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Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean, come on, everyone I see is using a nanohive. Why? Because weapons have very low ammo when you compare how many bullets it takes to take down a target.
Assuming PERFECT PRECISION you can take out an assault player in 10 shots.
But usually human error puts it at 15-25 bullets. Now sometimes you shoot to provide cover, sometimes you shoot to scare your enemy away, so you can at best get 10-15 kills before needing a nanohive. Or if you do the above (provide cover, scare your enemy away) it can go down to 5.
This means that any assault player will run a nanohive, almost no exception. Do we really want this?
I think the base ammo pool should be increased. Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
597
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
The reason most assaults have nanohives is because they rarely have any chance to do anything else.
Uplinks? Possibly. But then again, they're meant to be on the frontline most of the time, it's unlikely that they'll find a safe place to drop one.
Nanite injector? Again, if they're close enough to someone who dies, chances are they're fighting to stay alive.
Repair tool? See above.
I'd wait for e-war to come in and see how that factors into fits.
Edit: So, I disagree with ammo increase. Even though I run out of ammo all the time. |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is a skill to increase your base ammo supply. I think ammo is fine where it is because it makes logis and nanohives have a purpose now that there are fewer supply depots on the maps now. I am an assault player but I always run with nanite injectors because picking allies up is more important than giving yourself ammo. Remember to always trust in your logibros! |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
259
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
And just scrap the logistics class completely !? ... lets face it the injector is borked, the repair tool lock is borked, drop uplinks are rarely spawned on, hives are about the only thing that works.
Assaults should be running injectors to save your clones and have the ability to 'ask' for ammo from a logistics in the same way you ask for a revive.
So no, if you want more ammo for your AR carry a hive if you're solo or squad with a logi. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Exactly my point -_- Why use the other equipment when Nanohive is the best bet? You get to shoot more people. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:And just scrap the logistics class completely !? ... lets face it the injector is borked, the repair tool lock is borked, drop uplinks are rarely spawned on, hives are about the only thing that works.
Assaults should be running injectors to save your clones and have the ability to 'ask' for ammo from a logistics in the same way you ask for a revive.
So no, if you want more ammo for your AR carry a hive if you're solo or squad with a logi. "Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else." |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
83
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
I use TAR and drop uplink. TAR goes through ammo slower than the full auto ARs and the drop uplink is vastly more useful. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
742
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Most Av weapons, along with the mass driver, sniper rifle, and shotgun, could definitely use an ammo increase. |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
58
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
If you are running solo then go ahead and equip nanohives but if you are in a squad with a logi then you really shouldn't have nanohives. Think of a squad as a tank, the assault and heavies are the guns and the logis are the guys on the inside keeping the machine running and putting ammo into those weapons so they can fire. Your job is to just make loud noises and make people fall down. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:I use TAR and drop uplink. TAR goes through ammo slower than the full auto ARs and the drop uplink is vastly more useful. TAR lasts far too long without a nanohive. I really don't want AR's to get this much longevity. |
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Herper Derp
DUST University Ivy League
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't think the amount of ammo you can carry should be changed but the nanohives definitely need a bit of a buff. It only takes one person to run over it and pick up some ammo and a grenade and the hive is gone. With fewer supply depots on the maps, nerfing the nanohives as well was a bad idea. |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
84
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:I use TAR and drop uplink. TAR goes through ammo slower than the full auto ARs and the drop uplink is vastly more useful. TAR lasts far too long without a nanohive. I really don't want AR's to get this much longevity.
Well, the longevity is only useful for those that can stay alive long enough to make use of it. Having a lower rate of fire (and thus better ammunition discipline) is simply an advantage of using a semi-automatic rifle. The other aspects of the TAR like the high RoF, high accuracy from hip-fire and the best DPS of all rifle (Duvolle TAR) should be adjusted for fairness sake but having better ammunition economy should not be touched I think.
Edit: I made up the highest DPS for all rifles stat for the Duvolle. But as a Duvolle TAR user I strongly suspect it does have the highest DPS or at least highest effective DPS at mid-long range due to low recoil. |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
58
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Herper Derp wrote:I don't think the amount of ammo you can carry should be changed but the nanohives definitely need a bit of a buff. It only takes one person to run over it and pick up some ammo and a grenade and the hive is gone. With fewer supply depots on the maps, nerfing the nanohives as well was a bad idea.
Those are probably militia nanohives which were nerfed so people actually had an incentive to spec into them. I have standard nanohives on my AV fit and I can completely refill the ammo on my swarm launcher. |
Lea Silencio
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:I use TAR and drop uplink. TAR goes through ammo slower than the full auto ARs and the drop uplink is vastly more useful.
I have the same luxury because I run with the SCR. It doesn't need a nanohive nearly as much as its assault variation, so I am honestly thinking of skilling into an active scanner. Since you have range AND power, wouldn't it make sense to give not only yourself but also your team the advantage of knowing where the enemy is? Just some food for thought. |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
84
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lea Silencio wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:I use TAR and drop uplink. TAR goes through ammo slower than the full auto ARs and the drop uplink is vastly more useful. I have the same luxury because I run with the SCR. It doesn't need a nanohive nearly as much as its assault variation, so I am honestly thinking of skilling into an active scanner. Since you have range AND power, wouldn't it make sense to give not only yourself but also your team the advantage of knowing where the enemy is? Just some food for thought.
Exactly, drop uplinks are invaluable in competitive matches. A few friendly logis running proto nanohives are more than enough to keep your team well supplied while you concentrate on tactical concerns (like scanner). |
Lea Silencio
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
28
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:Lea Silencio wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:I use TAR and drop uplink. TAR goes through ammo slower than the full auto ARs and the drop uplink is vastly more useful. I have the same luxury because I run with the SCR. It doesn't need a nanohive nearly as much as its assault variation, so I am honestly thinking of skilling into an active scanner. Since you have range AND power, wouldn't it make sense to give not only yourself but also your team the advantage of knowing where the enemy is? Just some food for thought. Exactly, drop uplinks are invaluable in competitive matches. A few friendly logis running proto nanohives are more than enough to keep your team well supplied while you concentrate on tactical concerns (like scanner).
I like your style, sir. You're a "tactical" thinker, much like myself. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
735
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Increase it so that the guys running around won't need to think about combat logistics?
No. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Increase it so that the guys running around won't need to think about combat logistics?
No. Sigh... "Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else."
Do you people comment before you read the whole post or what? |
Otoky
DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement
87
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Soldier of Mawat wrote:Herper Derp wrote:I don't think the amount of ammo you can carry should be changed but the nanohives definitely need a bit of a buff. It only takes one person to run over it and pick up some ammo and a grenade and the hive is gone. With fewer supply depots on the maps, nerfing the nanohives as well was a bad idea. Those are probably militia nanohives which were nerfed so people actually had an incentive to spec into them. I have standard nanohives on my AV fit and I can completely refill the ammo on my swarm launcher. I skilled to nanohives as a sniper. I use standard and compact version and its realy rare when any bullet left in my gun in the end of the game. Nanohives were nerfed to the ground and even if you put some SP on nanos, you easily run out of ammo. And not because im a bad shooter (my record with charge rifle 44 kill in one game). |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
735
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Sigh... "Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else."
Do you people comment before you read the whole post or what? I'm saying the current numbers are good and increasing them even a little is not good.
Do you peo.... oh, wait. |
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Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Kitten Empress wrote:Sigh... "Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else."
Do you people comment before you read the whole post or what? I'm saying the current numbers are good and increasing them even a little is not good. Do you peo.... oh, wait. Whelp, go on then. Have no variety with equipment at all. |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
60
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Otoky wrote:Soldier of Mawat wrote:Herper Derp wrote:I don't think the amount of ammo you can carry should be changed but the nanohives definitely need a bit of a buff. It only takes one person to run over it and pick up some ammo and a grenade and the hive is gone. With fewer supply depots on the maps, nerfing the nanohives as well was a bad idea. Those are probably militia nanohives which were nerfed so people actually had an incentive to spec into them. I have standard nanohives on my AV fit and I can completely refill the ammo on my swarm launcher. I skilled to nanohives as a sniper. I use standard and compact version and its realy rare when any bullet left in my gun in the end of the game. Nanohives were nerfed to the ground and even if you put some SP on nanos, you easily run out of ammo. And not because im a bad shooter (my record with charge rifle 44 kill in one game).
I'm guessing it's because as a sniper you will need to refill a higher amount of ammo than I would for my swarm launcher, but if you say the nanohives were nerfed I believe you since you obviously have more experience with nanohives in uprising than I do. |
HERCULEZE
Neanderthal Nation
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Who is this guy? and why are we getting so many pointless threads today?.
Its called level up your Light Weapon Capacity if your not happy bro! |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
474
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:I mean, come on, everyone I see is using a nanohive. Why? Because weapons have very low ammo when you compare how many bullets it takes to take down a target.
Assuming PERFECT PRECISION you can take out an assault player in 10 shots.
But usually human error puts it at 15-25 bullets. Now sometimes you shoot to provide cover, sometimes you shoot to scare your enemy away, so you can at best get 10-15 kills before needing a nanohive. Or if you do the above (provide cover, scare your enemy away) it can go down to 5.
This means that any assault player will run a nanohive, almost no exception. Do we really want this?
I think the base ammo pool should be increased. Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else. not across the board, maybe as a bonus to all assault suits. So assault suits get a shield regen bonus and a max ammo capacity bonus. |
Otoky
DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement
87
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Soldier of Mawat wrote:Otoky wrote:Soldier of Mawat wrote:Herper Derp wrote:I don't think the amount of ammo you can carry should be changed but the nanohives definitely need a bit of a buff. It only takes one person to run over it and pick up some ammo and a grenade and the hive is gone. With fewer supply depots on the maps, nerfing the nanohives as well was a bad idea. Those are probably militia nanohives which were nerfed so people actually had an incentive to spec into them. I have standard nanohives on my AV fit and I can completely refill the ammo on my swarm launcher. I skilled to nanohives as a sniper. I use standard and compact version and its realy rare when any bullet left in my gun in the end of the game. Nanohives were nerfed to the ground and even if you put some SP on nanos, you easily run out of ammo. And not because im a bad shooter (my record with charge rifle 44 kill in one game). I'm guessing it's because as a sniper you will need to refill a higher amount of ammo than I would for my swarm launcher, but if you say the nanohives were nerfed I believe you since you obviously have more experience with nanohives in uprising than I do. Yep, sniper rifle need more refil but I use nanohives when I run around with swarm launcher as well and the basic nanohives (not militia) are run out fast as well. So dunno, maby you shoot less than me :) |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
HERCULEZE wrote:Who is this guy? and why are we getting so many pointless threads today?.
Its called level up your Light Weapon Capacity if your not happy bro! Hey genius, even at lvl V you get at best an extra clip ;) |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:Kitten Empress wrote:I mean, come on, everyone I see is using a nanohive. Why? Because weapons have very low ammo when you compare how many bullets it takes to take down a target.
Assuming PERFECT PRECISION you can take out an assault player in 10 shots.
But usually human error puts it at 15-25 bullets. Now sometimes you shoot to provide cover, sometimes you shoot to scare your enemy away, so you can at best get 10-15 kills before needing a nanohive. Or if you do the above (provide cover, scare your enemy away) it can go down to 5.
This means that any assault player will run a nanohive, almost no exception. Do we really want this?
I think the base ammo pool should be increased. Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else. not across the board, maybe as a bonus to all assault suits. So assault suits get a shield regen bonus and a max ammo capacity bonus. I'm not suggesting to give all weapons equal amounts of extra ammo. For example the TAC really doesn't need it, I can go a full match without needing a nanohive. But ammo is really low. At least make supply depots more common, or give us more ways to refill ammo. Picking up enemy ammo maybe? |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Rasatsu wrote:Increase it so that the guys running around won't need to think about combat logistics?
No. Sigh... "Not too much, otherwise there won't be a need for nanohives, but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else." Do you people comment before you read the whole post or what?
"but enough to make assault players have a reason to try something else" is not a good reason to buff ammo capacity. Just because you think they should try something else, doesn't mean they should have to. Nanohives have a purpose just like everything else, and ammo capacity of weapons increases as you skill into higher meta versions and the Ammo Capacity skill that every weapon has.
What actually needs to be done, and if I know CCP, this is probably in the think tank already, is make players have to pay for all their own ammo, and make equipment pouches with a certain capacity on each suit, kinda like cargo bays on ships in eve, where you can carry ammo. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1222
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
the point of low ammo is to make the skill useful |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
259
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
it's not the ammo
it's the FING RANGE!!!!
i see it all the time now:
folks charge forward, unload a magazine and run back when nothing connects.
shotgunners run forward, take a couple hits at 20 yards and stop and run away because those last 20 yards are gonna cost em.
then all you hear on the chat is "how the hell am i outta ammo?"
they killed the friggin medium range gun game and now it's just bullet spam.
stupid friggin move.
oh and now you guys want the GLU and TAC nerfed, too.
it ain't the bullets: it's the sucky codbois and their beliefe that 50 yards is "medium range" gun game.
Peace B |
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
117
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:the point of low ammo is to make the skill useful
The skill isn't useful for everyone.
HMG benefit from weapon capacity, since 1% is what, 100 bullet? I don't know how many bullets there is in there total.
Take the forge...the bonus in % is completely useless, at lvl 5, you might get 1 bullet. MD is in the same issue.
I say, change that skill depending on the weapon, provide number of bullets per lvl, not a %. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
martinofski wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:the point of low ammo is to make the skill useful The skill isn't useful for everyone. HMG benefit from weapon capacity, since 1% is what, 100 bullet? I don't know how many bullets there is in there total. Take the forge...the bonus in % is completely useless, at lvl 5, you might get 1 bullet. MD is in the same issue. I say, change that skill depending on the weapon, provide number of bullets per lvl, not a %.
This comparison is bad. One round from a forge gun does how much damage?
How much damage does one round from HMG do, if it even manages to hit anything due to dispersion? |
howard sanchez
0uter.Heaven League of Infamy
527
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 14:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
"should the base ammo pool of all weapons be increased?"
Why do so many players want to make the game easier, simpler, more vanilla for everyone?
Keeping weapon ammo limited and reducing the effectiveness of nanohives while restricting the commonality of supply depots does what?
It increases the value of every bullet! Because they are more difficult to replenish!
But instead of realizing how YOU, the individual merc, can turn this situation to your advantage - taking a few steps to ensure you have more ammo when the red berries don't - you ask for everyone to simply have more access to more ammo.
You do realize, I hope, that you are not asking for the situation to change for you...you are simply asking for the game to be less skill based and more simplistic for everyone.
If we keep the situation as it is and YOU work on proper trigger control and fire discipline while ensuring that nanohives are dropped where they will do the most good .... Then YOU have an advantage that the blue or red idiot across from you does not.
Why do I take the time? ... |
Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 15:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jaron Pollard wrote:martinofski wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:the point of low ammo is to make the skill useful The skill isn't useful for everyone. HMG benefit from weapon capacity, since 1% is what, 100 bullet? I don't know how many bullets there is in there total. Take the forge...the bonus in % is completely useless, at lvl 5, you might get 1 bullet. MD is in the same issue. I say, change that skill depending on the weapon, provide number of bullets per lvl, not a %. This comparison is bad. One round from a forge gun does how much damage? How much damage does one round from HMG do, if it even manages to hit anything due to dispersion?
Yes his comparison is bad but he still has a point. With mass drivers or forge guns I believe that with lvl 5 ammo capacity the player should get one extra magazine worth of ammo. A skill that only gives a % wouldn't give enough extra ammo to those weapons to justify putting SP into that skill. It works for weapons for higher ammo counts but for mass drivers or forge guns it simply doesn't work. |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
118
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 17:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Soldier of Mawat wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote:martinofski wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:the point of low ammo is to make the skill useful The skill isn't useful for everyone. HMG benefit from weapon capacity, since 1% is what, 100 bullet? I don't know how many bullets there is in there total. Take the forge...the bonus in % is completely useless, at lvl 5, you might get 1 bullet. MD is in the same issue. I say, change that skill depending on the weapon, provide number of bullets per lvl, not a %. This comparison is bad. One round from a forge gun does how much damage? How much damage does one round from HMG do, if it even manages to hit anything due to dispersion? Yes his comparison is bad but he still has a point. With mass drivers or forge guns I believe that with lvl 5 ammo capacity the player should get one extra magazine worth of ammo. A skill that only gives a % wouldn't give enough extra ammo to those weapons to justify putting SP into that skill. It works for weapons for higher ammo counts but for mass drivers or forge guns it simply doesn't work.
Exactly my point, it isn't worth spending SP in there. I didn't want to make a long comparison. I agree a Forge does alot of damage per bullet, but it isn't this 1 bullet that is going to prevent anyone from looking for nanohives or a supply depot.
You want a based on damage comparison? At lvl5 you'll have 10% more bullets, For the forge 2(1.6) extra bullet, about 1400-2800 dmg The MD will get 2(1.8) bullets, total of 500 dmg the TAC Duvolle, 30 more bullet, total of 2000 dmg AR duvolle, 30 more bullets, total of 1000 dmg shotguns, 2-3(2.4) more bullets, total of 80-120 dmg *not sure about real dmg per shot* Viziam laser, 50 more "shots", total of 750 dmg Boudless HMG , 150 more bullets, total of 2900 dmg
Look, we still have good difference, which also come to the fact they could add raw bullets per skill lvl, different for every weapons. I wasn't pushing to get more bullet in my forge or anything, just saying the skill was useless for it as an example.
Also, to point out, not every bullet from the forge does hit target. HMG 150 bullets is well enough to shoot continuously 4.5 seconds. Even with dispersion, I can kill 2-3 guys with that. So I still think the HMG benefit more from this than the forge and MD. I am pretty sure this skill is a better improvement for the TAC than the forge. How much guys can you kill with 30 bullets from a TAC duvolle? Probably 3.
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