|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
240
   |
Posted - 2013.05.22 18:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
SoCal Ninja you have obviously made up your mind about it - as we all do with our opinions - but your statement "There's no sense talking base stat balance or isk balance, I don't care about that, I care about Max proto items and the fact that I can't fit my whole load out because of CPU and PG" is really limiting in the scope of argument as no one has the proto level of everything that is valuable to them.
It may be possible that a logi, with all their modules, could out do a scout role if they had all proto modules for speed, melee, scanning stuff, etc. you don't seem to see that you are talking about having every slot proto-fit. Besides that the basic frames have very nearly the same slot count as the specialized suits - so you are also saying that even basic frames can do it better with proto gear? On top of that what logis are you speaking to? The AMARR or Caldari? Certainly not, maybe the Gallente, or Minmatar? Possibly a proto Gallente or Minmatar with all their highs and lows maybe they could do it.
1.What about without proto gear? What about with basic mods? What about other suits - could the assualts do the same if they went proto into all the same things.
2. So your argument really is that if a proto suit has proto modules they can double as any role they want? I guess that may be true, they could but they lose the inherent bonuses of the class and suit by doing so, but that is the joy of proto gear. but honestly play off the strengths of the suit, that is why it is chose (your base stats matter).
3. While a protosuit could definitely fill the role at a basic level could any suit take the place of a scout suit if both were at proto level? If that is the case then there is a problem with the scout suit. But if not then the argument is moot.
4. And how much SP are we talking about in investing into these mods to make a logi into a scout? IF it is more than what it costs a scout to do so then the point is moot as well. If a dedicated logi can do it then he is not spending his SP wisely, but if someone is using the logi suit just ot be a scout, and they can do that effectively at the basic, advanced, and proto level then there is a problem with the scout. If that is not a possibility then your argument is lost again. And in that case it would have to be AMARR as they are the only ones who could fit both a weapon and the knova knives as a sidearm - or any sidearm for that matter.
I'm not saying your wrong, I would just need the numbers of such a progression and see where your comparisons are coming from; that at each level, with the modules and skills, a logi beats a scout every time. At that point I would readily agree with you, but until that is seen I can't agree with your opinion.
And on the equipment side i think the equipment is a deployable field rather than an active module which i think is more in line with the bonuses of being a scout... we will see. |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
245
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 21:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zeveross wrote:You have the numbers, go look them up in the marketplace. If you're trying to specialize the Logi will win hands down almost every time with few exceptions.
I play scout almost exclusively, have since closed beta but we're definitely fighting an uphill battle here. Usually I snipe so the benefits far outweigh the cons (getting to/fitting in places that others can't) but any sort of front-line action you'd best take another suit. I'm hoping cloaking, EWAR, etc will all come in to make our role a bit better.
Right now we can:
1) Run fast
2) Jump high
That's about all we've got innately against other suits.
Forgot shield recharging and shield recharge time.
This is your groups argument, not mine - i don't need to look up the numbers. You bring the numbers and then the rest of the forum can bicker about them and see what you are wanting to show. My position is "show me". Take the time to teach me. Take the time to build your argument. I have no investment in it but I will get behind it if you can show me, if you can teach me how to come to your conclusion.
If you desire not to do so i understand that too, it takes a lot to build up something like that and a lot of time. I'm not hazing or trolling, just asking for information if you would like to share it. I wish you the best and to win your battle for definition, if that indeed exists, by bringing a structured argument before CCP. Good luck |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
245
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 21:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
SoCal Ninja wrote:Clearly, you haven't even LOOKed at the stats on each suit, you are just theoretically opposing me. And when it comes down to it, Logi ALWAYS beat a scout in their roles because of the bonus fitting ability. A scout can't even use all of their slots with proto level gear, where a logi could use everything a scout can AND have extra to make up its disadvantages or boost the specialized advantage even farther.
TL;DR just read this last paragraph ^
Can't see the stats right now - I know the Logi ones but not the scouts, so I am relying on you to post them or at least point to them. And since the suits are made to not have enough Pg and CPU there is a problem with the game in general, not just the scouts.
Its funny that you're out as well... such is life:)
I hear your points (thanks for speaking to them) and can see that the logi can beat the scouts in certain aspects with modules but taking a Min Scout and a Min Logi could one equip enough proto modules that would balance it in every stat?... As I am not at home and not on my system I cant check at the moment, but could it really beat it on every stat and still have greater health? If that is the case There is a problem.
I'm honestly not familiar enough with the scout stats to understand, thats why i was aking. I get that its time consuming, and usually by the time we do the thread is over - I was just trying to wrap my head around an issue that currently doesn't affect me - it affects you and therefore is a valid problem, just wanted to help.
Not opposing, just wanted to understand. I'll leave you to your discussion. |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
245
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 21:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
SoCal Ninja wrote:Would love to, you're talking to the guy who made excel sheets of the entire E3 build with stat comparisons for scout classes. But unfortunately I'm at work and have finals. If you want me to prove it its going to be a few days. Or you could just go look in the marketplace.
Also, shield recharging delay time is better on one of the logis. The recharging speed is much faster yes, but currently we don't have a caldari scout so they are naturally not good at shield tanking so this advantage doesn't get capitalized on. the recharge speed is not what scouts need, they need a better delay timer, but again Logis can do this better.
Basically this thread wasn't about WHY the logi's are overpowered and outclass Scouts. It was about what I feel after reaching conclusions that many others have about the current state of scout, and talking about what I am personally doing about it. Expect a WHY thread at a different date in time.
Cool. I should have just stayed out of the realm I'm unaccustomed too. I'll look forward to your post. If a logi naturally has a better recharge timer than a scout... that's just sad. |
|
|
| |
|