DUST Search - When do I get to go toe to toe with AVers?

Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:

Dedicated AV gunner here. Some of you have probably lost **** to me, so hopefully this give me some weight.

Swarms - 70% Shield, 130% Armor
Forge Gun - 110% Shield, 90% Armor

See any problem there? I do. We need a better spread of AV weapons. Where's my 130% Shield 70% armor gun?(Hint: CCP has no plans to make one).

On the one hand, Swarms are absolutely AMAZING at wrecking armor tankers, but completely bite balls killing a well-kitted and skilled Gunlogi/Falchion tank. Seriously. I've dumped my entire swarm load(6 Proto Swarms) w/ 3 Complex mods and Proficiency III into a Gunlogi(*Cough* Sir Meade *Cough*), only to have it just shrug off the damage and run away. So I'm not sure about the whole "When do I get to go toe to toe with an AVer" argument. A well kitted Shield tank with a Driver that has invested a large number of SP into Vehicle Upgrades CAN stand toe to toe.

Then again, I've ripped apart proto-fit Mardrugars (Spelling?) in sometimes as little as 3 shots.

On the other hand, I've got my Forge Gunner alt. Proto Assault FG's, Complex Damage mods, etc.

From his perspective, things are simply too fast. A well kitted tank had to completely go absent of his situational awareness to die to me(I.e. drive out into the open and come to a full stop, or stay out in the open if I have the high ground). While I do a sizeable chunk of damage, even with an Assault forge I have to be quite on the ball to kill someone. And forget standing toe to toe - I'm way too large of a target, and way too slow(especially charging a Forge) to be dodging and weaving like I do on my medium Swarm fit character.

Not sure what I was getting at there.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the real issue arises from tankers expecting their large vehicles which cost large amounts of money to be able to shrug off huge damage and keep going, with minimal skill investments. Militia tanks are cannon fodder, and Standard tanks require a very keen mind to fit, and ALOT of skill points to get to the hardened, rolling brick stage. If I play my cards right, with proto AV gear, I can potentially kill a well piloted, high SP tank. Frankly, I fear what's going to happen when they bring in ADV and Proto tanks with higher base EHP and better fitting capacity than the current STD tanks. At that point, we're going to have to have coordinated, dedicated, proto fit AV tank hunting groups in order to kill them. In a PC match - yea - that makes perfect sense. 0 complaints as far as having them in PC goes. But just like now - with corps like UPS, WTF, Seraphim, and so many others stacking 6-12 man Proto/Officer fit teams in pub matches - the moment someone brings in one of these EHP monster ADV/Proto tanks in to a Pub game(Because this game does not revolve around PC!) we're going to be right back where we were closing Chromosome, with the public screaming 'tanks are OP, tanks are OP', and CCP (probably) beating them with a nerf bat.

Though the whole.. Pub match imbalance thing.. Really is a whole other matter entirely.

Edit: Tl;dr - If you are running in any other tank but Shield fit Gunlogi right now, you're doing it wrong.


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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers EoN. 331	Posted - 2013.05.24 14:17:00 - [1] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Dedicated AV gunner here. Some of you have probably lost **** to me, so hopefully this give me some weight. Swarms - 70% Shield, 130% Armor Forge Gun - 110% Shield, 90% Armor See any problem there? I do. We need a better spread of AV weapons. Where's my 130% Shield 70% armor gun?(Hint: CCP has no plans to make one). On the one hand, Swarms are absolutely AMAZING at wrecking armor tankers, but completely bite balls killing a well-kitted and skilled Gunlogi/Falchion tank. Seriously. I've dumped my entire swarm load(6 Proto Swarms) w/ 3 Complex mods and Proficiency III into a Gunlogi(Cough Sir Meade Cough), only to have it just shrug off the damage and run away. So I'm not sure about the whole "When do I get to go toe to toe with an AVer" argument. A well kitted Shield tank with a Driver that has invested a large number of SP into Vehicle Upgrades CAN stand toe to toe. Then again, I've ripped apart proto-fit Mardrugars (Spelling?) in sometimes as little as 3 shots. On the other hand, I've got my Forge Gunner alt. Proto Assault FG's, Complex Damage mods, etc. From his perspective, things are simply too fast. A well kitted tank had to completely go absent of his situational awareness to die to me(I.e. drive out into the open and come to a full stop, or stay out in the open if I have the high ground). While I do a sizeable chunk of damage, even with an Assault forge I have to be quite on the ball to kill someone. And forget standing toe to toe - I'm way too large of a target, and way too slow(especially charging a Forge) to be dodging and weaving like I do on my medium Swarm fit character. Not sure what I was getting at there. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the real issue arises from tankers expecting their large vehicles which cost large amounts of money to be able to shrug off huge damage and keep going, with minimal skill investments. Militia tanks are cannon fodder, and Standard tanks require a very keen mind to fit, and ALOT of skill points to get to the hardened, rolling brick stage. If I play my cards right, with proto AV gear, I can potentially kill a well piloted, high SP tank. Frankly, I fear what's going to happen when they bring in ADV and Proto tanks with higher base EHP and better fitting capacity than the current STD tanks. At that point, we're going to have to have coordinated, dedicated, proto fit AV tank hunting groups in order to kill them. In a PC match - yea - that makes perfect sense. 0 complaints as far as having them in PC goes. But just like now - with corps like UPS, WTF, Seraphim, and so many others stacking 6-12 man Proto/Officer fit teams in pub matches - the moment someone brings in one of these EHP monster ADV/Proto tanks in to a Pub game(Because this game does not revolve around PC!) we're going to be right back where we were closing Chromosome, with the public screaming 'tanks are OP, tanks are OP', and CCP (probably) beating them with a nerf bat. Though the whole.. Pub match imbalance thing.. Really is a whole other matter entirely. Edit: Tl;dr - If you are running in any other tank but Shield fit Gunlogi right now, you're doing it wrong. +1 well said. GOOD tankers are tough to kill by AV. you expose yourself, you deserve to get melted. I have 1 shot militia (usually 2 shot) and when lucky can take out an adv in 3 shots if I hit the sweet spot (tank weak spot). Tankers caught out in the open become worm food, and rightly so. PC matches it is a fun challenge against GOOD tankers, although even MORE fun vs tank spammers :P the only time AV nades should ever come into play vs tanks is when the tanker puts on his bandana and goes all Rambo in a pile of people.. at that point its your own damn fault if you get destroyed in seconds. I rarely get close enough to nade a tank, and usually run with locus nades cause of this you wanna camp in the hills and I run up on you, you deserve to pay the price. Sure, give tankers their CPU and PG back so they can fit their tanks like before, but I think the balance is just fine between TANKS and AV. LAVS however.. not even close. I agree the high end LAVs are fine where they are , and honestly maybe even the free ones etc. the PROBLEM is their speed. all LAVS move much faster now, faster than the framerate in the game allows. at distance LAVS slide across the screen, and when shooting at them even when lined up, you are hitting where the LAV WAS, not where it IS. This is the main issue and if LAV movement speed was decreased I have a feeling everything would feel more balanced.