DUST Search - This whole thing about "sidearms"...

Asher Night wrote:

You STILL did not tell me what you are basing your opinion off of. I'm sure as well as I did in MAG, you've never done anything like that ever. In every FPS I have at least a 2 to 1 KDR, except Dust. Resistance 1, Resistance 2, Resistance 3, two accounts on MAG (actually three but I stopped using the very first one), Battlefield 3 - yeah, I seriously doubt the problem is with me.

The SMG needs to sit somewhere between the AR and the pistol. You mentioned sidearms, but what you didn't mention is how every sidearm stomps the SMG as it is. I am a scout in every game, so if I can't use the SMG, I'll use wither the pistol or knife. Since it takes so long to get skills in this game, I'm maining the knife, and I have to say, I can't remember a single scout that got the best of me with the SMG --- and I am bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I'm fine with the SMG not being the best at anything, but right now it's not even good at anything. I love FPS's Ilove the scout class, I always play it, and I can honestly say, the scout class in this game takes way more effort to pull off than any other FPS I have ever played in my life. I am also calling into question what you consider "quite well". If you don't have a KDR of at least 2 to 1, then your opinions just aren't as valid. Sorry, that's just how it is. Once you prove you can take on 2 people, then you opinion will be worth hearing on making weapon decisions. Do you have a 2 to 1 KDR and don't drive vehicles?


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Django Quik R.I.f.t 632	Posted - 2013.06.08 10:37:00 - [1] - Quote Ha! Seriously? You've been using them a few days and think they need a buff? I've used only a pistol and SMG as my sole weapons for the past 2 months and there's zero wrong with them. Use the scrambler for a bit of range and the SMG for close encounters or when you've got the shields down. Keep in mind that they are sidearms and don't have great range. Take your time with the pistol to maximise your chance of getting the headshot. Jump and strafe all over the place when using the SMG and consider speccing up to the assault variants. Speccing up the pistol is a huge help as well because you get the extra rounds in the clip. Remember that as they are sidearms, they take up a lot less CPU/PG than light or heavy weapons, so you've got a lot more fitting room for modules.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 640	Posted - 2013.06.08 14:39:00 - [2] - Quote @Asher Night - You're an angry one aren't you? No need to be so hostile towards people having a discussion. At the end of the day the SMG and the pistol are both sidearms. Yes, they can be mained but unless you're really good with them you're not going to get anywhere near the same kill count as light weapons. If you want them to be able to stand up against light weapons like the AR, they're going to need to be upgraded to light weapon fitting requirements (i.e. CPU and PG). It really doesn't matter what you think the SMG should be like compared to other games or real life; it's not designed to be like that in this game. It is what it is and used in a certain way and in the right hands, it's a great weapon that doesn't need changing. It also makes sense that a single shot pistol should have a longer effective range than a fully automatic weapon with an extreme rate of fire. I look forward to your apparently well thought out definitive post on this matter.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 641	Posted - 2013.06.08 14:40:00 - [3] - Quote IamI3rian wrote: Luna Calimar wrote: ...maybe even the Scrambler Pistol could use a freaking buff. FWIW they removed the (rather large) headshot damage bonus with the scrambler pistols at some point in a stealth nerf. I believe it was when uprising launched. Could've been 1.1. It used to be 450% damage out to 18m for a headshot. Now it's 110% bonus (if memory serves). Means I can't spec into assault scrambler pistols and dual wield them very easily anymore. = / Apparenlty the Flaylock is the only sidearm that's supposed to be used as a real weapon. Either way though, when specc'd into smg's are VERY dangerous weapons. Insane fire rate means if you get the damage up (and the enemies' shields down) you'll kill just about anyone. I (may end up) go(ing) Amarr assault, AScR and SMG... with the complex damage mods being for the smg. Because they rock the socks. I don't know what game you've been playing but I still get 450% headshot damage with my scrambler and other people have been saying the same. That wasn't changed at all ever.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 641	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:40:00 - [4] - Quote It's how it's supposed to be because it is defined as a sidearm in this game. Nothing says it better than that. It's a sidearm, which means it is not supposed to be as effective as a light weapon but uses up less CPU/PG and can be carried alongside any other weapon. In other games and real life the SMG might be as you describe but that is irrelevant to dust because CCP have made SMGs a different kind of weapon. And lots and lots of people use the SMG as a sidearm because it is great as a weapon to switch to in a hurry when your main needs reloading. All those weapons you've listed are light or heavy weapons and have far greater CPU/PG usage than the SMG and can't be fitted in a sidearm slot, so it's not a valid comparison. I'll say again, if you want the SMG to compete with light/heavy weapons, you're going to have to increase everything, including the CPU/PG. It would be a problem if you were using it as intended and it didn't perform but that's not the case. As I stated previously, I use the SMG and pistol exclusively and do very well with them. Finally, I'm glad you kicked butt with the SMG in MAG but keep in mind that this is not MAG and is a completely separate game with it's own intricacies and attributes.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 641	Posted - 2013.06.08 16:50:00 - [5] - Quote Asher Night wrote: You STILL did not tell me what you are basing your opinion off of. I'm sure as well as I did in MAG, you've never done anything like that ever. In every FPS I have at least a 2 to 1 KDR, except Dust. Resistance 1, Resistance 2, Resistance 3, two accounts on MAG (actually three but I stopped using the very first one), Battlefield 3 - yeah, I seriously doubt the problem is with me. The SMG needs to sit somewhere between the AR and the pistol. You mentioned sidearms, but what you didn't mention is how every sidearm stomps the SMG as it is. I am a scout in every game, so if I can't use the SMG, I'll use wither the pistol or knife. Since it takes so long to get skills in this game, I'm maining the knife, and I have to say, I can't remember a single scout that got the best of me with the SMG --- and I am bringing a knife to a gunfight. I'm fine with the SMG not being the best at anything, but right now it's not even good at anything. I love FPS's Ilove the scout class, I always play it, and I can honestly say, the scout class in this game takes way more effort to pull off than any other FPS I have ever played in my life. I am also calling into question what you consider "quite well". If you don't have a KDR of at least 2 to 1, then your opinions just aren't as valid. Sorry, that's just how it is. Once you prove you can take on 2 people, then you opinion will be worth hearing on making weapon decisions. Do you have a 2 to 1 KDR and don't drive vehicles? I don't get what you're missing about what I'm saying and I'm done trying to explain this to you, so here's one last try. It doesn't matter that you were awesome at all those games. That is irrelevant. This is a different game. The SMG is not the same in this game as it is in others. You must adapt appropriately. The SMG is better than the pistol and the flaylock in certain circumstances - close range and dancing around. You can't hit anyone with the pistol if their jumping and strafing all over the place. The SMG ROF means you are guaranteed a decent percentage of hits. You only get 3 shots with the flaylock, so you absolutely must make them count. The issues with the scout class are entirely separate from the issues you pertain to exist with the SMG. From what you've said in this thread so far, I suspect that you are trying to play the SMG the way you think it should be rather than the way it is. Try using it as described repeatedly by others in this thread and you will have a lot more success. As for your KDR assertion, clearly you think that your own opinion is worthless if you really think nobody with a KDR less than 2 is worth listening to and you say yourself that you don't in Dust.