles and suits as well. a sort of EFT (eve fitting tool) for Dust with a testing range. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1600
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 15:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
A big part of the problem is that the game is still beta quality, with lots of missing and broken pieces such as the Caldari LLAV and its useless Shield Transfer module.
That has people skill into something only to find out that it is useless, or have them skill into a racial variant other than the one they want simply because the one they want isn't in the game yet.
EVE is stable and complete so it doesn't have those issues. You really can't compare the two at this point. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1558
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 15:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here's my respec idea:
The first respec will be free. However, every respec after that will have an increasing cost (to a certain point) of... SP This will make sure that respecs aren't P2W, and that the cost to repec is equally high for every financial "situation" on dust. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
664
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 16:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rough Galaxy wrote:Django Quik wrote:There are militia versions of most things in the game - use them to 'try before you buy'.
Even if your 24 grace period idea was implemented, you say you want to be able to try out advanced gear - that means you'd have to put around 100k SP into lvls 1 and 2 already so if you decide upon trying it, the advanced stuff isn't what you want, you might be able to get 200k of your SP back but you've still wasted 100k you can't get back. So your solution doesn't really solve the problem anyway.
Edit - additionally, what you're really complaining about is the lack of information available ingame; if this gets fixed, you'll be less likely to make choices you later regret. It's true. The lack of information is one reason I want something like a 24 hour to be implemented. but I would like to point out, that there is no militia logi LAV or DS, the is no militia assault DS either. The advanced gear has stuff that militia stuff simply doesn't. And there is also a lot of equipment that there are no militia versions of. Information about an item or vehicle is fine, but you still won't know for sure until you actually get hands on with them. I would be more than willing to retract my suggestion if they would provide us with a sort of VR sim room where we can test out fits and equipment of ANY level with our friends. Of course there would be no ISK or SP reward for sim play. That would be more than enough for me. Even better. let us use a sim room to artificially adjust our skills so we can really get an idea how things will be. eg; a tank with advanced plating with and without skills in PG/cpu so we can tell how we can fit modules into vehicles and suits as well. a sort of EFT (eve fitting tool) for Dust with a testing range. So, if they added militia variants of everything and made all information correct and complete, that would go a hell of a long way to negating the need for respecs.
The firing range idea has been considered by CCP and I believe somewhere they said they plan on implementing something like that. It would make a lot of sense and people would have no real recourse for all this shouting for respecs we've been getting. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1603
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 17:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think a test range would go a lot further than militia weapons toward eliminating nasty surprises because it would let you learn how the advanced and prototype versions worked. Sometimes the militia versions are vastly inferior to the higher tiers and Mortimer there appears to be little effective difference, and at information is very useful. |
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