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Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
373
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Posted - 2013.06.08 12:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would you kindly rethink your explosives resistances?
Why do all weapons (except the scrambler rifle, which does 120% to shields) do 110% to shields, when every explosive in the game does 130%+ to armor? 130% is locus grenades, while things like the flaylock pistol do 145% to armor. WHY? Except for grenades, all weapons should be reduced to 110%, just like shields, except for the flaylock which should be 120%.
CCP just loves ******* armor from every direction. They give us a tiny bit more eHP in exchange for a huge amount of recharge, and then they make weapons that destroy armor faster than you can blink. Troll much? |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
522
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Posted - 2013.06.08 12:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:CCP just loves ******* armor from every direction. They give us a tiny bit more eHP in exchange for a huge amount of recharge, and then they make weapons that destroy armor faster than you can blink. Troll much?
They do seem to give you the freedom to fit your own suits the way you want? |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
110
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Posted - 2013.06.08 13:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:
They do seem to give you the freedom to fit your own suits the way you want?
They do aslong as you run caldari, with AR, flaylock and contact nades, with a side of logi hav |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
204
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Posted - 2013.06.08 13:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah, my Gallente suits get hit pretty hard my all forms of explosives. Even my proto suits(unless I stack shield mods) can't stand up to milita locus. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
595
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Posted - 2013.06.08 14:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
because they do more damage as a based so they still have to have the same power as weapons effective on shields on shields? |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
178
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Posted - 2013.06.08 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hey they had to do something what with all these people moving around at half speed armor tankin' it up.
HEAVIES WOULD BE GOD NERF NERF NERF NERFLEBIUF{oihS?LDVDj[ioslvJCN?K .m;Siodnc[oIW[CLIaksdn!!!!!!!! |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
250
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote: Why do all weapons (except the scrambler rifle, which does 120% to shields) do 110% to shields, when every explosive in the game does 130%+ to armor?
Weapon resistance modifiers (weapon/shield modifier/armor modifier):
Assault Rifle110%90% Mass Driver70%130% Laser Rifle120%80% Sniper100%100% Shotty110%135% Forge Gun150%100% Nova Knives100%100% HMG95%110% SMG94%109% Scramblers120%80%
Looks like a pretty even spread to me. The most used weapons in the game (AR, SR) have a penalty against armor. No whining necessary, IMO. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
378
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Kitten Empress wrote: Why do all weapons (except the scrambler rifle, which does 120% to shields) do 110% to shields, when every explosive in the game does 130%+ to armor?
Weapon resistance modifiers (weapon/shield modifier/armor modifier): Assault Rifle110%90% Mass Driver70%130% Laser Rifle120%80% Sniper100%100% Shotty110%135% Forge Gun150%100% Nova Knives100%100% HMG95%110% SMG94%109% Scramblers120%80% Looks like a pretty even spread to me. The most used weapons in the game (AR, SR) have a penalty against armor. No whining necessary, IMO. Even spread and yet the armor specific weapons do much more damage. How does that seem even to you? |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
250
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote: Even spread and yet the armor specific weapons do much more damage. How does that seem even to you?
The true explosive weapons have a matching huge penalty to shield damage. Otherwise, are you saying that the HMG and SMG need to be nerfed?
Honestly, the only one that really looks out of wack for armor is the shotgun. The bonuses for it are just...weird. You're going to be hard pressed to find people who agree that the Shotgun is overpowered and needs to be nerfed, however.
The biggest outlier honestly is the Forge Gun, which gets a tremendous shield damage bonus without the cost of an armor penalty. That doesn't fit in with your original argument, though. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
379
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Kitten Empress wrote: Even spread and yet the armor specific weapons do much more damage. How does that seem even to you?
The true explosive weapons have a matching huge penalty to shield damage. Otherwise, are you saying that the HMG and SMG need to be nerfed? Honestly, the only one that really looks out of wack for armor is the shotgun. The bonuses for it are just...weird. You're going to be hard pressed to find people who agree that the Shotgun is overpowered and needs to be nerfed, however. The biggest outlier honestly is the Forge Gun, which gets a tremendous shield damage bonus without the cost of an armor penalty. That doesn't fit in with your original argument, though. So? Considering on my Gallente suit, 1/6th of my eHP is shield, I think it doesn't matter how huge a penalty is against shield. It should be even spread, 90%/110% or 110%/90% except for some unusual weapons like the forge gun which I will explain. If shield weapons had 140%/60%, against a Caldari, what do you think would happen? The same time to kill as 100%/100%?
The forge gun is an AV weapon. Its supposed to do extra damage to tank shields, not infantry. Its just that people decided to use it for infantry sniping. |
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Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
250
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Posted - 2013.06.08 17:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote: So? Considering on my Gallente suit, 1/6th of my eHP is shield, I think it doesn't matter how huge a penalty is against shield. It should be even spread, 90%/110% or 110%/90% except for some unusual weapons like the forge gun which I will explain. If shield weapons had 140%/60%, against a Caldari, what do you think would happen? The same time to kill as 100%/100%?
The forge gun is an AV weapon. Its supposed to do extra damage to tank shields, not infantry. Its just that people decided to use it for infantry sniping.
Fair enough. I suppose I'm coming at it from a Heavy standpoint, where even shield and armor amounts means it all evens out in the end for me.
Bear with me a bit though on two points:
1) You are talking about total HP, not eHP. Your eHP depends on what's shooting at you. If you have 100 shields and 200 armor, you have 300 total HP.
If an Assault Rifle is shooting at you, you have 100/1.1 + 200/.9 = 312 EHP. If a Scrambler Rifle is shooting at you, you have 100/1.2 + 200/.8 = 333 EHP. If a Mass Driver is shooting at you, you have 100/.7 + 200/1.3 = 295 EHP.
2) Some givens on the state of the game, and you can feel free to disagree:
GÇó A lot of people use Assault Rifles and Scrambler Rifles GÇó A lot of people shield tank GÇó Given the previous point, people fit to kill shield tanks GÇó A fair amount of tossed (non-fused) grenades do no or minimal damage to people because people dodge
Given all those things, you're more likely to end up with higher EHP than total HP by playing Gallente, than you are to end up with less EHP than total HP.
Make sense? |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1311
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Honestly all weapons should be more extreme
Blasters/hybrids should do 100%/100% split damage but have the lowest dps
Then lasers and projectiles/explosives
laser/enegry weapons 150% to shields, 50% to armor
explosives/projectiles 50% to shields, 150% to armor
missles should be explosives I suppose |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
381
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Honestly all weapons should be more extreme
Blasters/hybrids should do 100%/100% split damage but have the lowest dps
Then lasers and projectiles/explosives
laser/enegry weapons 150% to shields, 50% to armor
explosives/projectiles 50% to shields, 150% to armor
missles should be explosives I suppose Armor would have the advantage, since you first have to get through the layer of shields. By the time you pierce through it to have your slice of damage at the armor, the dude already killed you. |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
61
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote: Honestly, the only one that really looks out of wack for armor is the shotgun. The bonuses for it are just...weird. You're going to be hard pressed to find people who agree that the Shotgun is overpowered and needs to be nerfed, however.
That's because it isn't Yes the gun is amazing if you're close enough, but the only ones that can do anything to a proto suit are the breach and specialist variants but they both come with under 20 shots.
I love how tight the spread is on the breach, mmm heavy guts on the walls |
Fiasco Llana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
338
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Would you kindly rethink your explosives resistances? Why do all weapons (except the scrambler rifle, which does 120% to shields) do 110% to shields, when every explosive in the game does 130%+ to armor? 130% is locus grenades, while things like the flaylock pistol do 145% to armor. WHY? Except for grenades, all weapons should be reduced to 110%, just like shields, except for the flaylock which should be 120%. CCP just loves ******* armor from every direction. They give us a tiny bit more eHP in exchange for a huge amount of recharge, and then they make weapons that destroy armor faster than you can blink. Troll much?
Yes, lets nerf mass drivers even more than they already are. /sarcasm. |
Disturbingly Bored
Universal Allies Inc.
251
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote: Armor would have the advantage, since you first have to get through the layer of shields. By the time you pierce through it to have your slice of damage at the armor, the dude already killed you.
Completely and totally not trying to be an asshat here:
But isn't your statement the best argument for leaving the explosive damage modifiers the way they currently are? That's kind of already the state of the game. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
382
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Kitten Empress wrote: Armor would have the advantage, since you first have to get through the layer of shields. By the time you pierce through it to have your slice of damage at the armor, the dude already killed you.
Completely and totally not trying to be an asshat here: But isn't your statement the best argument for leaving the explosive damage modifiers the way they currently are? That's kind of already the state of the game. (mild damage bonuses and penalties for the first layer of shields, extreme bonuses and penalties for the second layer of armor) Not at all. If you decrease armor damage, you have to increase shield damage. 10% is noticeable, but isn't as extreme. |
Texs Red
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
28
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Posted - 2013.06.08 19:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
The problem is there is nothing other than the scrambler rifle and the laser rifle (which is now rarely used) that is effective vs shields and can kill a shield user vs the abundance of things that are effective vs armor and will kill you (grenades, mass drivers, flaylock pistol). The big factor is that shield users have better odds (due to no speed penalty) of getting away from anti-shield stuff were as armor slows you down and almost all anti-armor weapons are AoE. It's like trying to dodge artillery strikes with rocks tied to you shoes and the only weapon you have to use against them is a carbine. |
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