DUST Search - Militia Dropship and HAV BPO's confirmed, Advanced suit and weapon BPO's...

Aran Abbas wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Aran Abbas wrote:

Remember though that the cosmetics in TF2 bring no advantage in game. However, the precedent of advantage - however slight - has been set in Dust with the introduction of the very first BPO. Once you set a precedent, and that precedent pays your bills, it's virtually impossible to go against it.

There's a more solid precedent for advantage-giving items to be nerfed or removed, or for ISK-based versions of those items to be made available.

The precedent you're arguing is for items that let you save a SMALL amount of ISK by running VERY WEAK equipment. It's NOT for anything that could qualify as a pay-to-win item in any form.

Even a Militia HAV or Dropship can be a credible threat on a level that no Dropsuit ever will be.

A Standard LAV is a fair bit better than a Militia. They introduced that. There's been no mass exodus from Dust. Why would there be for Militia dropships and HAV's? You can probably go 20/0 with a Standard murder-taxi. Same as you would with a HAV.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3156	Posted - 2013.05.31 08:36:00 - [1] - Quote Because there are BPOs, there will be BPOs for everything? Fail logic is fail.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3160	Posted - 2013.05.31 08:59:00 - [2] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Because there are BPOs, there will be BPOs for everything? Fail logic is fail. Only if you don't have the capacity for complex thought. The lack of complex thought is on your side, not mine. Assuming that there will be vehicle BPOs and higher-grade BPOs in future is ignoring that CCP experimented with such things in the beta and deliberately removed those because they were too easily abusable. It was actually implied at the time that the devs were using the free vehicles as a way to emphasise vehicle use for testing purposes. You're ignoring anything beyond the most basic of thought processes and not addressing anything that actually requires more complex logic than "if it happened before it can happen again". I'm the one looking beyond the surface here. Nice try though.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3160	Posted - 2013.05.31 09:14:00 - [3] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: If you were capable of complex thought truly, you wouldn't be making the link between free vehicles in a beta that brought no real life revenue to CCP and 'free' vehicles in release that do bring in real life revenue for CCP. And if you were capable of complex thought, you'd realise that CCP are focused on the long-term, and always will be, and adding in things that people will legitimately argue as pay-to-win items is NOT going to happen because that's the death of the community and would effectively give them a short-term revenue boost at the expense of continuing profits. Cosmetic functions are confirmed, and THOSE will be the real cash-cow for CCP.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3160	Posted - 2013.05.31 09:17:00 - [4] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: Remember though that the cosmetics in TF2 bring no advantage in game. However, the precedent of advantage - however slight - has been set in Dust with the introduction of the very first BPO. Once you set a precedent, and that precedent pays your bills, it's virtually impossible to go against it. There's a more solid precedent for advantage-giving items to be nerfed or removed, or for ISK-based versions of those items to be made available. The precedent you're arguing is for items that let you save a SMALL amount of ISK by running VERY WEAK equipment. It's NOT for anything that could qualify as a pay-to-win item in any form. Even a Militia HAV or Dropship can be a credible threat on a level that no Dropsuit ever will be.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3160	Posted - 2013.05.31 09:41:00 - [5] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Aran Abbas wrote: Remember though that the cosmetics in TF2 bring no advantage in game. However, the precedent of advantage - however slight - has been set in Dust with the introduction of the very first BPO. Once you set a precedent, and that precedent pays your bills, it's virtually impossible to go against it. There's a more solid precedent for advantage-giving items to be nerfed or removed, or for ISK-based versions of those items to be made available. The precedent you're arguing is for items that let you save a SMALL amount of ISK by running VERY WEAK equipment. It's NOT for anything that could qualify as a pay-to-win item in any form. Even a Militia HAV or Dropship can be a credible threat on a level that no Dropsuit ever will be. A Standard LAV is a fair bit better than a Militia. They introduced that. There's been no mass exodus from Dust. Why would there be for Militia dropships and HAV's? You can probably go 20/0 with a Standard murder-taxi. Same as you would with a HAV. I've seen plenty go 20/0 with the starter LAVs too. I've seen players run 20-0 without the LAV. And in spite of that, a broken mechanic that needs fixing isn't a basis for an argument, and we all know LAVs are a broken element in the game right now. When they're actually working as intended, you won't see 20-0 LAV Drivers. And even in the current state, I've seen a good Militia HAV driver and his gunners clear out almost the entire clone count of an enemy team in Ambush. 40 kills between 3 players. You don't get that with a single LAV, even a Standard one that the person doesn't have to buy again. And that's before you consider that the LAV BPOs come without turrets, and you have to fit one for them to be valid and usable, so you're forced to spend SOMETHING if you want it to happen.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3160	Posted - 2013.05.31 09:45:00 - [6] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: It's only P2W if there's no isk equivalent of something. There will be isk equivalents of the Advanced BPO's. If there aren't ISK BPOs at the same level, no there aren't. You can get away with Militia and occasional Standard BPOs because the real competitive gear is all Advanced and Prototype. You aren't giving people an advantage, because there are reasonable options for low-level players to compete against those options with equal AND BETTER gear. If they're releasing Advanced BPOs, the game WILL go to the people who spent the most money on infinite-use items, and because nobody else can compete without also spending money, they won't get new customers, and that in turn means they won't get more money, because guess what? ALL THE PLAYERS ALREADY HAVE THEIR BPOS AND DON'T NEED TO BUY MORE.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3162	Posted - 2013.05.31 12:15:00 - [7] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: There's the option to add new ISK-only tiers as you start selling more and more Aurum tiers. If everyone can buy a proto-BPO the top players don't get quite so antsy if they can still use a MegaHyperProto dropsuit that only they with their massive ISK and SP can fit. Bare in mind that adding tiers is difficult and resource-intensive (we still don't have racial variants of dropsuits after all this time) but introducing a BPO of something that already exists and is reasonably balanced is both easy and profitable. We all want Dust to be great. It won't be great without development. There won't be development without real life money. And real life money is most easily acquired via new and exciting BPO's Actually, adding new tiers of existing equipment just means a new colour scheme on the existing model. It's no more intensive than adding the AUR version of the same item, and if they're donw at the same time, it would make the process even easier. Add an AUR Advanced item, and a Proto+ version of the same item for ISK. That way, the top-level competitive players will still be running the top 2 tiers and lower-level players or those running BPOs will run "cheap" gear.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3163	Posted - 2013.05.31 13:19:00 - [8] - Quote As soon as they start releasing Advanced BPOs without also releasing another tier of weapons above Proto, they start hemorraging players. If they DON'T, and they keep to their promises and vision of a 10-year lifespan for DUST without pay-to-win, they hold onto the current 50,000+ playerbase (low estimate), and keep working towards expanding that playerbase. As new players come into the game, some will spend money, buy BPOs and other AUR items, providing income, and the constant flow of new players who DON'T want to spend AUR will encourage people with disposable income to - when the player market arrives - buy up those BPOs to sell on to other players for ISK. Which would be more profitable? A stable playerbase hovering around the 100,000 mark, with occasional purchases from long-time players and regular purchases from new arrivals, producing consistent profits on an ongoing basis as time marches on? Or a small core of 10,000 and dropping with no sales except when you release a new tier of BPOs, and each time losing more of that dwindling playerbase and those dwindling sales? I know which picture I'd rather be looking at, and it's not the way you're expecting the game to go.