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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
588
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 10:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
It doesn't really fill a role that isn't filled already.
It has been released in an over nerfed state.
It requires an unreasonable amount of player skill due to the amount of difficulty variables required for its use.
For example:
Forge gun
Difficulties: Requires a heavy suit, has a charge timer and a moderate range. You have to lead moderately for infantry.
Plasma Cannon
Difficulties:
Has a charge timer, has a reload timer (between shots) effectively giving it double the length of time on it second shot. It has the lowest damage of all the AV weapons (hence the first difficulty is exaggerted). It requires a player to time a shot, judge angle AND lead the shot due to its slow firing making it unfeasable for DS3 users to hit fast moving targets.
There are also reports of it being buggy and and having hit detection issues.
Solutions: One or more of these difficulties has to go.
1. Remove the fire arc.
Or
2. Increase damage.
Or
3. Remove charge timer
Or
4. Increase clip size. And give it a ROF (less than the time it takes to reload).
Only one of these has to be implimented in order to make it usuable at least. At the present state you would have to be bonkers to use and invest SP in it. |
Jenova's Witness
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
154
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Posted - 2013.06.04 11:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above. Judging by the lack of people using it as well, the plasma cannon is too impractical as an intended AV weapon in its current state. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 11:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
My vote goes to removing the firing arc and increasing the damage and also increasing the projectile speed (change the skill from charge up timer reduction to projectile velocity bonus) and you have yourself an honestly mean AV weapon that still fills a minor anti-infantry role.
The single shot clip, low ammunition, and charge-to-fire attitude more than justify the change. It's not a bad weapon as it is, there's just no reason to use it over the Forge Gun or Swarm Launcher except for "badass" points. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
589
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 11:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: It's not a bad weapon as it is, there's just no reason to use it over the Forge Gun or Swarm Launcher except for "badass" points.
I liked this sentence.
I agree there is a certain amount of bro punching that goes on for the brave soul who actually uses one of these custard launchers. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
200
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 11:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:My vote goes to removing the firing arc and increasing the damage and also increasing the projectile speed (change the skill from charge up timer reduction to projectile velocity bonus) and you have yourself an honestly mean AV weapon that still fills a minor anti-infantry role.
The single shot clip, low ammunition, and charge-to-fire attitude more than justify the change. It's not a bad weapon as it is, there's just no reason to use it over the Forge Gun or Swarm Launcher except for "badass" points. The only other reason being that it's a light weapon, so you don't have to be a heavy. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:My vote goes to removing the firing arc and increasing the damage and also increasing the projectile speed (change the skill from charge up timer reduction to projectile velocity bonus) and you have yourself an honestly mean AV weapon that still fills a minor anti-infantry role.
The single shot clip, low ammunition, and charge-to-fire attitude more than justify the change. It's not a bad weapon as it is, there's just no reason to use it over the Forge Gun or Swarm Launcher except for "badass" points. The only other reason being that it's a light weapon, so you don't have to be a heavy. Already covered that in my post. Read bold. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3216
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Plasma Cannon SHOULD really be the counterpoint to Swarm Launchers.
Swarms hit harder against armour, Plasma Cannons hit harder against shields. Unfortunately, the reduced damage means they're about even on shields, then the Swarm Launcher gets a buff against armour while the Plasma Cannon loses damage instead.
Realistically, the Plasma Cannon NEEDS to be hitting harder. The other disadvantages are legitimate and well-built design decisions to make it a hard-hitting AV weapon. Speed up the reload slightly, buff the damage, and you should see a long-term dps that's similar to the Swarm Launcher but weighted towards shields instead of armour. |
WeapondigitX V7
Planetary Response Organization
8
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 12:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
I found the blast radius and damage of blast radius fine with 2 complex damage mods on an advanced amarr medium frame. The reload and 1 fire clip was also fine with me. It replaced my locus grenades and then I finished shield based infantry off with advanced pistols. I used advanced packed AV grenades to help kill vehicles. However the plasma cannon does feel like it needs an increase in direct damage and increased velocity. It just doesn't do a good enough job against shielded vehicles. Probably a 600 - 900 damage increase would be fine. The swarm launcher does more damage over time because of its larger clip size. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:I found the blast radius and damage of blast radius fine with 2 complex damage mods on an advanced amarr medium frame. The reload and 1 fire clip was also fine with me. It replaced my locus grenades and then I finished shield based infantry off with advanced pistols. I used advanced packed AV grenades to help kill vehicles. However the plasma cannon does feel like it needs an increase in direct damage and increased velocity. It just doesn't do a good enough job against shielded vehicles. Probably a 600 - 900 damage increase would be fine. The swarm launcher does more damage over time because of its larger clip size. It does more damage over time because it just straight up does more damage. And is more likely to hit, and you're more likely to survive long enough to run out of ammo with the Swarms than with the Plasma Cannon.
The weapon isn't bad against infantry as long as you're a good shot but it's lackluster in AV. One major problem is the broken gains of the advanced/proto equipment in comparison with other AV weapons |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1815
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:It doesn't really fill a role that isn't filled already.
It has been released in an over nerfed state.
It requires an unreasonable amount of player skill due to the amount of difficulty variables required for its use.
For example:
Forge gun
Difficulties: Requires a heavy suit, has a charge timer and a moderate range. You have to lead moderately for infantry.
Plasma Cannon
Difficulties:
Has a charge timer, has a reload timer (between shots) effectively giving it double the length of time on it second shot. It has the lowest damage of all the AV weapons (hence the first difficulty is exaggerted). It requires a player to time a shot, judge angle AND lead the shot due to its slow firing making it unfeasable for DS3 users to hit fast moving targets.
There are also reports of it being buggy and and having hit detection issues.
Solutions: One or more of these difficulties has to go.
1. Remove the fire arc.
Or
2. Increase damage.
Or
3. Remove charge timer
Or
4. Increase clip size. And give it a ROF (less than the time it takes to reload).
Only one of these has to be implimented in order to make it usuable at least. At the present state you would have to be bonkers to use and invest SP in it. One shot is fine, but it needs to have less arc, more range, a faster projectile, and do the damage that Swarms do now, to allow for Swarms to finally be nerfed.
Guided weapons should always do less damage than unguided weapons. You should have to compensate for the lack of aiming with a reduction to damage output. |
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EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 13:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote: One shot is fine, but it needs to have less arc, more range, a faster projectile, and do the damage that Swarms do now, to allow for Swarms to finally be nerfed.
Guided weapons should always do less damage than unguided weapons. You should have to compensate for the lack of aiming with a reduction to damage output.
I agree with your points, however, Swarms are "fine" as is RIGHT NOW due to where vehicles are at. It's difficult to balance with so many vehicles and weapons planned-but-not-here. Once the game comes closer to a finished state I think we can begin to decide that swarms should have more ammo capacity but less damage to compensate for the guided aspects, etc.
But if we were to nerf swarms right now there'd be too much forum rage and vehicles would just start overrunning maps. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
591
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 15:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote: One shot is fine, but it needs to have less arc, more range, a faster projectile, and do the damage that Swarms do now, to allow for Swarms to finally be nerfed.
Guided weapons should always do less damage than unguided weapons. You should have to compensate for the lack of aiming with a reduction to damage output.
Thats the first, decent reasoned response as to why swarms should be nerfed.
I actually agree, guided weapons should have a counter to the fact they are guided.
That being said it actually takes some skill firing a swarm launcher "the right way", often if you just aim and fire you hit terrain.
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
591
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 15:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote: One shot is fine, but it needs to have less arc, more range, a faster projectile, and do the damage that Swarms do now, to allow for Swarms to finally be nerfed.
Guided weapons should always do less damage than unguided weapons. You should have to compensate for the lack of aiming with a reduction to damage output.
I agree with your points, however, Swarms are "fine" as is RIGHT NOW due to where vehicles are at. It's difficult to balance with so many vehicles and weapons planned-but-not-here. Once the game comes closer to a finished state I think we can begin to decide that swarms should have more ammo capacity but less damage to compensate for the guided aspects, etc. But if we were to nerf swarms right now there'd be too much forum rage and vehicles would just start overrunning maps.
I agree with this as well.
If swarms got nerfed there would be a real danager there would be the tank red lining we experiened in the E3 build.
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