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Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
210
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Posted - 2013.05.25 22:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
As I'm sure we've all seen lately, with the increased map sizes and distance between opposing spawn points at the start of the maps, LAV usage as at a rise. First it's for convenience sake, then they start running people over. I don't really have a problem with that however because there are many counter-measures available.
However, one counter-measure has perplexed me lately -- the proximity mines are surprisingly under-powered.
First of all I'd like to say that the AV grenades do not seem under-powered versus LAVs. Two successful hits and those things are nearly dead, and you get to carry 3 of them. That's not a problem at all. Now, let's consider the ease of implementation versus an AV grenade. An AV grenade is by far easier to use than a proximity mine. For the AV grenade, you need only for the LAV to come near you momentarily, toss it in the general direction, and the homing effect does the rest of the work. The proximity mine, on the other hand, requires planning and prediction. There aren't many set pathways for LAVs to travel on many of the maps; most of the time they drive around in the open dirt. Also, I'm not talking even talking about tanks, but proximity mines give tanks a beeping warning before driving over them -- another reason why AV grenades are more effective.
For this very reason -- the fact that it's more difficult to score a hit with a proximity mine than an AV grenade -- it makes sense for the proximity mine to be not as powerful, but rather, more powerful than the AV grenade. However in practice, this isn't the case at all. In fact, it's the complete opposite. Here's an experience I had.
My team was holding a city area near the entrance with the road leading out. It was a perfect opportunity to use proximity mines, because the LAVs were blazing through that small pathway repeatedly. I set all 3 proximity mines near each other and waited. Sure enough, an LAV came by at full speed, running them over directly.
The result was a tiny explosion and 3/4 of the LAV shields gone. Didn't even touch the armor. W... T... F...
Now, I'm sure some of you will be quick to say, "Well, maybe it was a special non-militia shield-tanking LAV...." Well, we already know that 3 tossed AV grenades would have done way more damage than that. We also know that the planning, placement, and successful detonation of those proximity mines was harder to achieve than throwing 3 grenades. So even if it was a super LAV, why in the world would it do so little damage compared to the AV grenade when it's so much harder to successfully use?
To further support this, here are some recent quotes from fellow forum users:
Blood Schart wrote:The obvious solution would be a healthy dose of proximity mines. Unfortunately the basic proxy mine can barely even take out a starter LAV anymore.
SMiTTYCO wrote:It took two level 4 ex-11 av grenades to kill 1 militia shield lav. Av grenades need increased effectiveness vs lavs when it takes 2 near prototype to kill a militia lav. Proximity mines also need a buff vs lavs, I just watched a milita lav run over all of my F/49 proximity mines only 2 out of 5 detonated and those two were unable to kill a militia lav.
In summary, the proximity mine is much harder to successfully deploy and detonate than the AV grenade. It requires careful placement often in dangerous areas, and prediction of where the enemy LAVs will travel.
The rewards are not matching the risk and difficulty of successful utilization, especially compared to the AV grenade, so the damage should be increased to better reflect this. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
214
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Posted - 2013.05.26 01:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
J Falcs wrote:I have not tested this, but apparently you can set a proximity mine next to a remote mine. Once the prox goes, it triggers the remote mine (or vice versa).
Still, this should not be required assuming it works.
A creative fix, but not necessary. The proximity mine should be more than powerful enough on its own, for the reasons mentioned. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
229
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Posted - 2013.05.27 21:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Sontie wrote:Proxi mines are lol pointless. they work on LAVs, really they do. HAVs.. naw not really. you just need to use them correctly.
No, actually they don't work on LAVs. That's been my experience along with the 2 people I posted.
Also, describe "correctly." I'm really interested in hearing your methods of making proximity mines not underpowered and pointless to use. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
240
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Posted - 2013.05.29 07:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
ladwar wrote:just incase you did not know proxy mines do more then AV nades its clear the OP doesn't know it.
The values aren't listed, and my experience says otherwise. I did kill a militia LAV with 1 prox mine the other day, but I had no idea how much health they had beforehand. I think it was full HP. And here's how my experience went: Watched LAV run over my prox mines. Barely any damage. He stops and I throw an AV grenade at him. Way more damage. That's proof enough for me.
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Are you just dropping 1 or are you dropping entire clusters of them? I really think that the people I kill regularly with Prox Explosives would take issue with you calling them "pointless".
I do think they could be buffed some though, perhaps double their blast radius? I am fairly certain that is the problem, sometimes LAVs are moving too fast to be caught by the blast radius.
I drop entire clusters. I've seen a proto logi LAV run over 3 mines and about 1/4 of the shields were taken down. I understand he put points in his LAV, but he ran over 3 mines at full speed for **** sake. There comes a point where a player must lose, or at least be dealt critical damage because of a fatal tactical error. Unfortunately this game has taught us again and again that if you have enough SP, you can play a whole game of tactical errors and still win. This theme does not retain players, by the way.
crazy space 1 wrote:yes yes yes yes
They should be turned into burrowed mined, and remote mines should stick to things, lav raming is a real tactic, deal with it. Shoot the LAV on it's way in, use fight ejts to provide cover.
I have no idea what flight of ideas you're trying to showcase here, but it's hardly readable. When I see stupid **** I don't deal with it, I fix it. Shoot the LAV on it's way in? With what -- the proto Forge Gun I keep in my back pocket? Give me a break. And I'll try using those "fight ejts" for cover as soon as I translate whatever that means from ******. NEXT COMMENT.
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:
How many do you have to put down (and what level mine) to successfully destroy LAV's ?
This has been a question going on for a while now. I'm sure someone knows, and I'm sure it's listed somewhere, but it's not given as a damage number in the game.
That's good stuff. More people should look at those ideas. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 07:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Repe Susi wrote:Quote:
I drop entire clusters. I've seen a proto logi LAV run over 3 mines and about 1/4 of the shields were taken down. I understand he put points in his LAV, but he ran over 3 mines at full speed for **** sake.
Here's the problem in my opinion, in bold. LAV running full speed is too fast for proximity mines. They should explode faster. However, I've been racking kills with proxies in every game I've placed them down so they're not useless, not at all.
Just regular prox mines? I've been having hardly any luck at all. And exploding faster is one way to solve it, but there are multiple factors if the LAVs are indeed too fast. Someone else mentioned that the blast-radius should be bigger. This would also help if the LAVs are really too fast. Oh, I just thought of another factor. I'll list all 3:
Factors that would make prox mines more effective if LAV speed negatively affects detonation efficacy:
1. Detonation speed. Obviously the faster it detonates, the better it will catch fast LAVs.
2. Blast Radius. If radius were increased, it could compensate for any unavoidable detonation delay.
3. Detonation radius. If the radius that the mine detects the LAV and detonates was widened, it could effectively detonate sooner closer to LAVs as they pass. |
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