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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
40
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Posted - 2013.06.07 17:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Let's break this down simply:
Regular infantry = rock: You're regular infantry come with weapons such as ARs, shotguns, nova knives, MDs, anti-infantry grenades etc. that are great for killing other infantry, including AV infantry who are not very good at killing you back, but are utter crap vs. vehicles.
Vehicles = paper: Vehicles can roam around the battlefield, either nearly immune to regular infantry weapons (tanks) or too agile for them to be effective unless you stand still (LAVs and Dropships). However Swarm launchers, AV grenades, forge guns, and other AV weapons are the bane of your existence.
AV infantry = scissors: You sacrifice regular infantry weapons that are great for killing other infantry to be able to easily take on vehicles much more easily. By taking cover in places that are hard for vehicles to reach and shooting them with your heavy damage weapons you really make their life hell. But you tend to get stomped all over when you come up against the AR toting masses.
The game has been so kind as to make it so ANYONE can play rock, paper, or scissors, by providing us with free AR and sniper suits, free AV suits, and the free LAV everyone keeps moaning about.
Let's apply what we've learned: Your team is getting pushed to the red line by 3 tanks and 2 LAVs. What do you spawn? Reg inf, AV inf, or vehicles? If you're my team from earlier today, then apparently your answer is regular infantry! Congrats! You lost a game elementary schoolers are able to comprehend!
The vehicle "problem" isn't an issue of balance. It's an issue of idiots playing rock every single time and wondering why the matches are starting to fill up with paper.
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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 18:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:yep AV grenades are so powerful fully specced lav's can take 11 of them and keep on trucking >.>
I can fire my averagely specced swarm launchers all day and they don't even bother wiping the blood off their windshields to see what hit them.
seriously I get vehicle drivers never want their **** to die, but their is nothing wrong with av greandes, to any seriously specced vehicle driver they are a joke, that can easily be dodged but most decide to be stubborn about it and ty to tank 10+ of them.
PS. I have 0 points in vehicle command. I play AV, and can confirm you are full of crap.
Kitten Empress wrote:Militia AV does **** against current LAV's.
My BPO LAV with BPO fittings and zero skills invested into vehicles doesn't get scratched by militia AV.
Funny. When I hit LAV's with my standard and before that militia AV they didn't seem to be not taking a scratch or wiping it off their windshield. Then mainly seemed to be blowing the hell up. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
46
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Posted - 2013.06.07 18:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:The problem is that in this case the paper is free, the scissors are not.
Um.... yes they are. Starter AV is free, and is fully capable of taking down an unmodified or even modified free LAV if you know what you're doing with it. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
49
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Posted - 2013.06.07 18:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Before the LAV buff, road killing wasn't a big deal because one AV or one Swarm could take out the free LAV's.
Before the LAV buff, the only people who ever rolled LAVs where new players who wanted to test a vehicle and didn't know how much they sucked.
I remember in beta I would hop in LAV's before I realised that 1 hit from a militia SL would take down all your shields and most your armor. That was unless you already had a bit of damage. Then you just straight up died.
So once I got that through my head I just stopped using them.
By extension AV was what you pulled if someone spawned a tank. With tanks being as expensive as they are you could go entire matches where nobody pulled a tank, and only 1-2 scrubs pull an LAV.
Now because people actually use vehicles, I can go entire matches in my AV suit. That is freaking awesome.
So what if someone who tanks their LAV can take a few hits? I use the terrain to my advantage so it isn't a big deal.
Now that I'm really getting into and starting to enjoy my AV roll. The rock crowd is crying "Take it back to rock, rock, rock!!!"
Screw that. Vehicles are a part of this game and people shouldn't be able to 1 shot them with weapons that lock on SUPER easy just because you don't like having to adapt. I want to continue playing AV as a real role. Not a turkey shoot that any newb can pull off easy. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
49
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Posted - 2013.06.07 18:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Then make Plasma launchers a one shot against LAV's.
I wouldn't moan about that as long as it took a direct hit on an unmodified LAV. By extension they would actually become useful against tanks then.
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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
58
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Posted - 2013.06.08 08:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
SLs aren't really OP and don't need a nerf. The reason they are so much better than plasmas is because plasmas are seriously UP. Lets put the nerfbat away and just buff something for once. Pretty sure 99% of the community either favors a buff for the plasma or don't care one way or another. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
58
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Posted - 2013.06.08 08:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
N311V wrote:I haven't even playing all that long so I don't know what LAVs were like before but I can say they're pretty damn annoying now. From the sounds of things it's not an easy vehicle to balance, make them weaker and they're useless for what I assume is they're intended purpose, troop transport. Regardless I hope CCP come up with a fix soon as at the moment around 50% of my deaths are from being hit by a buggy, quite a frustrating way to die in an FPS game.
They aren't really for troop transport.
There is a driver, a gunner, and a passenger. Light vehicle kind of like a jeep with a turret on the back. Sounds really similar to another vehicle from an extremely popular FPS... a warthog... though it look's more like a puma. ;)
The vehicle the LAV is pretty obviously modeled after is mainly used for gunning people down, and... running them over. Anyone who's ever played any version Halo will know the front end of a warthog is nearly as dangerous as it's turret.
In this game you don't see much turret use because LAV turrets are way underpowered when the vehicle is moving at high speeds. I wish LAV's gave a role bonus to their turrets that made them worth using. Especially to their tracking speed and refire rate / charge time.
I would have thought even on the PS3 people would make the obvious connection but apparently not. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
58
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Posted - 2013.06.08 08:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:What a narrow minded point of view. What a lot of people forget here is that you are rarely 1v1.
I'm fully aware of it. You seem to be the one forgetting it. You are talking about how you personally can't counter vehicles. Don't. Find a buddy who is good with AV and squad with him. Someone who runs SL and SMG or Flaylock can be dedicated AV and still help you out a bit in-between vehicles. And forge guns can work too if the user is really good. I actually got more infantry kills than vehicle kills with my FG today. >:)
And spare me the narrow minded crap. You aren't any more open minded than I am. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
59
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Posted - 2013.06.08 09:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:As I mentioned previously, you can take on one LAV (if you're good or lucky), and that's it and you have to restock.
Only if you are relying in AV nades to fill you AV role. AV nades are... grenades... not a primary weapon. As such they have weaknesses compared to SLs and forge guns which are the primary weapons of the players who use them. Do you really think people should have access to assault rifles and AV as good as SL's and forges on the same dropsuit?
Those are both good for multiple LAVs in the hands of semi accurate user. I mean really, a SL can take down most tanks if the user lives / maintains line of sight long enough to do it solo. A forgegun EASILY can. That's before speccing into increased ammo or equipping a nanohive. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
61
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Posted - 2013.06.08 10:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:As for your reply, it doesn't make sense. Yes I can spec into whatever I want but that's the catch, I have to spec into it. I shouldn't have to spec into anything to effectively take out militia LAV's. Taking out anything else on the other hand, is fine.
Before you tell me that GÇ£You don't, it's called militia AVGÇ¥ - Militia LAV's take 3 packed AV grenades to kill, and at least two militia swarms (which means you can hardly fight infantry at all). I have no problem with your arguments against strong vehicles, if I want to take out GÇ£logilavsGÇ¥ then I should spec into better AV.
You should have to take additional specs and suffer some hardships to take out vehicles if you are dedicated AV. If everyone is running around with effective and easy to obtain AV all the time, nobody will ever pull vehicles.
As I stated in an earlier post, in beta I learned to just stop hopping in people's LAVs because they died so fast I knew it was just feeding the enemy kills.
Now I see vehicle use. Not as heavy as people would think it is by reading the forums, but enough that it's not all infantry with tanks occasionally coming in and dominating a match like it used to be. 70%+ of the times I died today were from AR's and you can raise that to 90%+ if you include snipers, SMGs, and Scrams.
Anyone calling for a nerf on regular ARs? Not actually suggesting one. Just saying. Seems like the AR toting masses are out to get everything nerfed but their weapon of choice.
But there are vehicles. And that's good. If it gets to a point where vehicles (and therefore AV) aren't viable in this game, I'll have no interest in playing. I hate infantry centric FPS's. Vehicles add a lot more strategy and make it a bit less stacked in the teenage twitch monster's favor. |
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Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
65
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Posted - 2013.06.08 18:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:ps ~ the current alteration to LAV physics may still need looked at, the total lack of momentum loss when running hostiles down seems a bit off.
Implement a SIGNIFICANT bonus to the tracking speed and refire rate of LAV turrets and I'll fully support this. Hell I'll even support turning it into a 300-500 damage + knockback thing so that proto's and heavies can survive it if they make the turret worth using. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
65
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Posted - 2013.06.08 20:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
XD. Ok so all this talk about LAVs being OP convinced me to fool around with them a bit. I've been screwing with snipers rifles recently because I saw the charged version is worth less than 3000 ISK. 
So anyway my strategy has been spawn in, call an LAV, and use it to move around the map as needed so I can get good vantage points as a sniper as the battle shifts.
Anyway, I get dropped into a match that is already part way through and call in an LAV. After I get my LAV, I figured "Let's get a good look at the battle and see if I can run down an easy target or two, before I go set up a position."
So I go down and it turns out the main enemy position was in the middle of this low spot you could drive a vehicle right through. I go barreling through there take a dude or two out, fly back out onto the the road, hit someone running around back there, go barreling back in.
After 6 enemy guys end up hood ornaments within the span of about two minutes, my shields are finally about to go down, so I go running off to find a place to recharge when I hear the distinctive sound of someone shooting a SL. I bailed on the spot and go sprinting for cover.
Some enemy dude coming for revenge comes charging at me and a furious SMG battle ensues, which ended with me at about 1/6th armor meleeing him in the face.
Then I pop up into my sniper vantage point and start taking pop shots. Get a couple assists but everyone was too tanked and moving around too much to take them out with my standard sniper rifle. Then the match ended with a tank and several enemies charging my position. XD
Final score 7 kill / 2 assists / 0 deaths. Freaking awesome match for not getting spawned in until the last few minutes.
Moral of the story: When I heard the SL I bailed and ran. XD |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
80
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Posted - 2013.06.11 00:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
The "free LAVs shouldn't be able to kill protos" argument is non-sense in my opinion.
To put if in different terms, this would be a similar scenario;
"Our infantry got ridden down by cavalry. Cavalry is so OP. I took a bunch of highly skilled swordsmen with the best swords and armor money could buy, marched them onto an open field, and they were ridden down by a bunch of peasants on cart horses using rusty chainmail and lances that amounted to sharpened sticks!"
"How many pikes did you deploy?"
"Well... none.... we prefer swords because they are really good against other infantry..."
"So you faced lancers on an open field with swordsmen...."
"Yeah but they were really good swordsmen and those cavalry were crap!"
"No... your tactics were crap... I fought the same group with cheap crossbow wielding militia in the forest and utterly destroyed them."
LAVs can't go to all the same places infantry can. Fight from rocks or buildings with some AV and they can't touch you but you can destroy them. Stand in places they can easily go plowing through and deploy few to AV, and you will be utterly destroyed. You deserve to be utterly destroyed. Proto suits are designed to make you better at your chosen role, not to let you stomp everyone without using skills or tactics.
In the last match I played I started by pulling my free Ikushune LAV. The enemies were all holding back except one standing in a rough spot. I drove around awhile getting no kills while the enemy spawned more and more LAVs until I rolled trying to get the guy in the rough spot and had to flee back into the city. After that I switched to my new 0 ISK AV BPO build. I fought from the gate of the facility ducking in as LAVs came through. Killed 2 LAVs and a tank for a total of 6 kills. Died to enemy ASSAULT RIFLES twice for a final score of 6 kills / 4 assists / 2 deaths. |
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