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Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
152
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Posted - 2013.05.26 11:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
dalt ud wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:
Then expect those who take the time to get a table and use mice to destroy you.
It isn't their fault that you are too lazy to be competitive.
Ok ok, all ds3 users will leave this game if CCP will not balance, or disable kbm support.
Makes a good case to improve the mouse: we're the ones that will be paying them :-) |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
152
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Posted - 2013.05.26 13:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sebrone Jamleux wrote:It would be ways better if CCP removes the reverse acceleration for mice and adds a fixed aiming speed for each weapon variant. Thus everything is on the same level and KB/M or MOVE users have no advantage.
It's what mouse users have wanted from the start: raw input and hard caps on turn speed. It's the most fir and balanced way o do things for everyone, regardless of their chosen controls. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
153
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Posted - 2013.05.26 17:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
dalt ud wrote:Otoky wrote:@dalt ud
What are you suggesting? You want CCP solve your problem, but you dont give them any hint which way should they start.
Btw I played against you yesterday and it was nearly impossible to shoot you because of the advantage you have with ds3. You can move like Michael Jackson, and you cant do that with kb/m.
I dont see problem here, you can beat everyone with kb/m and for that 10% you talking about, figure out new tactic. Soving - let CCP make control with gamepad like in battlefield 3. BF3 gamepad sensitivity and controls is PERFECT. Other solving method from bf3 - disable support kbm and ps move, then all people will in equal situation. And, funny, but i think CCP will disable it sooner or later, when will see how many ds3 users leave this game. Most of ds3 users just dont know what is top kbm users stacked in one team. When they will understand they have no chances in planetary conquest...
More likely the vocal ultraminority that you represent will move to the next FOTM regardless of what's done with the mouse. What's most likely to happen is that the mouse users will stick around, and the remainder (at the moment the majority, later on, possibly a minority compared to mouse users) just don't care either way, since they're good enough to know that their deaths aren't a matter of control scheme.
CCP has a long history of focusing on the people likely to stick around and focusing on that hard core; it's served them so well that they are the sole example of an MMORPG that has never peaked and has continued to grow, and that after TEN YEARS.
You wanna ragequit, go for it, we won't miss you, but they risk far more by killing keyboard and mouse support than by supporting it properly. At the end of the day, your baseless rambling is no more valid than a call to ban steering wheels in racing games; you're welcome to use whatever control scheme you want, just like everyone else. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
153
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Posted - 2013.05.26 17:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
dalt ud wrote:Geirskoegul wrote:
You wanna ragequit, go for it, we won't miss you, but they risk far more by killing keyboard and mouse support than by supporting it properly. At the end of the day, your baseless rambling is no more valid than a call to ban steering wheels in racing games; you're welcome to use whatever control scheme you want, just like everyone else.
when all control scheme will equal - it will good. For now: PS Move controls - is broken (if compare it with other PS3 shooters) Ds3 controls - is broken (if compare it with other PS3 shooters) kbm controls - not broken if compare it with ds3 and PS Move in dust 514. Just see sensitivity difference in Askull's video. But if kbm users want play alone this game - let it be. Will see how long this game will exist on PS3 where 99% players play with ds3 in all type of games. Who know, maybe kbm users buy enough AUR for CCP's profit and it is reason why CCP support them only now 
Steering wheels aren't equal in racing games; should they be nerfed?
The fact of the matter is that it's possible to balance them all properly: you accept raw input and you set hard turnspeed caps. Will mice still be better than controllers? Absolutely, they're a better control interface for shooters, just like steering wheels are better for racing games.
The thing that you and the rest of your ultraminority just don't get is that all of the countless factors that determine the outcome of a 1v1 fight are infinitely more important than the INNATE disparity between keyboard and mouse. For that matter, YOUR familiarity and proficiency alone, with your chosen control scheme (be it mouse or joystick)., is infinitely greater in deciding the victor. In an actual fight, the only time that the mouse-keyboard difference ever really makes a difference is if you see each other at the same time, have the exact same stats and gear, that the added speed and precision of a mouse will decide it. The odds of this occurring in an actual match are almost nil; the number of times you die because of the mouse advantage as opposed to something else isn't even measurable it's so small.
What needs to be done is this:
1) Raw input for mouse, hard caps on max turn speed (this takes no time at all and is trivial to implement; where to set the caps requires testing and balancing, but it's a universal thing, not unique to mouse, as the hard caps are supposed to be the same regardless of control scheme since they're intended to be based on the suit / turret you're using).
2) Fix the issues with DS3 control (it IS sub-optimal, but this will take a while to tweak and fix as it's so much more involved; you're trying to make a control scheme that's incredibly BAD for a shooter, work WELL in a shooter).
3) Do whatever the hell the move needs, though honestly I've never found any possible interface logic that would work for it, on Wii or Move; only way to do it is with no cables and an Oculus Rift, or an on-rails shooter. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
159
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Posted - 2013.05.27 13:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
AndyPandy Puschel wrote:shaman oga wrote:
The steering wheel is the best for racing games.
Actually most top lap times in Forza3/4 are done with a controller explicitly, since they implemented some "hidden" helpers that are disabled using steering wheel. So yes wheel for "realism", but not necessary top performance in certain game disciplines. I find this discussion rather focused on "Top" performing PC FPS players. What about all the mediocre or "bad" FPS players? I bet we, yeah i include myself, make up the biggest part of the paying communities. From my point of view DS3/KBM are both subpar to most big FPS, but still acceptable. I tested both and in the end i only was better with KBM as sniper, while DS3 + TV/Couch was more comfortable to use overall. So DS3 and KBM needs improvements to get closer to other FPS, so CCP should study those more closely. I would like to see a improved "aim assist", since in MW2/BF3 i can hit things much better and more consistent.
In other words, steering wheels ARE better than joysticks for racing games, and it depended on a combination of wheel gimping and artificial advantages for the joystick.
As to your own experience, that's the very point here: YOUR skill is far more important than the controls' innate superiority. If you suck with a mouse and rock with a controller, what is the result going to be when using a mouse? The same goes for the other way around. Make it all available, use what you like. The cases where choice of controls decided the fight are exceedingly rare. |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
159
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 17:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:shaman oga wrote:AndyPandy Puschel wrote:shaman oga wrote:
The steering wheel is the best for racing games.
Actually most top lap times in Forza3/4 are done with a controller explicitly, since they implemented some "hidden" helpers that are disabled using steering wheel. So yes wheel for "realism", but not necessary top performance in certain game disciplines. I find this discussion rather focused on "Top" performing PC FPS players. What about all the mediocre or "bad" FPS players? I bet we, yeah i include myself, make up the biggest part of the paying communities. From my point of view DS3/KBM are both subpar to most big FPS, but still acceptable. I tested both and in the end i only was better with KBM as sniper, while DS3 + TV/Couch was more comfortable to use overall. So DS3 and KBM needs improvements to get closer to other FPS, so CCP should study those more closely. I would like to see a improved "aim assist", since in MW2/BF3 i can hit things much better and more consistent. In GT5 academy best times were made with a wheel, the winners now drive real cars in real races, i doubt that a pad can be better than a wheel without hidden helpers. This is true, in driving games like GT5, a counter-steer feature is introduced in gamepads, to prevent people from instantly steering themselves into walls from D-Pad or joystick input. This feature is removed when using a wheel in GT5, so realistic car control is attained and better lap times are possible. Simply because the wheel allows from superior precision. In the case of Dust, a simple reverse-acceleration feature for the mouse, and a stronger acceleration for the DS3 stick can help balance average target acquisition speeds for the two inputs, but removal of kb/m input would needlessly grief a bunch of us. I personally can't use a ds3 for ****.
Doing that would make a mouse behave like not-a-mouse. Raw input and hard caps on turn speed are the only thing needed to achieve the (CCP's) desired result, namely suits feeling "heavier" or "lighter.) |
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