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Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
207
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Posted - 2013.06.06 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok first off before anyone screams "BECAUSE THEIR SHIPS ARE SLOWER IN EVE THEREFORE IN DUST AMARR PLAYERS MUST BE SLOW," cool your jets. I'm aware that Amarr ships in EVE are slower, so by the law that governs video games, that speed penalty should translate into DUST.
My question though is why?
Yes, Amarr tend to be armor tankers which means armor plates which leads to speed penalties, but so do the Gallente. The Gallente are also armor tankers yet their suits do not suffer from an across the board speed penalty.
I would like to assume that it is a balancing method to counterbalance the fact that the Amarr suits have a hefty amount of PG and CPU in comparison to the other suits. I assume it would be imbalanced to allow the Amarr suits to have a nice chunk of PG and CPU AND be as quick as the other suits as well. Then again, the Amarr suits "need" the larger PG and CPU values in order to fit their complementary laser weapons (although which weapons a person uses is to their own discretion).
I'm in no way upset about the fact the Amarr have the speed penalty and I have adapted, I just want a legitimate reason as to why they have the penalty.
I'd hate to think the reason simply is - Amarr EVE ships are slow therefore let's make the Amarr DUST characters slow as well by having them take a hit to their base sprint and movement speed. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4225
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amarr suits also have the most base health (I should know, I use them). |
Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
153
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Amarr have a speed penalty? Hmm. Hasn't hampered my medium suits...or my LAVs. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
207
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Amarr suits also have the most base health (I should know, I use them).
Yeah, forgot about that.
180 Shield and 180 Armor. |
Jin Robot
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
826
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
List the pros and cons, not just the cons. Amarr have advantages other suits do not, but are slower. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
585
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Amarr suits also have the most base health (I should know, I use them). while they have the least amount of slots and that extra hp is what like 30hp more? so less then one advanced shield extender.. |
Aetos Vahara
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:I'd hate to think the reason simply is - Amarr EVE ships are slow therefore let's make the Amarr DUST characters slow as well by having them take a hit to their base sprint and movement speed.
I never knew that the Amarr ships in EVE was slow, but I agree to an extent in that the ships and the mercs shouldn't be compared in stats other than cosmetic designs. It is really unfair to have the Gallente having speed advantages over the Amarr when it comes to armors. Armors are heavy. If the Amarr is the most technologically advanced, then their armors should be slimmer and the Gallente would be on equal footing with each other. The Gallente may be organic looking, but they should have the movement penalty and not the Amarr. The Amarrs know their armors well and should be able to handle them well without any penalties. |
Aero Yassavi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
58
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
More cons, Amarr have less slots than other racial variants. It's pretty present with the Assault but it's really obvious with the Logistics. |
Relkina Alabastar
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
0
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
The answer is very simple. The filthy Amarr have to stop after every step a reflect on their own perceived superiority. |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
162
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Posted - 2013.06.06 17:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's weird that Amar medium suits are slower than Gallente which have more armor. I would have thought medium suits would be, from fastest to slowest, Caldari (lowest armor), Amar (2nd lowest armor), Gallente (highest armor). |
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Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
212
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chinduko wrote:It's weird that Amar medium suits are slower than Gallente which have more armor. I would have thought medium suits would be, from fastest to slowest, Caldari (lowest armor), Amar (2nd lowest armor), Gallente (highest armor).
But that would make too much sense.
The more I think about it, unfortunately, the more it feels like CCP just kind of slapped this penalty on the Amarr suits. |
Xender17
Intrepidus XI
149
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Out of all mediums I have to say Amarr is beefiest. It looks armored so I do expect that is slower. The gallente are the skinniest. It also seem they would have better shields and be faster. Minmatar look hefty to me so I would think they would be slow. But I guess not. The caladari just looks balanced. |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
101
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Better tanks...so there needs to be a drawback. |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
164
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Out of all mediums I have to say Amarr is beefiest. It looks armored so I do expect that is slower. The gallente are the skinniest. It also seem they would have better shields and be faster. Minmatar look hefty to me so I would think they would be slow. But I guess not. The caladari just looks balanced.
You bring up a good point. The Amar medium does look beefy, as if it had more armor. It seems like the Amar should have been the armor suit and Gallente should have been the balanced suit, just by appearance. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
212
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Better tanks...so there needs to be a drawback.
Gallente Proto gets four lows while the Amarr Proto has three - how does the Amarr Proto Assault therefore then have a better tank?
That fourth slot makes a difference. |
Aero Yassavi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
60
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Better tanks...so there needs to be a drawback. Gallente Proto gets four lows while the Amarr Proto has three - how does the Amarr Proto Assault therefore then have a better tank? That fourth slot makes a difference. And before anyone says "Well Amarr also get's 3 high slots" keep in mind the Gallente does too.
Gallente Assault: 3 high, 4 low Amarr Assault: 3 high, 3 low |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
101
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Better tanks...so there needs to be a drawback. Gallente Proto gets four lows while the Amarr Proto has three - how does the Amarr Proto Assault therefore then have a better tank? That fourth slot makes a difference.
Split tanking...and fitting. |
Aero Yassavi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
60
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Better tanks...so there needs to be a drawback. Gallente Proto gets four lows while the Amarr Proto has three - how does the Amarr Proto Assault therefore then have a better tank? That fourth slot makes a difference. Split tanking...and fitting. And as others have said...higher base health which quite frankly is reason enough. Gallente gets the same amount of High slots as Amarr. And before you say, "Well Amarr gets a bit more CPU," that 4th low slot they have can be used for a fitting module.
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Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
203
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would guess its since the Gallente use a more high tech light weight alloy.
While the amarr get more armour by using more metal(I think gold, cause it looks like gold) |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
212
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is what I've done to get some speed out of the Amarr medium.
I call it my wannabe Amarr Scout Placeholder fit.
http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h436/Alex_Cotman/20130606_094928_zpsd81dc7ad.jpg |
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Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
304
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Amarr trade some speed and a slot for a lot of extra CPU/PG and some HP. My friend who fully specced into Amarr can fit all proto, while I'm struggling figuring out what to turn down a level and what to turn up. |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
203
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
That reminds me of the old caldari assaults from the last build. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
212
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:That reminds me of the old caldari assaults from the last build.
I knew someone would say it XD |
Aero Yassavi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
60
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Amarr trade some speed and a slot for a lot of extra CPU/PG and some HP. My friend who fully specced into Amarr can fit all proto, while I'm struggling figuring out what to turn down a level and what to turn up. You sure he doesn't just have his Electronics and Engineering trained higher? Amarr doesn't get much more CPU/PG, especially considering Gallente can counter it with a fitting mod in that bonus low slot they get.
Cody Sietz wrote:I would guess its since the Gallente use a more high tech light weight alloy.
While the amarr get more armour by using more metal(I think gold, cause it looks like gold) We're looking for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
392
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Amarr tend to buffer tank, having massive amounts of armor. Gallente tend to rely on repairing their armor rather than just having lots of it. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1789
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Posted - 2013.06.06 18:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Amarr have giant back packs, Gallente do not.
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Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
392
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 18:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:We're looking for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons. You haven't been around New Eden too long, have you? |
Aero Yassavi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
60
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Halador Osiris wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:We're looking for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons. You haven't been around New Eden too long, have you? Nope, nor do I care how EVE has done thinks. This is an FPS, gameplay always comes first. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1791
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Halador Osiris wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:We're looking for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons. You haven't been around New Eden too long, have you? Nope, nor do I care how EVE has done thinks. This is an FPS, gameplay always comes first. And for what reason do you believe that the Amarr suit should be as fast as other suits? |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
307
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Kitten Empress wrote:Amarr trade some speed and a slot for a lot of extra CPU/PG and some HP. My friend who fully specced into Amarr can fit all proto, while I'm struggling figuring out what to turn down a level and what to turn up. You sure he doesn't just have his Electronics and Engineering trained higher? Amarr doesn't get much more CPU/PG, especially considering Gallente can counter it with a fitting mod in that bonus low slot they get. Cody Sietz wrote:I would guess its since the Gallente use a more high tech light weight alloy.
While the amarr get more armour by using more metal(I think gold, cause it looks like gold) We're looking for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons. We both got everything maxed. The higher base CPU/PG makes it so that the 30% bonus from all the skills together give a bigger bonus to the Amarr suit. Also, I'm too busy fitting armor plates and repps, because I must use every slot for it or else I will either have bad eHP or bad regen. So using up CPU/PG slots is the last thing I want to do. Though even when I dedicate all of my slots I sitll have bad both. Because CCP doesn't know the meaning of balance when it comes to armor vs shields. (It took them 10 years in EVE to even START balancing) |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
586
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think I got it, the amarr are meant to be a class lower than it. the assault amarr is meant to be the amarr scout and the amarr logi is meant to be the assault amarr and here is the big kicker the amarr heavy is meant to be the amarr logi so wait im sure a heavier amarr class is coming out. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
214
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 19:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
ladwar wrote:I think I got it, the amarr are meant to be a class lower than it. the assault amarr is meant to be the amarr scout and the amarr logi is meant to be the assault amarr and here is the big kicker the amarr heavy is meant to be the amarr logi so wait im sure a heavier amarr class is coming out.
If anything reverse the order.
I have a feeling once the Amarr Scout is released, it too will be slapped with a speed penalty and be marked as an "Amarr Light Assault" rather than a true Amarr Scout. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
162
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Posted - 2013.06.06 19:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
The amarr have the highest base EHP, both shields and armor, the idea behind the Amarr speed penalty is that they were meant to have the highest EHP of all the suits but because of some suit imbalances they do not come out on top, your best bet is to repost this thread after uprising 1.2 which will add some extra balancing to your suit and the Gallente suits. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
61
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Halador Osiris wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:We're looking for gameplay reasons, not lore reasons. You haven't been around New Eden too long, have you? Nope, nor do I care how EVE has done thinks. This is an FPS, gameplay always comes first. And for what reason do you believe that the Amarr suit should be as fast as other suits? Well for one Amarr has the least amount of high and low slots. Also Gallente has more armor than Amarr yet is faster. |
Arrach Sarkal
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 20:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I would guess its since the Gallente use a more high tech light weight alloy.
While the amarr get more armour by using more metal(I think gold, cause it looks like gold) Amarr ships are armoured with tungsten carbide armour plates.
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ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2013.06.06 20:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Relkina Alabastar wrote:The answer is very simple. The filthy Amarr have to stop after every step a reflect on their own perceived superiority.
/thread
Everything beyond that does not exist. |
Pilgrim Plymco
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
25
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Posted - 2013.06.06 20:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:
Yes, Amarr tend to be armor tankers which means armor plates which leads to speed penalties, but so do the Gallente. The Gallente are also armor tankers yet their suits do not suffer from an across the board speed penalty.
I would like to assume that it is a balancing method to counterbalance the fact that the Amarr suits have a hefty amount of PG and CPU in comparison to the other suits. I assume it would be imbalanced to allow the Amarr suits to have a nice chunk of PG and CPU AND be as quick as the other suits as well. Then again, the Amarr suits "need" the larger PG and CPU values in order to fit their complementary laser weapons (although which weapons a person uses is to their own discretion).
http://bhdclan.enjin.com/forum/editpost/40862052/m/5664801
The amarr assault suits have a bonus to laser rifle overheating
- The amarr, compared to gallente, assault also has more max CPU/PG while having a bit of a speed penalty, would you like to remove the CPU/PG advantage in order to get rid of the speed penalty?
- If you add up the total shield/armor for the amarr it comes to 360, if you add it for gallente it is 330, again you have more shield/armor total in the amarr than the gallente would you want to remove that advantage to increase the speed?
- The amarr recharge delay is 6 while the gallente is 7, again same question...are you willing to lose this to gain the speed?
- The amarr sprint duration is 20 while Gallente is only 15.......this is because amarr's stamina is 200 while gallente is only 150..are you willing to lose stamina for speed?
- Amarr stamina recharge rate is 20 while gallente is also 15, again.......same question.
I think you didn't look deep enough at the stats before using the Gallente class in your example.
Do you want me to do this for a different class of suit? If you are not an assault suit user I can do the comparisons for whatever class you want. It is the same for the scout, logi, and heavy when comparing amarr to gallente and I do have all the stats right here if you would like me to post anything. |
matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
7
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Posted - 2013.06.06 20:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
the amarr assault seems ok in terms of balance, the logi should have like 1 more slot, and probably at least the same pg as the assault
in reality it's base speed isn't so poor you can't move on its the fact you have 3/3 so you want some armor some shield and the split tanks costs more sp, ok, fine not so bad, but then you get speed penalized again by plates, and end up with like the same movement as a heavy ... |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
215
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Posted - 2013.06.06 21:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Pilgrim Plymco wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:
Yes, Amarr tend to be armor tankers which means armor plates which leads to speed penalties, but so do the Gallente. The Gallente are also armor tankers yet their suits do not suffer from an across the board speed penalty.
I would like to assume that it is a balancing method to counterbalance the fact that the Amarr suits have a hefty amount of PG and CPU in comparison to the other suits. I assume it would be imbalanced to allow the Amarr suits to have a nice chunk of PG and CPU AND be as quick as the other suits as well. Then again, the Amarr suits "need" the larger PG and CPU values in order to fit their complementary laser weapons (although which weapons a person uses is to their own discretion).
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85270&p=2 The amarr assault suits have a bonus to laser rifle overheating
- The amarr, compared to gallente, assault also has more max CPU/PG while having a bit of a speed penalty, would you like to remove the CPU/PG advantage in order to get rid of the speed penalty?
- If you add up the total shield/armor for the amarr it comes to 360, if you add it for gallente it is 330, again you have more shield/armor total in the amarr than the gallente would you want to remove that advantage to increase the speed?
- The amarr recharge delay is 6 while the gallente is 7, again same question...are you willing to lose this to gain the speed?
- The amarr sprint duration is 20 while Gallente is only 15.......this is because amarr's stamina is 200 while gallente is only 150..are you willing to lose stamina for speed?
- Amarr stamina recharge rate is 20 while gallente is also 15, again.......same question.
I think you didn't look deep enough at the stats before using the Gallente class in your example. Do you want me to do this for a different class of suit? If you are not an assault suit user I can do the comparisons for whatever class you want. It is the same for the scout, logi, and heavy when comparing amarr to gallente and I do have all the stats right here if you would like me to post anything.
Yeah I'd give them up.
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Omen Astrul
Red Star. EoN.
21
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Posted - 2013.06.12 13:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bump.
Amarr gets a little extra HP in exchange for a slot (which could more than make up for that HP). So in reality its strength is also a weakness.
And on top of that, it gets a reduction in movement speed.....
Please CCP, remove the speed reduction. |
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Aran Abbas
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
72
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Posted - 2013.06.12 14:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Because they're not a progressive culture |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
809
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Posted - 2013.06.12 14:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
War skirts come at a hefty cost.
But you look damn sexy while you trudge through the sand. |
Kinky Burrito
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS
15
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Posted - 2013.06.12 15:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
You guys are forgetting Amarr have by far the highest stamina. So yes, my Amarr logi is a little slower, but over distance he is actually faster because I can sprint farther and recover stamina faster.
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Omen Astrul
Red STar. EoN.
71
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Posted - 2013.07.08 00:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bump.
Reduce stamina but increase movement speed so it's inline with other suits' base speed.
All the advantages of the amarr suit are balanced by the -1 slot. The movement penalty is just one straw too many. |
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