DUST Search - This whole thing about "sidearms"...

Delta 749 wrote:

Asher Night wrote:

The Black Art wrote:

Well, the SMG was designed to be a backup weapon, y'know, a sidearm....
This ain't CoD where SMGs are top tier primary weapons.

This is such bull****. COMPLETE bull****. You clearly have never used an SMG, do not get the point of SMG's, and know nothing of the way of the scout.

If sidearms weren't designed to be mained, CCP would not have developed multiple fits you can buy for aurum that use sdearms and nothing else.

The mercenary pack features a scout with an SMG. One of the premade fits you can buy is a scout with just a pistol. CCP designed these fits themselves. You SHOULD be able to use an SMG and do just fine, but compared to how little damage they do, how short their range is, how weak the class is that would even like to use the weapon - it all adds up to make the SMG a complete waste of SP. The only time I see people use it is as a sidearm for their bigger, better weapon.

If the SMG wasn't designed to be mained THEN WHY THE HELL DOES IT TAKE SO MUSH CPU TO HOLD THE PROTOTYPE SMG'S?

Every weapon in this game is designed to be mained, if used correctly, but by using the SMG in the "correct" fashion the developers want you to use it - it's just to unfeasible .

It seems you are the one that clearly has not used an SMG or understands their role
Rapid fire, large clip size, generous coverage within its range, a damage type that tears up armor like no ones business

The SMG is clearly a sidearm meant to deal a finishing blow on an enemy after your primary has run dry/is not at optimal range/is weak against armor
I run the basic Assault - Medic set up when Im just playing to gather more ISK and I have to tell you so many of kills play out the same way, using the AR to eat up the enemies shield and then swapping over to the SMG for the finishing blows
Hell Ive gone toe to toe with heavies playing that way and won since the SMG cuts through armor like butter and you say they do little damage


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Asher Night The Dark Flock Omega Commission 86	Posted - 2013.06.08 11:25:00 - [1] - Quote The Black Art wrote: Well, the SMG was designed to be a backup weapon, y'know, a sidearm.... This ain't CoD where SMGs are top tier primary weapons. This is such bull**. COMPLETE bull**. You clearly have never used an SMG, do not get the point of SMG's, and know nothing of the way of the scout. If sidearms weren't designed to be mained, CCP would not have developed multiple fits you can buy for aurum that use sdearms and nothing else. The mercenary pack features a scout with an SMG. One of the premade fits you can buy is a scout with just a pistol. CCP designed these fits themselves. You SHOULD be able to use an SMG and do just fine, but compared to how little damage they do, how short their range is, how weak the class is that would even like to use the weapon - it all adds up to make the SMG a complete waste of SP. The only time I see people use it is as a sidearm for their bigger, better weapon. If the SMG wasn't designed to be mained THEN WHY THE HELL DOES IT TAKE SO MUSH CPU TO HOLD THE PROTOTYPE SMG'S? Every weapon in this game is designed to be mained, if used correctly, but by using the SMG in the "correct" fashion the developers want you to use it - it's just to unfeasible .
Asher Night The Dark Flock Omega Commission 86	Posted - 2013.06.08 11:28:00 - [2] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Ha! Seriously? You've been using them a few days and think they need a buff? I've used only a pistol and SMG as my sole weapons for the past 2 months and there's zero wrong with them. Use the scrambler for a bit of range and the SMG for close encounters or when you've got the shields down. Keep in mind that they are sidearms and don't have great range. Take your time with the pistol to maximise your chance of getting the headshot. Jump and strafe all over the place when using the SMG and consider speccing up to the assault variants. Speccing up the pistol is a huge help as well because you get the extra rounds in the clip. Remember that as they are sidearms, they take up a lot less CPU/PG than light or heavy weapons, so you've got a lot more fitting room for modules. A pistol for longer range, SMG for close range. Just think about that for a second. Hopefully if you think about it long enough, I won't have to explain to you why it's ridiculously stupid, and points out how useless the SMG is. Do I have to explain what is wrong about this to you?
Asher Night The Dark Flock Omega Commission 87	Posted - 2013.06.08 13:16:00 - [3] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Asher Night wrote: The Black Art wrote: Well, the SMG was designed to be a backup weapon, y'know, a sidearm.... This ain't CoD where SMGs are top tier primary weapons. This is such bull**. COMPLETE bull**. You clearly have never used an SMG, do not get the point of SMG's, and know nothing of the way of the scout. If sidearms weren't designed to be mained, CCP would not have developed multiple fits you can buy for aurum that use sdearms and nothing else. The mercenary pack features a scout with an SMG. One of the premade fits you can buy is a scout with just a pistol. CCP designed these fits themselves. You SHOULD be able to use an SMG and do just fine, but compared to how little damage they do, how short their range is, how weak the class is that would even like to use the weapon - it all adds up to make the SMG a complete waste of SP. The only time I see people use it is as a sidearm for their bigger, better weapon. If the SMG wasn't designed to be mained THEN WHY THE HELL DOES IT TAKE SO MUSH CPU TO HOLD THE PROTOTYPE SMG'S? Every weapon in this game is designed to be mained, if used correctly, but by using the SMG in the "correct" fashion the developers want you to use it - it's just to unfeasible . It seems you are the one that clearly has not used an SMG or understands their role Rapid fire, large clip size, generous coverage within its range, a damage type that tears up armor like no ones business The SMG is clearly a sidearm meant to deal a finishing blow on an enemy after your primary has run dry/is not at optimal range/is weak against armor I run the basic Assault - Medic set up when Im just playing to gather more ISK and I have to tell you so many of kills play out the same way, using the AR to eat up the enemies shield and then swapping over to the SMG for the finishing blows Hell Ive gone toe to toe with heavies playing that way and won since the SMG cuts through armor like butter and you say they do little damage You know what? I'am actually working on a topic right now that is going to point out to you how incredibly wrong you are about me and the SMG. I'll give you a sneak peek. [IMG]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm16/OreoVII/20130608_043501_zps350f0873.jpg[/IMG] This game has things wrong. No other game makes the SMG this weak and worthless. No other game makes the SMG something you can't main. What you are saying goes against other people who are even on you side. Meant to deal the finishing blow? You clearly made that up. I DARE you to find where a developer said that. If it's meant to deal a finishing blow (God, that just sounds stupid to say), then again I point out the Dragonfly Scout from the mercenary pack, and refer you to the people in this topic who are saying you CAN main the SMG just fine.
Asher Night The Dark Flock Omega Commission 88	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:18:00 - [4] - Quote Django Quik wrote: @Asher Night - You're an angry one aren't you? No need to be so hostile towards people having a discussion. At the end of the day the SMG and the pistol are both sidearms. Yes, they can be mained but unless you're really good with them you're not going to get anywhere near the same kill count as light weapons. If you want them to be able to stand up against light weapons like the AR, they're going to need to be upgraded to light weapon fitting requirements (i.e. CPU and PG). 1) It really doesn't matter what you think the SMG should be like compared to other games or real life; it's not designed to be like that in this game. It is what it is and 2 used in a certain way and in the right hands, it's a great weapon that doesn't need changing. It also makes sense that a single shot pistol should have a longer effective range than a fully automatic weapon with an extreme rate of fire. I look forward to your apparently well thought out definitive post on this matter. I'm not mad just passionate and sleep deprived. I'm sure I would like drinking a beer and playing darts with any of you. 1) Again I say, show me proof that this is how it's supposed to be. People seem to think they are only supposed to be used at super close range, which is not how SMG's ever were designed. That's something Hollywood/video games made up. CCP is surely going to notice how few people use the SMG, and will change it so that more people do. If people aren't using the things in their game, it just means their game is that less playable, and that less appealing. If people can't use what's in the game, they are closer to not using (playing) the game. You should send me a friend request so I can rub it in your face when they buff the SMG's . They have to. Too few people actually utilize them, and I've seen plenty of topics with people complaining how weak they are. The only problem is SMG's are already an obscure "niche" weapon, so no one really knows what mindset to approach them with. For a video game, SMG's should be effective at mid range, devastating at close range. Basically like an HMG, but with less damage and ammo. If they aren't devastating at close range, or accurate at longer range, then there is no point in using the SMG. Shotguns, mines, fuse grenades, Mass drivers, AR's, HMG's - EVERY WEAPON outperforms it at close range save for a sniper rifle. 2) That's a pretty obligatory thing to say that makes me think you don't actually ever use SMG's ever, lol You could say the same thing about an weapon that was ever made really. "A stick with poo on the end in the right hands used in the right way doesn't need changing". See? I know you think the SMG is operating as intended, but I implore you to show me your logic and evidence for thinking this. It seems this is just your opinion, and you are asserting it as fact.
Asher Night The Dark Flock Omega Commission 88	Posted - 2013.06.08 15:59:00 - [5] - Quote Django Quik wrote: It's how it's supposed to be because it is defined as a sidearm in this game. Nothing says it better than that. It's a sidearm, which means it is not supposed to be as effective as a light weapon but uses up less CPU/PG and can be carried alongside any other weapon. In other games and real life the SMG might be as you describe but that is irrelevant to dust because CCP have made SMGs a different kind of weapon. And lots and lots of people use the SMG as a sidearm because it is great as a weapon to switch to in a hurry when your main needs reloading. All those weapons you've listed are light or heavy weapons and have far greater CPU/PG usage than the SMG and can't be fitted in a sidearm slot, so it's not a valid comparison. I'll say again, if you want the SMG to compete with light/heavy weapons, you're going to have to increase everything, including the CPU/PG. It would be a problem if you were using it as intended and it didn't perform but that's not the case. As I stated previously, I use the SMG and pistol exclusively and do very well with them. Finally, I'm glad you kicked butt with the SMG in MAG but keep in mind that this is not MAG and is a completely separate game with it's own intricacies and attributes. You STILL did not tell me what you are basing your opinion off of. I'm sure as well as I did in MAG, you've never done anything like that ever. In every FPS I have at least a 2 to 1 KDR, except Dust. Resistance 1, Resistance 2, Resistance 3, two accounts on MAG (actually three but I stopped using the very first one), Battlefield 3 - yeah, I seriously doubt the problem is with me. The SMG needs to sit somewhere between the AR and the pistol. You mentioned sidearms, but what you didn't mention is how every sidearm stomps the SMG as it is. I am a scout in every game, so if I can't use the SMG, I'll use wither the pistol or knife. Since it takes so long to get skills in this game, I'm maining the knife, and I have to say, I can't remember a single scout that got the best of me with the SMG. I'm fine with the SMG not being the best at anything, but right now it's not even good at anything. I love FPS's Ilove the scout class, I always play it, and I can honestly say, the scout class in this game takes way more effort to pull off than any other FPS I have ever played in my life. I am also calling into question what you consider "quite well". If you don't have a KDR of at least 2 to 1, then your opinions just aren't as valid. Sorry, that's just how it is. Once you prove you can take on 2 people, then you opinion will be worth hearing on making weapon decisions. Do you have a 2 to 1 KDR and don't drive vehicles?