DUST Search - Contact Genades - Sacrificing everything that balances grenades for what?

Poplo Furuya wrote:

Kane Fyea wrote:

Cass Barr wrote:

Kane Fyea wrote:

Cass Barr wrote:

That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not.

And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP.

When did I say every dropsuit is shield tanked? Also how is that relevant to my post at all?

Cause a 500 damage contact grenade can one shot a lot of armor suits, but only do like 300 damage to a shield one.

The only way contact grenades can ever be balanced is if they did low amounts of Hybrid damage. Like 250. And they'd still be a crutch for spray and prayers.

Make contact fluxes... Problem = solved.

More like problems multiplied. Putting aside the fact flux can't even be used in the same capacity as a finisher, the proper response to X being OP isn't to make Y join it in being OP.

As much as I would bask in radiant glee while unleashing contact fluxes on hapless Caldari PRO-Logis it simply wouldn't help the game to have them exist.

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Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 201	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:07:00 - [1] - Quote Isn't the entire point of grenades supposed to be large spike of splash damage balanced out by the need to properly cook or otherwise set up your tosses? Who the **** thought contact grenades fit anywhere into this setup? There's no needing to properly time up your toss to time the enemy passing over a grenade, there's no risk of needing to cook the grenade for the perfect detonation time while risking damaging yourself. EVERYTHING that balances the use of spike of splash damage is just tossed out the window. At attack that used to mean putting your neck on the line for the chance at scoring a large hit on an enemy is turned into an instant kill switch as long as you can simply manage to face the right direction. If you took away the balancing factors from any other weapons would anyone see it as a good idea? Forge guns that don't need to charge up? Swarm launchers that landed hits instantly? Sniper rifles with perfect hip fire accuracy? Messing with a fundamental balancing factor for a weapon isn't just dangerous to the health of the game it's downright stupid.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3597	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:10:00 - [2] - Quote What's amusing is that we already went through this whole thing, CCP just decided that they're too cool for school, I guess.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 251	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:15:00 - [3] - Quote They just need to make contact grenades have a tight blast radius and lower damage then regular grenades. Like 2.0 blast radius for std 2.4 for advanced and 2.8 or 3.0 for complex. The damage should be like 350 std, 400 adv, 450 complex.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1518	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:17:00 - [4] - Quote Could be worse- they could do hybrid damage. I hope I don't give them any ideas....
Brolaire of Asstoria Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:28:00 - [5] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Could be worse- they could do hybrid damage. I hope I don't give them any ideas.... Dear lord no.... If they ever see this looks under the couch for lurking Devs
Poplo Furuya Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:42:00 - [6] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: Forge guns that don't need to charge up? Swarm launchers that landed hits instantly? Sniper rifles with perfect hip fire accuracy? Genius, sir! I have every confidence CCP will get their top men implementing this right away.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1291	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:45:00 - [7] - Quote I still can't believe they nerfed the MD because they thought it was OP but brought in these mother thukkers...
True Adamance Ametat Security Amarr Empire 118	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:46:00 - [8] - Quote Way to make Armour even less viable CCP.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 186	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:56:00 - [9] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: They just need to make contact grenades have a tight blast radius and lower damage then regular grenades. Like 2.0 blast radius for std 2.4 for advanced and 2.8 or 3.0 for complex. The damage should be like 350 std, 425 adv, 500 complex. That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not. And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP.
McFurious BetaMax. CRONOS. 93	Posted - 2013.06.10 23:59:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I still can't believe they nerfed the MD because they thought it was OP but brought in these mother thukkers... Seriously.

Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 254	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:01:00 - [11] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: They just need to make contact grenades have a tight blast radius and lower damage then regular grenades. Like 2.0 blast radius for std 2.4 for advanced and 2.8 or 3.0 for complex. The damage should be like 350 std, 425 adv, 500 complex. That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not. And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP. When did I say every dropsuit is shield tanked? Also how is that relevant to my post at all?
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 208	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:01:00 - [12] - Quote Really, this is what irks me in general about balancing attempts by many game companies, you make the actual skill based weapons take forever to kill anything, but approximation weapons like grenades and the like - BLAMMO! OHKLOL
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 254	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:02:00 - [13] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I still can't believe they nerfed the MD because they thought it was OP but brought in these mother thukkers... The MD will be a lot better once they get the fixes out for it.
Poplo Furuya Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:03:00 - [14] - Quote McFurious wrote: Cosgar wrote: I still can't believe they nerfed the MD because they thought it was OP but brought in these mother thukkers... Seriously. They can be used with ARs. If Mass Drivers were decent that could mean slightly less ARs, might see more weapon variety on the field. Can't be havin' that.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 758	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:04:00 - [15] - Quote All I know is that for every contact grenade, that's one less AV grenade I have to worry about.
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 208	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:06:00 - [16] - Quote Poplo Furuya wrote: McFurious wrote: Cosgar wrote: I still can't believe they nerfed the MD because they thought it was OP but brought in these mother thukkers... Seriously. They can be used with ARs. If Mass Drivers were decent that could mean slightly less ARs, might see more weapon variety on the field. Can't be havin' that. If HMGs were decent, and heavies back to being fully armor tanked, the Massdriver would be the answer to taking them down.
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 351	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:09:00 - [17] - Quote we did a piece on contact grenades here http://tinyurl.com/l3wqn4j
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 186	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:09:00 - [18] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: They just need to make contact grenades have a tight blast radius and lower damage then regular grenades. Like 2.0 blast radius for std 2.4 for advanced and 2.8 or 3.0 for complex. The damage should be like 350 std, 425 adv, 500 complex. That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not. And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP. When did I say every dropsuit is shield tanked? Also how is that relevant to my post at all? Cause a 500 damage contact grenade can one shot a lot of armor suits, but only do like 300 damage to a shield one. The only way contact grenades can ever be balanced is if they did low amounts of Hybrid damage. Like 250. And they'd still be a crutch for spray and prayers.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 254	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:13:00 - [19] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: They just need to make contact grenades have a tight blast radius and lower damage then regular grenades. Like 2.0 blast radius for std 2.4 for advanced and 2.8 or 3.0 for complex. The damage should be like 350 std, 425 adv, 500 complex. That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not. And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP. When did I say every dropsuit is shield tanked? Also how is that relevant to my post at all? Cause a 500 damage contact grenade can one shot a lot of armor suits, but only do like 300 damage to a shield one. The only way contact grenades can ever be balanced is if they did low amounts of Hybrid damage. Like 250. And they'd still be a crutch for spray and prayers. Make contact fluxes... Problem = solved.
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 208	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:20:00 - [20] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: we did a piece on contact grenades here http://tinyurl.com/l3wqn4j I did a piece on the counter at a Sonic once...

Poplo Furuya Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:39:00 - [21] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: They just need to make contact grenades have a tight blast radius and lower damage then regular grenades. Like 2.0 blast radius for std 2.4 for advanced and 2.8 or 3.0 for complex. The damage should be like 350 std, 425 adv, 500 complex. That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not. And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP. When did I say every dropsuit is shield tanked? Also how is that relevant to my post at all? Cause a 500 damage contact grenade can one shot a lot of armor suits, but only do like 300 damage to a shield one. The only way contact grenades can ever be balanced is if they did low amounts of Hybrid damage. Like 250. And they'd still be a crutch for spray and prayers. Make contact fluxes... Problem = solved. More like problems multiplied. Putting aside the fact flux can't even be used in the same capacity as a finisher, the proper response to X being OP isn't to make Y join it in being OP. As much as I would bask in radiant glee while unleashing contact fluxes on hapless Caldari PRO-Logis it simply wouldn't help the game to have them exist.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 653	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:42:00 - [22] - Quote Please add contact fluxes. Thanks.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1296	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:45:00 - [23] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Please add contact fluxes. Thanks. ^This I could get behind...
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 254	Posted - 2013.06.11 00:46:00 - [24] - Quote Poplo Furuya wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Cass Barr wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Cass Barr wrote: That's just dumb. Every dropsuits in the game isn't shield tanked, believe it or not. And even if they changed them to Hybrid damage, they're still OP. When did I say every dropsuit is shield tanked? Also how is that relevant to my post at all? Cause a 500 damage contact grenade can one shot a lot of armor suits, but only do like 300 damage to a shield one. The only way contact grenades can ever be balanced is if they did low amounts of Hybrid damage. Like 250. And they'd still be a crutch for spray and prayers. Make contact fluxes... Problem = solved. More like problems multiplied. Putting aside the fact flux can't even be used in the same capacity as a finisher, the proper response to X being OP isn't to make Y join it in being OP. As much as I would bask in radiant glee while unleashing contact fluxes on hapless Caldari PRO-Logis it simply wouldn't help the game to have them exist. Why? Lower blast radius and damage then you have them fixed. The only reason why contacts are OP is because the AUR variant has the same blast radius and damage. Use the ISK contact grenade. It is how contact grenades should be (Except it needs a little bit of reduced damage).Also there are plenty of games that have been able to implement contact grenades just fine. CCP just needs to do it better. Seriously removing content is just going to give this game less variety which is never good.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.11 03:04:00 - [25] - Quote Kane Fyea, you have a good point DMG and Blast radius need to go down especially the AUR ones they aren't super deadly but they are twice as effective at killing than are regular locuses
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 121	Posted - 2013.06.11 03:05:00 - [26] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: Kane Fyea, you have a good point DMG and Blast radius need to go down especially the AUR ones they aren't super deadly but they are twice as effective at killing than are regular locuses They do ruin most CQC fight by being the easy opt out method.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 264	Posted - 2013.06.11 03:14:00 - [27] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: Kane Fyea, you have a good point DMG and Blast radius need to go down especially the AUR ones they aren't super deadly but they are twice as effective at killing than are regular locuses They do ruin most CQC fight by being the easy opt out method. I can kill someone just as easily in CQC with my M1 grenades. It really isn't bad as long as they decrease dmg and blast radius. I can agree with it being OP ATM but if they take my suggestion then I can guarantee you they wouldn't be that big of a problem.
Cass Barr Red Star. EoN. 186	Posted - 2013.06.11 03:18:00 - [28] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: Kane Fyea, you have a good point DMG and Blast radius need to go down especially the AUR ones they aren't super deadly but they are twice as effective at killing than are regular locuses Run an armor suit for a little while then come back and say they aren't deadly.
Mike Poole Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 203	Posted - 2013.06.11 03:46:00 - [29] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Seriously removing content is just going to give this game less variety which is never good. Adding unbalanced and unnecessary content isn't good either. There's already a method of dropping a grenade right on someone and having it explode, it's called cooking the grenade. It takes a minimal amount of skill and timing and gives your opponent at least a fighting chance instead of deciding an encounter in one quick throw.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 22	Posted - 2013.06.11 03:46:00 - [30] - Quote Yes CCP kill these things AGAIN! Create a grenade with a short fuse time (like 2 secs) and lower damage but don't give contact grenades. CCP this is part of what we mean when we say lack of communication. You put these in and the community responded asking you to remove them. You did this and we thought it was settled. Then you bring them back in much more limited capacity and we again said we did not like them but were willing to bear them in this very limited capacity. Then you just bring them back for absolutely no reason. COMMUNICATE why you thought these were justified to bring back and LISTEN when we tell you why these do not belong in game. It feels like we are just banging our heads.

Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 266	Posted - 2013.06.11 04:04:00 - [31] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Yes CCP kill these things AGAIN! Create a grenade with a short fuse time (like 2 secs) and lower damage but don't give contact grenades. CCP this is part of what we mean when we say lack of communication. You put these in and the community responded asking you to remove them. You did this and we thought it was settled. Then you bring them back in much more limited capacity and we again said we did not like them but were willing to bear them in this very limited capacity. Then you just bring them back for absolutely no reason. COMMUNICATE why you thought these were justified to bring back and LISTEN when we tell you why these do not belong in game. It feels like we are just banging our heads. This. I would +1000 if possible. The only thing that remotely balanced Fused Grenades was that there was a $20 price tag to get more of 'em. Now they're popcorn. Fused and Thukkers should be delisted from the market, and left as an oddity collecting dust in the corners of Merc Vaults until they're all gone from the game.
Rugman91 Deep Space Republic Top Men. 181	Posted - 2013.07.08 19:32:00 - [32] - Quote Well said. They need to go
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 483	Posted - 2013.07.08 19:42:00 - [33] - Quote How about contact grenades that shoot outof a side arm? oh wait we have those.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4685	Posted - 2013.07.08 19:47:00 - [34] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: How about contact grenades that shoot outof a side arm? oh wait we have those. I can't wait to use two of those awesome light weapons on this awesome new Commando.....oh wait...
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 542	Posted - 2013.07.08 20:00:00 - [35] - Quote Rugman91 wrote: Well said. They need to go Thanks for necroing the FLG tears, I needed a good laugh.


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