DUST Search - [Request] Swap Swarm damage stats with plasma launcher

EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:

Godin Thekiller wrote:

Harpyja wrote:

No. No need to imbalance armor and shield vehicles any more than their current state. What you are requesting will give stronger AV for anti shields and weaker AV for anti armor.

No.

What is it with people thinking Hybrid is effective against shield? It's like nobody here plays EVE other than me....

Peace, Godin Twisted

*cough* ahem

I think the belief stems from certain hybrid weapons, such as railguns, doing 108% vs. Shields and 97% vs Armor, or something like that. I believe this "mostly same" value stems from damage types in EVE being 41.6% Thermic and 58.4% Kinetic for Tech 1 Hybrid ammo. When you look at the standard resist profile being 20%/40% Therm/Kin for shields and 35%/35% Therm/Kin for armor (assuming Gallente or Caldari), then:

(Large Antimatter Charge)
Thermic: 20 - (20*.2) = 16pts
Kinetic: 28 - (28*.4) = 16.8pts
Total vs Shield = 32.8

(Large Antimatter Charge)
Thermic: 20 - (20*.35) = 13pts
Kinetic: 28 - (28*.35) = 18.2pts
Total vs Armor (G/C) = 31.2

So hybrids are actually a teensy bit better against shields.

(Large Antimatter Charge)
Thermic: 20 - (20*.35) = 13pts
Kinetic: 28 - (28*.25) = 21pts
Total vs Armor (M/A) = 34

Except against Minmatar or Amarr. Hah.

Anyway, that aside, a majority of the hybrid weapons in the game (I believe) do slightly more damage against shields than armor. But they are nearly equal.

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Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3437	Posted - 2013.06.08 21:07:00 - [1] - Quote Why is a fire and forget ezmode weapon like the swarm launcher still doin so much dmg compared to a skill shot weapon like the plasma cannon? The 2 need their damage values swapped. Aiming should be rewarded and that is not the case currently with the plasma cannon. If you are worried about it being abused as an anti infantry weapon i dont see how much different that is compared to current Forge Gun and Plasma cannon tbqh. Plasma cannon will still one shot infantry. If u are worried that much then reduce the splash radius.....an AV weapon like that shouldnt have a high splash radius anyway. So ideally looking at around 1800 dmg per shot from plasma cannon and since u have to reload after every shot similiar to FG having to charge up between shots it wont be OP imo especially with the high reload time which also still makes the FG the best AV weapon for infantry thoughts?
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 899	Posted - 2013.06.08 22:47:00 - [2] - Quote Agreed. I've seen one or two Plasma cannons. I've never felt threatened by them, either.
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 149	Posted - 2013.06.09 11:20:00 - [3] - Quote still dont understand the need to screw with aim by adding arc on projec wpns, pretty basic shooter rule that bullets go where the sights aim at. if sights dont work dont add them. I agree that skill based weapons like PC should do more damage, but player aim should be rewarded. add scope sway like the SR if u must but let projectiles go where the reticle is.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 112	Posted - 2013.06.09 11:39:00 - [4] - Quote The PC has anti-infantry capabilities with it's enormous splash radius while the swarm launcher doesn't. That's why the SL is better at AV than the PC.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3446	Posted - 2013.06.09 12:59:00 - [5] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: The PC has anti-infantry capabilities with it's enormous splash radius while the swarm launcher doesn't. That's why the SL is better at AV than the PC. hence i said REDUCE the splash radius of the plasma cannon
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 603	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:25:00 - [6] - Quote The Plasma Cannon is meant for both AV and AI, so you should be careful with nerfing it's AI capabilities (too much). If it's only good for AV then it's not working as intended. With that said, the Plasma Cannon does need to be better at AV. Plasma Cannon is only good for close range, so of course it should be a high damage AV weapon compared to the Swarm Launcher, which is a more long range weapon.
Tharak Meuridiar The Empyrean Agency 77	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:24:00 - [7] - Quote I can't understand the nerf-addict mentality of a lot of people. Are you saying the SL is OP vs. vehicles? Because I would disagree. It's very nice but you still have to put multiple volleys into your target to take any decent vehicles down. It's just the plasma cannon is VERY underpowered. No need to nerf the SL. Just buff the plasma cannon and be done with it.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 135	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:29:00 - [8] - Quote If the splash radius gets nerfed, then I actually agree with this. BUT make i tto where you could dumb-fire the swarms.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:38:00 - [9] - Quote No. No need to imbalance armor and shield vehicles any more than their current state. What you are requesting will give stronger AV for anti shields and weaker AV for anti armor. No.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 135	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:41:00 - [10] - Quote Harpyja wrote: No. No need to imbalance armor and shield vehicles any more than their current state. What you are requesting will give stronger AV for anti shields and weaker AV for anti armor. No. What is it with people thinking Hybrid is effective against shield? It's like nobody here plays EVE other than me.... Peace, Godin

EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2013.06.09 14:54:00 - [11] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Harpyja wrote: No. No need to imbalance armor and shield vehicles any more than their current state. What you are requesting will give stronger AV for anti shields and weaker AV for anti armor. No. What is it with people thinking Hybrid is effective against shield? It's like nobody here plays EVE other than me.... Peace, Godin cough ahem I think the belief stems from certain hybrid weapons, such as railguns, doing 108% vs. Shields and 97% vs Armor, or something like that. I believe this "mostly same" value stems from damage types in EVE being 41.6% Thermic and 58.4% Kinetic for Tech 1 Hybrid ammo. When you look at the standard resist profile being 20%/40% Therm/Kin for shields and 35%/35% Therm/Kin for armor (assuming Gallente or Caldari), then: (Large Antimatter Charge) Thermic: 20 - (20.2) = 16pts Kinetic: 28 - (28.4) = 16.8pts Total vs Shield = 32.8 (Large Antimatter Charge) Thermic: 20 - (20.35) = 13pts Kinetic: 28 - (28.35) = 18.2pts Total vs Armor (G/C) = 31.2 So hybrids are actually a teensy bit better against shields. (Large Antimatter Charge) Thermic: 20 - (20.35) = 13pts Kinetic: 28 - (28.25) = 21pts Total vs Armor (M/A) = 34 Except against Minmatar or Amarr. Hah. Anyway, that aside, a majority of the hybrid weapons in the game (I believe) do slightly more damage against shields than armor. But they are nearly equal.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2013.06.09 15:10:00 - [12] - Quote I have tested and railguns deal 109% to shields and 89% to armor. I can only assume all hybrid weapons follow this same damage pattern or at least something similar. This means that they are roughly 22% more damaging to shield than armor. This is actually a lot more significant than it is in EVE as EXASTRA nicely calculated. And yes Godin, I have played EVE for more than a couple of years. Also, the name 'hybrid' implies that its useful against shield and armor at roughly the same effectiveness. But doing 22% more damage to shield than armor is too significant of a damage difference, while EVE has less than a 10% damage difference.
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 135	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:10:00 - [13] - Quote EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Harpyja wrote: No. No need to imbalance armor and shield vehicles any more than their current state. What you are requesting will give stronger AV for anti shields and weaker AV for anti armor. No. What is it with people thinking Hybrid is effective against shield? It's like nobody here plays EVE other than me.... Peace, Godin cough ahem I think the belief stems from certain hybrid weapons, such as railguns, doing 108% vs. Shields and 97% vs Armor, or something like that. I believe this "mostly same" value stems from damage types in EVE being 41.6% Thermic and 58.4% Kinetic for Tech 1 Hybrid ammo. When you look at the standard resist profile being 20%/40% Therm/Kin for shields and 35%/35% Therm/Kin for armor (assuming Gallente or Caldari), then: (Large Antimatter Charge) Thermic: 20 - (20.2) = 16pts Kinetic: 28 - (28.4) = 16.8pts Total vs Shield = 32.8 (Large Antimatter Charge) Thermic: 20 - (20.35) = 13pts Kinetic: 28 - (28.35) = 18.2pts Total vs Armor (G/C) = 31.2 So hybrids are actually a teensy bit better against shields. (Large Antimatter Charge) Thermic: 20 - (20.35) = 13pts Kinetic: 28 - (28.25) = 21pts Total vs Armor (M/A) = 34 Except against Minmatar or Amarr. Hah. Anyway, that aside, a majority of the hybrid weapons in the game (I believe) do slightly more damage against shields than armor. But they are nearly equal. This is my point, it's so close, 1 shot wouldn't make a difference. Peace, Godin
Godin Thekiller Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 135	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:11:00 - [14] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I have tested and railguns deal 109% to shields and 89% to armor. I can only assume all hybrid weapons follow this same damage pattern or at least something similar. This means that they are roughly 22% more damaging to shield than armor. This is actually a lot more significant than it is in EVE as EXASTRA nicely calculated. And yes Godin, I have played EVE for more than a couple of years. Also, the name 'hybrid' implies that its useful against shield and armor at roughly the same effectiveness. But doing 22% more damage to shield than armor is too significant of a damage difference, while EVE has less than a 10% damage difference. Tested it and it does 97%. What kind of ****** up math are you doing lol Peace, Godin
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:19:00 - [15] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Also, the name 'hybrid' implies that its useful against shield and armor at roughly the same effectiveness. But doing 22% more damage to shield than armor is too significant of a damage difference, while EVE has less than a 10% damage difference. Actually, the name hybrid implies that it is made from two separate things, being combined into one common element. In this case, blasters and railguns. The hybrid charges are used separately by each. Railguns accelerate the charge magnetically, using the casing for the attack and the internal charge is mainly filler. By comparison, blasters eat the outer casing, and fire the internal charge contained by a magnetic field. Two completely different technologies that are combined into one group, hence "Hybrids". Got nothing to do with shields or armor.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 92	Posted - 2013.06.09 16:49:00 - [16] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Harpyja wrote: I have tested and railguns deal 109% to shields and 89% to armor. I can only assume all hybrid weapons follow this same damage pattern or at least something similar. This means that they are roughly 22% more damaging to shield than armor. This is actually a lot more significant than it is in EVE as EXASTRA nicely calculated. And yes Godin, I have played EVE for more than a couple of years. Also, the name 'hybrid' implies that its useful against shield and armor at roughly the same effectiveness. But doing 22% more damage to shield than armor is too significant of a damage difference, while EVE has less than a 10% damage difference. Tested it and it does 97%. What kind of ****** up math are you doing lol Peace, Godin I don't know what 97% you're talking about. Armor has always had 89% for railguns. And I stand corrected EXASTRA, I've been under that impression, but I did know how railguns and blasters worked.


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