Caldari Logistics NO racial
EHP: 843

Caldari Logistics racial
EHP: 934 <-- holy sh...

Gallente Logistics
EHP: 698

Caldari Assault
EHP: 846

Gallente Assault
EHP: 773

Gallente Assault 6% speed buff
EHP: 828


Gallente Logistics 6% speed buff
EHP: 753

CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot
EHP: 770

_________
Amarr Assault
EHP:811

Amarr Logistics
EHP:736

Minmatar Assault
EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow...

Minmatar Logistics
EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules

Armor/Shield balance needs to be balanced at the suit level first, then work on buffing the armor modules themselves. Doing so would move the Amarr and Minmatar to the top of the OP list, while balancing the Gallente and Caldari in the bottom end.

All suit comparisons are done using Complex shield extenders, and enhanced armor plates with the assumption ferroscale complex will be the same as enhanced, it could be lower but the different in EHP between suits will be the same as if it was complex.

So I did some number crunching with a Logistics Caldari and Gallente, actually all of the suits except scouts, and assuming the ferroscale at Complex level is EXACTLY the same as an Enhanced armor plate just without the speed penalty, 87 HP 20 CPU/ 6 PG, I got some very promising numbers. I took a Gallente Logistics and a Caldari logistics WITH the 25% shield bonus active, and the Gallente logistics came out with 1033 EHP while the Caldari logistics came out with 1174 EHP, this was using ALL slots for defense modules. I think this is really, really great this is balanced very well, Sort of ill explain why later, the reason this is balanced is because although the Caldari has 130 more EHP, the Gallente has CPU/PG to spare for equipment and the Gallente logistics has 1 more equipment slot, so they sacrifice that extra slot of defense for an equipment; the Caldari logistics ignores this equipment slot for extra defense/damage, if I remove the Shield extender the Caldari has 1083 EHP and CPU/PG for a damage modifier, and/or for equipment slots.

Sort of: I think it is a little way to much for the Logistic Caldari and Gallente to have an EHP of over 1000 and of course all suits will receive a EHP increase between 100-200, but with the current damage on weapons people will be hard to kill, but of course without proper numbers to crunch this is all speculation and I could be wrong. One good thing about this speculation is that even if the numbers were lower, like the complex having the EHP of a basic armor module it would still keep the same balance as above which is great.

Sort of: The Amarr Assault and logistics ak.0 with these numbers comes out lower in EHP than the Caldari and Gallente, so the suit needs a buff, the Minmatar suits comes out lower in EHP than the Caldari and Gallente but this is expected because the Minmatar is the fastest so the trade off for speed/defense shines for them now.

Sort of: The Gallente and Caldari logistics suits come out on top, EHP wise, versus their assault variants. The Gallente and Caldari assault suits both come out a little lower than the Logistics suit variant. This is not true for the Amarr Logistics/Assault and the Minmatar Logistics/Assault, so I propose a buff to the Amarr Assault/Logistics suits in EHP, or an extra High/Low slot, and a nerf to the Gallente and Caldari logistics suits in EHP immediately after/or with the deployment of Uprising 1.2 this will balance all of the suits

Sort of: All suits NEED to get a passive armor repair rate, to balance out the total repair rate of all suits for example the Caldari repair the most shield at the fastest rate, Minmatar second, Amarr third, and Gallente last; so the armor repair rate should be inverse to this putting the Gallente as the fastest and the Caldari as the slowest. This will also help mitigate the fact that armor tanking suits will still be disadvantaged when it comes to repping, since shield tanks will still be able to out tank armor tanks in terms of shield regeneration because of how fast it recharges with no investment, while a armor tank who wants to stay active in battle would need to find a logistic with a repair tool, a triage nanohive, or sacrifice their HP for armor repping thus losing the overall balance. Or a quick and dirty option is to reverse the shield repping to armor for the Gallente and Amarr and adding a small shield repair bonus to them, and a small armor repair bonus to Minmatar and Gallente.

P.S: I ran a total defense fit on the heavy suit, using this and it came out at an outstanding 1371 EHP, this is 300~ EHP above any suit I can make with the same optimization using ferroscale with basic armor module stats, this is great for the heavies you guys should be excited for this!

One more thing, please make sure the ferroscale plates are not higher in CPU/PG than the shield modules, this will severely limit the new possibilities of suit building that these plates will bring and put the shield tanks as the most diverse class yet again, also if everything I said is correct about the ferroscales buff weapon damage by the average ratio of EHP increase across the board. Also have the Reactive plates use both armor repair and armor plating skills, or armor repair skill only, so people still have to spec into armor repping to use these.

After i play my heavy alt more and skill him up we can talk. I can already say that HMG + Militia Heavy suit often gets wtfpwned by newbie suits. the EHP is laughably low.

the primary concern about heavies is that approaching 1300 HP requires at least 2 complex plates and a crippling speed penalty. Further, without completely maxing out both armor and the shield upgrade skill the base health of a heavy is less than a tanked caldari medium suit.

Before anyone says defensive roles, that's a s**tty copout. sentinels are defensive. Heavies are heavy. Further, the speed penalty is crippling when the defender is so pathetically easily outflanked.

until CCP does 64v64 or higher matches people do not have the manpower to park 4 or more fatties on a cap point.

In ambush fatties are sitting ducks.

to a lesser extent so are gallente and amarr medium/assault suits.

Ask any tactical coordinator in the USMC:

Mobility kills.

I find it particularly depressing that we have shields being generally superior (though not as drastically superior) in EvE as well for very similar reasons.

playing with resists is a dangerous thing.

Giving say a base 6% per level of heavy suit skill to resists would effectively give an unmodded heavy the rough equivalent of 1300 HP without adding any sort of plates. More Vs. lasers.

It's a very delicate balance point and native resists can absolutely goatfuck the equation if they are done wrong.

I think having 1600 HP heavies is slightly unnecessary without cranking plates in all slots. with your idea they would only need 2. plus the HMG isn't a marshmallow gun anymore. it eats people alive.

stuff

resistances are part of the answer.

removing mobility penalty on armor tanking is a bad idea if you add downsides to shields down the line.

30% damage resistance is quite a bit of resistance.

it would add 150 HP (taking my base EHP to 1162 with no mods) to my fatsuit equivalent before I ever thought about welding on the dumpster walls I found in the trash. And that's only if that resistance did not apply to shields. If it DID apply to my shields my no-module EHP would be a whopping 1312 EHP. Just a bit broken once I start adding defenses, because I can already out-firepower most heavy tanked assault/logi within my optimal.

I use plates and am pretty spectacularly successful with them. However that's not the problem. We're looking at ways to balance armor without making it OP AND... without making Armor tanking the same as shield tanking.

You're banging on a point that will push fatties into the OP zone sharply. But that does not address the overall balance issues of armor tanking. Now that we have armor-tanked amarr/gallente assault and logis as well as medium frames Armor tanking is no longer a "Heavy problem." It is now "everybody's problem."

I think there's something in this idea. Perhaps a crosshair effect?

Assuming every shot lands, and the user doesn't run away when the see the heavy.

Regarding the contact nade debate. they shouldnt exist. Ever. Not in any FPS. Cook your nades for christ sake...

Any fused grenade should be replaced by M1 with no skill requirement so people who bought pack dont go mad. And any other contact nade taken off the market and reimbursed to their owners.

Aim at feet iwin button = bad gameplay