DUST Search - SP Cap Augmentation for Aur

CCP Nothin wrote:

Active boosters simply multiply the number of skill points you receive at the end of each battle. As such, you are better off activating them when your pool of battle skill points is full (e.g. at the beginning of each weekly cycle). If you play a lot, you might be better off with a shorter (e.g. 3-day) active booster as it will allow you to earn bulk of the extra SP by playing a lot while it is active. If you prefer a more casual style of play, you might prefer to have the boost active throughout and have the freedom to spread your play over more days without worrying about it too much.

Now, in regard to the weekly skill cap and the implications of it:

We acknowledge that the current implementation of the skill cap still isn't quite there yet. It doesn't quite allow people to choose when to play as freely as we would like, and it also adds some unnecessary complexity when it comes to using active boosters. This is why we are working our way towards a rollover SP system: instead having your pool of bonus SP being reset according to a fixed weekly cycle, you will steadily accumulate bonus SP to a pool over time that you can then empty through fighting in battles. As a result, everyone should be able to better choose when to come in and claim the available SP. Moving to such a system would have the added benefit of allowing us to make active boosters to give out a constant value over time by having them influence the rate at which SP accumulates into the pool instead of just multiplying SP received at the end of each battle.

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Carter Raynor The Generals EoN. 25	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:31:00 - [1] - Quote I had a great idea for those who are complaining that with the current SP weekly cap, it will be impossible to catch up to others who have been playing the game for quite some time. 15,000 Aur 7 Day SP No Cap What it would entail, would be from when the boost is started, the bonus SP pool would be unlimited. If someone started it on a Saturday, when they had already capped out for the week, they would regain the boost sp bonus for those 7 days. Passing wednesday, the game would keep track if you pass that weeks bonus, and on the saturday it runs out you pass the normal weekly cap it would hard cap immediately. Combine this with the passive and active and a new player could greatly increase his chances in New Eden. I thought of this idea, because as a newish player myself (2.1m sp), it would be great to be able to speed up progression for a little bit. Ideas? You can be against my idea, it was only in my head as a passing thought.
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 178	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:39:00 - [2] - Quote PAY2WIN is 2LEGIT SWAG SWAG SWAG
Zahle Undt The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 168	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:41:00 - [3] - Quote Novawolf McDustingham The514th wrote: PAY2WIN is 2LEGIT SWAG SWAG SWAG Basically what this guy said. The pay to win blowback would be strong with this sort of thing.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3527	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:42:00 - [4] - Quote Because SP isn't enough of crutch already
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1228	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:46:00 - [5] - Quote Just make SP 100% passive or a weekly rollover. No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. If you miss a week of playing WoW, do you get capped at level 90 because that exp you didn't get for not playing is unobtainable? Grinding for SP every week shouldn't be a motivation to play. End of story.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3527	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:47:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Grinding for SP every week shouldn't be a motivation to play. Unless you're in an active corp that frequently does PC matches, this is literally the ONLY motivation to play. Hence AFK
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1228	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:54:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Cosgar wrote: Grinding for SP every week shouldn't be a motivation to play. Unless you're in an active corp that frequently does PC matches (assuming you've grinded long enough for the required SP), this is literally the ONLY motivation to play. Hence AFK I would do PC, but my weapon is bugged to the point that it doesn't work and was nerfed based on how many people at CCP used it in a LAN party. Fix isn't coming for ~3 months and even after, it'll still be crap. I probably should just AFK instead of wasting ISK. It'll give more more time to finish up Borderlands 2 and ME 3
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 379	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:55:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just make SP 100% passive or a weekly rollover. No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. If you miss a week of playing WoW, do you get capped at level 90 because that exp you didn't get for not playing is unobtainable? Grinding for SP every week shouldn't be a motivation to play. End of story. I've been saying this for a year or raise the passive a little bit and only give 1/10 active.
hydraSlav's Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 198	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:57:00 - [9] - Quote Cosgar wrote: No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. Umm... here is one that punishes you exactly like Dust: EvE
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3530	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:58:00 - [10] - Quote hydraSlav's wrote: Cosgar wrote: No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. Umm... here is one that punishes you exactly like Dust: EvE 100% passive SP? O.o

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1229	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:59:00 - [11] - Quote hydraSlav's wrote: Cosgar wrote: No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. Umm... here is one that punishes you exactly like Dust: EvE EVE's skill system is 100% passive while you can set the skills you want to learn and forget it. But EVE has enough content to make you want to play anyway. I should know, I only played for 5 years...
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1109	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:02:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Nothin wrote: Active boosters simply multiply the number of skill points you receive at the end of each battle. As such, you are better off activating them when your pool of battle skill points is full (e.g. at the beginning of each weekly cycle). If you play a lot, you might be better off with a shorter (e.g. 3-day) active booster as it will allow you to earn bulk of the extra SP by playing a lot while it is active. If you prefer a more casual style of play, you might prefer to have the boost active throughout and have the freedom to spread your play over more days without worrying about it too much. Now, in regard to the weekly skill cap and the implications of it: We acknowledge that the current implementation of the skill cap still isn't quite there yet. It doesn't quite allow people to choose when to play as freely as we would like, and it also adds some unnecessary complexity when it comes to using active boosters. This is why we are working our way towards a rollover SP system: instead having your pool of bonus SP being reset according to a fixed weekly cycle, you will steadily accumulate bonus SP to a pool over time that you can then empty through fighting in battles. As a result, everyone should be able to better choose when to come in and claim the available SP. Moving to such a system would have the added benefit of allowing us to make active boosters to give out a constant value over time by having them influence the rate at which SP accumulates into the pool instead of just multiplying SP received at the end of each battle. Soon(TM)
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3530	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:04:00 - [13] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Soon(TM) Not sure when that quote was from, but they told us that MONTHS ago. As usual.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2620	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:05:00 - [14] - Quote Sorry. But I don't like it. This is pretty much asking for pay-to-win because you are then allowing players to no-life their way into reaching prototype level in just a week or two. Keep in mind that this idea was yours was tested during closed beta back during the replication build and when players only had 3 days of the 7-day week to log into the game before CCP made it open all week later on. It was only to allow players to provide key metrics to CCP on the over all effectiveness of high-tier items compared to their low-tier equivalents. That job was done and after the game was allowed to remain on for 7 days of week instead of 3 days a week, CCP imposed the SP cap so that no-lifers can reach proto-everything inside of 2 months when the skill tree is intended to take 7-10 years to fully train and even then CCP will add more skill books and items into the market during those years even after commercial release just like Eve Online. There is also another thing to consider. Any attempt to implement a mechanic that supposedly benefits new players will invariable benefit the veterans as well. The idea you suggest will then allow the veterans to increase the SP gap even further. Also, it doesn't matter about the SP cap anymore. No matter which game you play you will find players that have advanced so far ahead of you that you will never catch up with them. I'm at SR36 in Halo 4 and a friend of mine is already at SR90+ while his brother is way ahead at SR140+. Keep in mind that for every level I advance into, the XP requirement for the next level increases. So even when playing Spartan Ops and online multiplayer, I'm already feeling the grind at my current level. Call of Duty is hardly any different and there are still players that are ahead of me. Again, you will never catch up anyways with the veterans who decided to join into the game months or years before you did. One clear example of this is Eve Online. The game we are now connected to and sharing the galaxy with. Even after ten years of training, there are still players who have well over 200 million SP and yet are not finished training. On top of that, the SP gained is all passive meaning there is not a snowball's chance in hell for a 1-year player to catch up with a 10-year vet in a skill tree that was never meant to be maxed out in a few months. Let's assume for a moment that the idea you suggested is implemented. It will be Replication all over again. Let's look at the numbers. Let's say that every match earns you 6,000 SP and that's only of you're doing ok (but not excellent) in each of those matches. Then let's take into account the fact that humans need 6 hours of sleep a night. That leaves 18 hours of game time assuming you want to no-life it. And assuming each match lasts 20 minutes, that means that player will be able to do at least 54 matches a day. That will total to about 324,000 SP a day, 2,268,000 SP a week, 9,072,000 SP a month, 108,864,000 SP in a year. Compare that to how long an Eve player has taken to reach that much, a Dust merc will be able to earn 200 million SP inside two years while it took an Eve player ten years to achieve the same thing. Capsuleers will not be happy and there will be protests of epic proportions with subscription numbers sinking faster than Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic. Eve also happens to be CCP's primary source of income and the Eve players have protested before which forced CCP to lay off over 100 employees during 2011 in the summer of rage (Jita Riots). Then there is the whole pay-to-win thing which your idea is crossing into.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 248	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:05:00 - [15] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Grinding for SP every week shouldn't be a motivation to play. End of story. Totally agree with you there. Great gameplay, a sense of being able to really effect a huge universe, and having good people to play with are the reasons that should bring people back. On the SP topic though, it really isn't the issue people think it is. You're never able to catch up to people who have played longer, but you're only really at a relative disadvantage to them while you're below 10mil SP. At 10 mil SP you're able to max out one suit, weapon, and relavent support skills. Nothing but your own player ability is limiting you. After that point it's all breadth, not depth. I stopped hitting my weekly cap and stopped buying boosters after 10.5 mil SP, and it hasn't hampered my ability to compete even slightly (I have 2 mil SP unspent still, as well. Come on new Heavy Suits!). I'm slower getting into a secondary specialization, but that's about it.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 531	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:13:00 - [16] - Quote We were supposed to get a rolling cap from day one of Uprising. We voted on it months ago. This would have meant that the new players' grind would have been to catch up, not merely to improve at the same rate.
reydient TYRANNY of EVIL MEN 1	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:22:00 - [17] - Quote Grinding the CAP every week is not required. Dust 514 is a long term game. Just like EVE, if your truly committed then getting your cap will not matter but its really beneficial . You will get in time the SP( passive) , but if your playing dust to be SUPER PRO now , and your not willing to wait, your going to be frustrated and "grinding " is going to be painful and annoying. There is no beating dust so pace yourself and buckle up for the long run and focus on getting territories. Spec today, How you will plan your future of tomorrow
Django Quik R.I.f.t 641	Posted - 2013.06.08 17:26:00 - [18] - Quote What makes you think that all the top SP players won't be using these things 24/7 and the gap your complaining about will get even worse?
hydraSlav's Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 201	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:05:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: hydraSlav's wrote: Cosgar wrote: No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. Umm... here is one that punishes you exactly like Dust: EvE EVE's skill system is 100% passive while you can set the skills you want to learn and forget it. But EVE has enough content to make you want to play anyway. I should know, I only played for 5 years... EVE's skill system is only 100% passive if you have an active paying account, and set up your queue. Even if you have a recurring subscription for, let's say a year, the skill queue only allows to queue up limited number of skills. If you don't play, your queue will end, and if you are not playing and don't reset the queue, you are losing potential SP gain forever. If your subscription expires because you decide to take a break, your queue would only train while your subscription is valid. After that point, your are losing potential SP gain forever. Even if you make a mistake, and mis-manage your queue, so that your queue ends at a time that you are not online. Between the queue end and the time you get online, you are losing potential SP gain forever, EvE's SP systems is not like Dust's SP system. However, i was answering to the invalid statement in my quote, that another game (EvE) is permanently punishing you with loss of potential SP gain for not playing, just like Dust.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 131	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:10:00 - [20] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Just make SP 100% passive or a weekly rollover. No other game with character building punishes you for not playing like Dust 514 does. If you miss a week of playing WoW, do you get capped at level 90 because that exp you didn't get for not playing is unobtainable? Grinding for SP every week shouldn't be a motivation to play. End of story. its not a punishment, you get what you earn.

Avallo Kantor DUST University Ivy League 24	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:45:00 - [21] - Quote Also, remember that after a certain point that SP gained no longer affects your ability to do better in one role, just expand into other roles. For example, once you have core skills maxed, your chosen racial drop suit to max, and your gun maxed out... you can't get any better at that role. So once you max out the skills of say a shotgun for example, you get to the point where you can't make the shotgun any better. After that you're free to try to spec into HMG, or nova kinves, but that won't increase your performance with a shotgun. There is an effective ceiling for how good you can be at any one role, and you have to compare yourself to that instead of the maximum possible SP. For example, let's say as a rough estimate it takes 5 million SP to fit the best possible SR with what you think is the best slot layout in a proto Amarr Assault suit. If a player with exactly 5 million SP (who put it all into that build) fought a player with 100 million SP who used that same suit, then skill wise they would be equal. The point of limited SP is to punish generalization, and encourage (or demand) specialization to be useful on the battlefield. The only people who are truly put at a disadvantage through this is 1) People trying to grow into a new specialization after already having one, or generalizing into something new. And 2) New players who don't have enough SP to perfect a skill even if they put all they had into it. On point 1) I have no problems with that sort of outcome, people want to step out of their comfort zone, or try to spread themselves too thin, then that's fine. As for point 2, I do believe that BA should be extended to at least 2 Million SP (which is currently the SP drop out for the academy) but with NO WP cap. This should make it so all graduates are on a much more competitive footing.
Heals Vaginas Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.06.11 17:46:00 - [22] - Quote So allow the lifeless to pay to increase their narrow minded self acclamations of their leetness. -1 OP
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 147	Posted - 2013.06.11 18:19:00 - [23] - Quote Regardless of our personal opinions concerning the SP cap, and/or how it will impact on the feelings of Eve players the critical matter is new player retention. If you can not retain at least a reasonable number of new players because they believe the SP system is unfair then our opinions become irrelevant. The reasons above for the cap become meaningless if those new players leave. My personal opinion is remove the cap in its entirety as I believe the number of no-lifers who will benefit will decrease as a percentage of the player base as more new players will be willing to stay. And has been mentioned you can only invest x amount of SP in a particular build before you reach max and move onto something else. At a guess I would say we have less than 20k active players on Dust 514 and my concern is that, outside of the academy, most of the players will be vets as the new players give up due to the proto stomps and the grind necessary to become competitive. I understand someone suggested that it will only take 6 months to get to a stage where you will become effective as you would also be at proto level. How many console games do you play constantly for 6 months in the first place let alone just to get to the stage of being competitive and until then being slaughtered in most of the battles you play. As others have used Eve as an example I will give mine. The Academy is the equivalent of low sec and if you are enthusiastic about the game and have the time you will probably graduate in 1-3 days earning maybe an additional 60-190k SP on top of the 500k you started with. At this point you are thrown into Null Sec into the middle of a massive battle between major fleets who are actively killing anyone who is not them and you have nowhere to hide as no station exists in this example. There is a reason why new players start in high sec in Eve and I assume a fairly important part of it is new player retention would drop significantly if they started in low/null sec with pvp fleets just waiting outside the station for them to stick their heads out. The SP sink increased significantly between Chromosone and Uprising but the cap remained the same. No cap or a higher cap will benefit new players more than vets because we will grow wider, after a certain point, and not taller while new players can reach a stage of viability quicker.
Onesimus Tarsus Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 317	Posted - 2013.06.11 19:05:00 - [24] - Quote I just wish they had the guts to put a $ amount on complete skill tree, sort of like an eBay "buy it now" offer. Then you could decide if you should just buy it and quit playing the game entirely, or just quit playing the game entirely. I think $700 would be plenty to allow you to stop playing this game with infinite stuff you're never going to use.


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