DUST Search - Just spent all day writing about the Tactical AR...

Panther Alpha wrote:

Jathniel wrote:

Panther Alpha wrote:

Jathniel wrote:

Panther Alpha wrote:

Well.. I hope you ready to spend a full day writing about the Scramble Rifle... because that is coming next.

Actually the overheat function on the scrambler rifle is what mitigates. A person cannot remain in a state of non-stop offense for his entire clip using one.

The Tactical AR has no such limitations, and it's ammo is nearly equally effective vs. armor and shields.

I use one on a regular basis. The weapon is just slightly overpowered right now.

Is the nerfing circle mate... The TAC is the most dominant weapon right now, and the weapon that K/D ratio obsess people are using, once the TAC is nerfed, all that people will move to the next "Dominant" gun in the list, which is the SCR. And that progress will continue, to all the weapon are nerfed, and we need another 10% weapon boost ...

Deja Vu anyone ?

Those same people relying on the TAR also aren't very accurate. If they were accurate they would use sniper rifles.

They rely on the TAR's enhanced range for protection from counter-fire and strafe around in place while emptying their clips with impunity. It's the weapon that grants potent attack at long range, without penalty of things like sway and kick common in sniper rifles.
And if they want to run up close, it will overpower there as well.

If the TAR takes a hit like the numbers I propose, it would still be potent, but only harder to use, and therefore reward truly skilled players.
Reduced ammo, means less shots fired with impunity.
Increased hip fire, means keeping track of your position so you don't find yourself in CQC.
Slightly reduced damage prevents killing Heavies in 8-10 shots (amazing what a tactical does with 3 damage mods can do), and reduced rate of fire mitigates modded inputs.

I'm sure they went to the SCR, and found it hard to use. I know I did. I went with the SCAR instead, because the overheat kept stopping the maintained offensive style I wanted to do.
I really doubt we need to worry about the SCR.

You don't understand ... is all about numbers, and percentage. The more people that uses a " Specific " weapon, the more often you get kill by it, and the harder the QQing is.

The TAC is not "Easy" to use.. you still have to AIM, and tap the button as hard as you can. The reason people is QQing, is because the percentage of people that is using THAT specific weapon.


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Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:02:00 - [1] - Quote Cass Barr wrote: I'm not sure I'd say the AR should be better in CQC by far. It should definitely be clearly better, but the TAR is still an AR, not a sniper, and it should be viable at shorter ranges, though at a disadvantage. My concern is that CCP will do something like reducing the mag to 20 like you suggest, AND nerf the hipfire spread by like 50% or something ridiculous. Yet this is exactly what needs to happen... Why does the Breach do better at CQC? Tighter hip fire! What should make the Tactical suck at CQC? Looser hip fire! w00t! The Tac is an assault rifle but that doesn't change that it shouldnt be good at CQC, anymore than a sniper rifle should be used at closer ranges just because it's a rifle.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:04:00 - [2] - Quote Sontie wrote: What I would like would be; Base Damage @ Proto : 100ish ROF ~180 Clip size 10-15 Increase the Kick same spread. That's called a close-range sniper rifle. Nope.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:19:00 - [3] - Quote Here's what I've been putting together. Been trying to build some consensus on it. GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Damage: 61 HP Rate of Fire: 450 RPM (compare with full auto Breach AR) down from 789.5 Accuracy Rating: 42.9 (similar hip fire spread to the Burst Scrambler Pistol) down from 56.1 Clip Size: 30 (increased) up from 24 Max Ammo: 180 (reduction) down from 300 Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle Damage: 64.2 HP Rate of Fire: 450 RPM Accuracy Rating: 43.5 (exactly .6 higher than the GLU-5, as intended) down from 56.7 Clip Size: 30 Max Ammo: 180
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:32:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Jathniel wrote: Here's what I've been putting together. Been trying to build some consensus on it. GLU-5 Tactical Assault Rifle Damage: 61 HP Rate of Fire: 450 RPM (compare with full auto Breach AR) down from 789.5 Accuracy Rating: 42.9 (similar hip fire spread to the Burst Scrambler Pistol) down from 56.1 Clip Size: 30 (increased) up from 24 Max Ammo: 180 (reduction) down from 300 Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle Damage: 64.2 HP Rate of Fire: 450 RPM Accuracy Rating: 43.5 (exactly .6 higher than the GLU-5, as intended) down from 56.7 Clip Size: 30 Max Ammo: 180 Lmfao, so nerf the hell out of everything and make it useless again. Peachy. While we're at it, let's give LAVs another buff. Say, 120% that way Starter LAVs can have 4500 EHP. Sarcasm won't help fix anything. These are numbers generated from a number of players actually. Please review the thread. This is actually a nerf buffer. And keeps it inline with the other ARs. Well, I ask you. Would you use the Breach over the Tactical, for cqc right now? Would you use the full-auto over the Tactical right now? Would you use the Burst over the Tactical right now? I have a preference for the Tactical as well. But we must be reasonable. It's the king infantry weapon. Especially a duvolle with a couple damage mods. I've been using the tactical ever since we came to Uprising... the other ARs are a novelty by comparision... actually every other weapon is a novelty by comparison. Even in Chromosome, the tactical never really needed a damage boost. Not sure why it got one.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:35:00 - [5] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Well.. I hope you ready to spend a full day writing about the Scramble Rifle... because that is coming next. Actually the overheat function on the scrambler rifle is what mitigates. A person cannot remain in a state of non-stop offense for his entire clip using one. The Tactical AR has no such limitations, and it's ammo is nearly equally effective vs. armor and shields. I use one on a regular basis. The weapon is just slightly overpowered right now.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:42:00 - [6] - Quote Sorry, Amadi. I couldn't place the link I wanted to in the thread. It's been blocking HTML? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=76615&find=unread Believe it or not, I actually do not want the weapon to be nerfed. >.< Some of us are simply trying to mitigate the nerf of the weapon. It will likely be hit hard, unless we can perhaps put our heads together, and address the concerns that other players have with the weapon. Please, read my thread, it basically says what you've said, and attempts to reasonable integrate and address the concerns. I stayed up late a few times, going through a few weapons that have poor hip fire spread, to find a good mitigation. The nerf is coming. KB/M users in particular do the best while using the tactical AR. I would rather the weapon take the hit, instead of my preferred input method take another blow.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 09:54:00 - [7] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Jathniel wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: Well.. I hope you ready to spend a full day writing about the Scramble Rifle... because that is coming next. Actually the overheat function on the scrambler rifle is what mitigates. A person cannot remain in a state of non-stop offense for his entire clip using one. The Tactical AR has no such limitations, and it's ammo is nearly equally effective vs. armor and shields. I use one on a regular basis. The weapon is just slightly overpowered right now. Is the nerfing circle mate... The TAC is the most dominant weapon right now, and the weapon that K/D ratio obsess people are using, once the TAC is nerfed, all that people will move to the next "Dominant" gun in the list, which is the SCR. And that progress will continue, to all the weapon are nerfed, and we need another 10% weapon boost ... Deja Vu anyone ? Those same people relying on the TAR also aren't very accurate. If they were accurate they would use sniper rifles. They rely on the TAR's enhanced range for protection from counter-fire and strafe around in place while emptying their clips with impunity. It's the weapon that grants potent attack at long range, without penalty of things like sway and kick common in sniper rifles. And if they want to run up close, it will overpower there as well. If the TAR takes a hit like the numbers I propose, it would still be potent, but only harder to use, and therefore reward truly skilled players. Reduced ammo, means less shots fired with impunity. Increased hip fire, means keeping track of your position so you don't find yourself in CQC. Slightly reduced damage prevents killing Heavies in 8-10 shots (amazing what a tactical does with 3 damage mods can do), and reduced rate of fire mitigates modded inputs. I'm sure they went to the SCR, and found it hard to use. I know I did. I went with the SCAR instead, because the overheat kept stopping the maintained offensive style I wanted to do. I really doubt we need to worry about the SCR.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 10:18:00 - [8] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Jathniel wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: Jathniel wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: Well.. I hope you ready to spend a full day writing about the Scramble Rifle... because that is coming next. Actually the overheat function on the scrambler rifle is what mitigates. A person cannot remain in a state of non-stop offense for his entire clip using one. The Tactical AR has no such limitations, and it's ammo is nearly equally effective vs. armor and shields. I use one on a regular basis. The weapon is just slightly overpowered right now. Is the nerfing circle mate... The TAC is the most dominant weapon right now, and the weapon that K/D ratio obsess people are using, once the TAC is nerfed, all that people will move to the next "Dominant" gun in the list, which is the SCR. And that progress will continue, to all the weapon are nerfed, and we need another 10% weapon boost ... Deja Vu anyone ? Those same people relying on the TAR also aren't very accurate. If they were accurate they would use sniper rifles. They rely on the TAR's enhanced range for protection from counter-fire and strafe around in place while emptying their clips with impunity. It's the weapon that grants potent attack at long range, without penalty of things like sway and kick common in sniper rifles. And if they want to run up close, it will overpower there as well. If the TAR takes a hit like the numbers I propose, it would still be potent, but only harder to use, and therefore reward truly skilled players. Reduced ammo, means less shots fired with impunity. Increased hip fire, means keeping track of your position so you don't find yourself in CQC. Slightly reduced damage prevents killing Heavies in 8-10 shots (amazing what a tactical does with 3 damage mods can do), and reduced rate of fire mitigates modded inputs. I'm sure they went to the SCR, and found it hard to use. I know I did. I went with the SCAR instead, because the overheat kept stopping the maintained offensive style I wanted to do. I really doubt we need to worry about the SCR. You don't understand ... is all about numbers, and percentage. The more people that uses a " Specific " weapon, the more often you get kill by it, and the harder the QQing is. The TAC is not "Easy" to use.. you still have to AIM, and tap the button as hard as you can. The reason people is QQing, is because the percentage of people that is using THAT specific weapon. I agree. The tactical AR is not a noob weapon. I disagree, however that it's a numbers thing. Majority of players still use full-auto assault rifles (because the TAR is not a noob weapon). Majority of kills is still the full-auto assault rifle. The TAR is standing out because of it's distinct advantages. How many regular AR QQ threads are you seeing these days? In comparison to Chromosome? The number of TAR QQ threads is increasing, and people have voiced valid complaints. If the TAR is supposed to fill a niche role within the AR category, why is it superior to the others? It takes skill to kill enemies with a TAR aiming down the scope, but not so much in CQC. Just put the crossair on a target, shoot 3 or 4 times and watch it die. The problems identified with the TAR are: - Supremacy at CQC (addressed by significantly increasing hip fire spread) - Excessive damage w/ mods (addressed by bringing the base damage down. you can safely bring the TAR's damage as low as the 50s without killing it too much, however for balance sake kiss a RoF nerf good bye) - Weapon persistence (addressed by reducing the max ammunition) The only problem the SCR shares with the TAR is weapon persistence. A fully charged shot, last I checked, consumes the same amount of energy as normal shot, with the only penalty being the overheat. That's the same as having a sniper rifle with 40+ rounds per clip. Otherwise, the SCR is fine.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 373	Posted - 2013.05.25 10:26:00 - [9] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: I'm no saying that TAC doesn't need a " FIX " ... i just trying to avoid the CCP BIG NERFING HAMMER. Me too man... >.< That's why I've been asking for people's input on this thread... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=76615&find=unread I think that if we put our heads together we can come to a final set of numbers, and produce a set of community-backed stats for the TAR. We already know we can't trust CCP with that hammer...
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 377	Posted - 2013.05.25 11:05:00 - [10] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=76001&find=unread Simple solution: Remove the crosshair from the hip firing mode, and force people to use ONLY the scope ( The same as a Sniper Rifle ) I posted this too in that thread. The sniper rifle also has broken and unreasonable hip fire spread. Bullets come out the side of the barrel. I don't want that for the TAR.