DUST Search - AFK Farming is the only way to sustain

Lilah Silverstone wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

I hope everyone can tell that I fully understand the dynamics here. I even understand where most of you are coming from.

I just think its not a recipe for success.

How many dudes in EVE in the upper 90% SP of EVE are mining 15 hours a week in a Venture in order to finance 5 - 10 fleet ops per week? If you can answer that then I'll shut up.

None but most of those people only log in to change skills. The people who have reached that tier have been at EVE since beta and have most likely done everything the game has to offer. Further more your comparison is inaccurate. Grinding for proto gear is more akin to a solo miner mining 15 hours a day in a venture to save for a Mackinaw. Funny thing is once he has it, he'll likely get ganked before he can turn a profit. The same idea carries over to proto gear. To solve this problem the miner will settle for the less efficient but significantly cheaper Retriever, and though he might lose it as well he'll have a much better chance at actually making isk. Apply this to dust and you to can make money. You can have your profit or you can have your proto gear, but you can't (or rarely can) have both.


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Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 81	Posted - 2013.06.01 18:46:00 - [1] - Quote Thor, although I support the ability to make Isk I will take this opportunity to point out that the easiest way to do this is through massive amounts of WP. If you make 2000+ WP in a match it is likely that you will also make 400-500k isk that match. This is why I have been lobbying for a player market as well as manufacturing capabilities.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 81	Posted - 2013.06.01 18:54:00 - [2] - Quote Running a conservative 100,000isk advanced fit will only result in profit if you die less than 2 times in an average match for most players.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 81	Posted - 2013.06.01 18:58:00 - [3] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: But that just not true. It's not consistent. I had 2100 WP in the match before and received 320,000 WP. I received 500,000 isk in a domination match that I had 2400 WP in and that's the only time I've ever gotten that much. One other time I've gotten 400,000. I get a lot of WP. Now that the respec money is gone I'm sitting on 16,000,000 and reality is setting in. It's frustrating and I'm not sure how anyone can be happy with it. You should be able to calculate your ISK payout at the end of battle screen screen based on WP, KDR, and W/L Time in match should matter ZERO. Performance only I believe it is also calculated on equipment destroyed and repaired as most of my matches I spend more time repairing than destroying stuff.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 81	Posted - 2013.06.01 19:02:00 - [4] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Thor, although I support the ability to make Isk I will take this opportunity to point out that the easiest way to do this is through massive amounts of WP. If you make 2000+ WP in a match it is likely that you will also make 400-500k isk that match. This is why I have been lobbying for a player market as well as manufacturing capabilities. Wrong. ISK payout isn't directly based on your WP. For whatever asinine reason ISK payouts are based on the "value" of whatever enemy equipment you destroy during a game. If you're fighting against a team that is using all expensive equipment and get 2000+ WP then you're going to get a large payout. If you're fighting against a team that continuously spams militia gear and get 2000+ WP you're getting a crap payout. The failure here is that your payout truly has almost ZERO basis on how well you play or how good your gear is but on the gear your enemy uses. Can you propose something to fix this? I don't think that payouts should be strictly limited to WP but also believe that there has got to be a better way. A person in a 50k isk suit should be able to make a profit but unless they die less than 4 times in a match they generally will not.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 81	Posted - 2013.06.01 19:07:00 - [5] - Quote ladwar wrote: the highest I went was just under 700k ISK but I kill 12 HAVs 3 ADS 12 protobears and 8 LLAVs and went 38-1 and lost 100k ISK because the HAV I used cost more then what I got in the match. See it's a common occurrence where isk loss is not only on the part of those using proto suits but in any kind of gear. With a steady drain of isk something must be done to correct negative isk flow!
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 82	Posted - 2013.06.01 19:58:00 - [6] - Quote Lilah Silverstone wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I hope everyone can tell that I fully understand the dynamics here. I even understand where most of you are coming from. I just think its not a recipe for success. How many dudes in EVE in the upper 90% SP of EVE are mining 15 hours a week in a Venture in order to finance 5 - 10 fleet ops per week? If you can answer that then I'll shut up. None but most of those people only log in to change skills. The people who have reached that tier have been at EVE since beta and have most likely done everything the game has to offer. Further more your comparison is inaccurate. Grinding for proto gear is more akin to a solo miner mining 15 hours a day in a venture to save for a Mackinaw. Funny thing is once he has it, he'll likely get ganked before he can turn a profit. The same idea carries over to proto gear. To solve this problem the miner will settle for the less efficient but significantly cheaper Retriever, and though he might lose it as well he'll have a much better chance at actually making isk. Apply this to dust and you to can make money. You can have your profit or you can have your proto gear, but you can't (or rarely can) have both. While I agree with this, I feel we are being relegated to running militia rather than basic or advanced fit gear to do this and it is a problem.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 83	Posted - 2013.06.01 20:36:00 - [7] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: We'll have to agree to disagree. 5% of the player base participates in PC battles. 254 districts = 508 teams x 16 players = 8,128 players. Every district isn't attacked each day and many of the battles are made up of players participating in 3 or four battles per day. If that's what 95% of the player base is saving up for then I'm not sure this is sustainable. Can a person really look at that and envision success when they look at the bigger picture here? It really isn't sustainable. If a person doesn't die in match It is justifiable but if they die only once and switch to militia gear or standard gear it doesn't pay for the one set of gear they came into the match in. Even in PC battles, dying more than 4 times @ 250k for a fully proto fitted suit doesn't justify the cost unless you are not under constant attack and have time to replenish your clone reserves and possibly profit from some isk generated by the district.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 85	Posted - 2013.06.01 20:47:00 - [8] - Quote It wouldn't be an endless grind if we were to have a market to make profit off of or the ability to build our own gear as well as research bpos to make them better such as use a sever bpo to make a proto bpo as is done in eve when manufacturing T2 ships.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 85	Posted - 2013.06.01 20:49:00 - [9] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I'm not saying this would resolve everything but it seems like PC would be more accessible with more districts open and all these awox exploits closed. I don't agree. It would just mean the best corps would have more PC battles each day. It could mean that due to current wars, the big corps would have enough on their plates to do rather than spending more to take more land they may focus on preserving what they have.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 86	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:21:00 - [10] - Quote Lichsmash RN wrote: yes ccp is working on an isk scaling for war points but if you think money is going to rain from the sky in pubs your going to be disappointing the pub match were is and always will be a kiddy pool that was in the design document that was the intent during its implantation that's the way ccp is going to keep it We need a better way to earn isk, bottom line. It doesn't make sense that the faction warfare matches pay the say as Pub matches either. Yes PC rewards are higher than pub matches but so are costs and so with everything scaling up in that regards it doesn't make sense that there is not a relatively cost effective way to earn isk to be able to sink into PC battles.

Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 86	Posted - 2013.06.04 20:27:00 - [11] - Quote While I agree with all thats been said about not using gear you can't afford to lose, that would put many of us in positions where we are using almost completely militia setups because it really doesn't matter what we use, WP and isk destroyed are the two things that calculate end payout. I've had matches where I have over 2000 wp and walked away from them with almost 200,000 isk which tells me don't run proto no matter who you fight against in a pub match and also, don't run advanced either because you can get just as many wp using Basic gear with the odd addition of an advanced gun or even just some proto reppers to earn wp. This also tells me that Isk payouts are BROKEN. There is not enough reward to justify using gear that at best gives you a few more modules to use EVER in a pub match. PC battles on the other hand tend towards reasonable payouts compared to isk spent. Unfortunately we still need a way to get isk to fund PC and pay for shiny tanks/dropships/lavs/suits and we do not have a way to do this short of grinding for isk and sp. Eve has mining, industry, missions and a market, what do we have other than shooting people? The idea that a 50% increase in payout from a pubmatch is not such a bad idea. If there were a cap on earnings from a pub match that would be ok too so long as something like 500,000-1,000,000 isk payouts for high cominations of kills and wp were available. If we had industry or some way to farm isk like PI to pay for suits that cost about the same as a frigate in eve then I would feel fine about the matches paying out so little because there would be more to do to build a bit of isk then go use the isk but at this moment in time it is not. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, in this case the majority of players. We need a fix for this. Some way to earn isk rather that sometimes making isk. I know there are bpo suits and have them myself but I don't believe that this is the answer.