DUST Search - [FEEDBACK/REQUEST] On Skill Progression

EEPLURIBUS onDUST wrote:

I think the reason they do it on a 5 level progression is because that's how they do it in EVE. The level 5 skill is almost a bragging right on eve, almost as it is on dust. If you break things into a lot more levels, you will look at a lot more SP requirements, many unused skill levels (They aren't going to make another 3 or 4 dropsuit variations for each type so that you guys can a larger number of usable skill levels) and I don't see the real need. What are they going to do, take all of the bonuses that the skills give and cut them in half so they spread throughout all of the levels?

With that said, even if they don't do that and they keep the percentage, right now with the Electronics skill, you get 5% bonus to your CPU (or some **** like that). If they keep that for all 10 levels, you suddenly have a 50% bonus to your CPU. Then what effect will that have on fittings? You can create some crazy fitting that almost is invincible with a overpowered gun.

I really just don't think a change is needed. It will require EVERYTHING to be tweaked and balanced, resulting in the exact same thing as we have now, just with more skill levels you have to deal with to get there.

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Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 70	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:54:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not sure how difficult this would be to implement, but here goes: Instead of 5 levels per skill make 10 Halve the multipliers Halve the % bonuses per level Adjust skill requirements/prerequisites and weapon requirements/prerequisites to correspond to the new amount of skill levels. This is more of a compromise to allow players to be rewarded more often. Here is an example: Weaponry: 0.5x (still takes the same SP to reach max lvl 10) Unlocks sidearm weapons at lvl 2, light weapons at lvl 6, and heavy weapons at lvl 10. HMG Operation: Requires weaponry lvl.10. 1x multiplier (still costs 621,840 to lvl 10) 1.5% reduction to cpu usage per level HMG Proficiency: Requires HMG Operation lvl 10 2.5 multiplier +1.5% HMG damage per level HMG Prerequisites: Unlocks Standard Variants at HMG Operation lvl 1 Unlocks Advanced Variants at HMG Operation lvl 5 Unlocks Prototype Varients at HMG Proficiency lvl 1 This would give players the ability to spend SP more frequently providing a stronger sense of accomplishment, while keeping the time to max out skills the same and the advantages skills bring the same. Any input/feedback on this is more than welcome.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 336	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:59:00 - [2] - Quote This sounds good, but like you I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement. I mean really it changes nothing, but lets you do stuff more frequently. I know when you look at a skill an see that it is going to take 2 weeks just to move it up one level it can be pretty offsetting.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 70	Posted - 2013.05.20 17:03:00 - [3] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: This sounds good, but like you I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement. I mean really it changes nothing, but lets you do stuff more frequently. I know when you look at a skill an see that it is going to take 2 weeks just to move it up one level it can be pretty offsetting. Exactly!
EEPLURIBUS onDUST A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:40:00 - [4] - Quote I think the reason they do it on a 5 level progression is because that's how they do it in EVE. The level 5 skill is almost a bragging right on eve, almost as it is on dust. If you break things into a lot more levels, you will look at a lot more SP requirements, many unused skill levels (They aren't going to make another 3 or 4 dropsuit variations for each type so that you guys can a larger number of usable skill levels) and I don't see the real need. What are they going to do, take all of the bonuses that the skills give and cut them in half so they spread throughout all of the levels? With that said, even if they don't do that and they keep the percentage, right now with the Electronics skill, you get 5% bonus to your CPU (or some **** like that). If they keep that for all 10 levels, you suddenly have a 50% bonus to your CPU. Then what effect will that have on fittings? You can create some crazy fitting that almost is invincible with a overpowered gun. I really just don't think a change is needed. It will require EVERYTHING to be tweaked and balanced, resulting in the exact same thing as we have now, just with more skill levels you have to deal with to get there.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 72	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:52:00 - [5] - Quote EEPLURIBUS onDUST wrote: I think the reason they do it on a 5 level progression is because that's how they do it in EVE. The level 5 skill is almost a bragging right on eve, almost as it is on dust. If you break things into a lot more levels, you will look at a lot more SP requirements, many unused skill levels (They aren't going to make another 3 or 4 dropsuit variations for each type so that you guys can a larger number of usable skill levels) and I don't see the real need. What are they going to do, take all of the bonuses that the skills give and cut them in half so they spread throughout all of the levels? With that said, even if they don't do that and they keep the percentage, right now with the Electronics skill, you get 5% bonus to your CPU (or some ** like that). If they keep that for all 10 levels, you suddenly have a 50% bonus to your CPU. Then what effect will that have on fittings? You can create some crazy fitting that almost is invincible with a overpowered gun. I really just don't think a change is needed. It will require EVERYTHING to be tweaked and balanced, resulting in the exact same thing as we have now, just with more skill levels you have to deal with to get there. Did you even read my OP? They would not need to rebalance anything. They would not need to add more Dropsuit variations. There would be no more SP requirements. There would be no "unused skill levels" EEPLURIBUS onDUST wrote: What are they going to do, take all of the bonuses that the skills give and cut them in half so they spread throughout all of the levels? yes and cut the multiplier in half as well so that you can spend SP more frequently and still end where you would in the current system.**
EXASTRA INVICTAS Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:09:00 - [6] - Quote Before doing this, they should fix the fact that some skills don't offer any real incentive to train. I'm copy pasting something from a different thread I started: Our wonderful CPM Iron Wolf Saber has made an excellent thread detailing part of my point here. The skill system is just downright AWKWARD, and in some cases stupid (though the UI is absolutely GORGEOUS, useful, and simple, good job on that one CCP). Long story short Iron Wolf's idea is to streamline the skill training and advancing of dropsuits by making the skills more useful to the suit rather than just make it so you "unlock" access to a slightly better version of the same suit. In EVE, I can't think of a single time where you train a skill and not get a single benefit from it. Training skills in Spaceship command always relate to ship bonuses (and this game doesn't have dropsuit bonuses except to "T2" dropsuits? Whaaat?) But the issue extends beyond dropsuits. Let's look at HAVs. Okay, so you have to train LAVs to IV if you want to train HAVs, that's fine. But what does training LAVs to IV get you, besides HAVs? ....Nothing. It gets you closer to using "T2" LAVs, if you want, but if you don't want them... you just wasted a buttload of ISK to get better at nothing only to access HAVs. And then this also applies to HAVs. There is NO point for HAV skills 2-4. You get ABSOLUTELY no benefit for training them. Not easier fitting, not slightly better damage, not better turret tracking speed, not better health, not better resistances, not higher speed... ab-so-lutely nothing. Train it to V and now you can use "T2" Enforcers (and eventually Marauders again). But that STILL does nothing to your T1 version of HAVs! I have to train Gallente Battleships to V in order to use the Marauder, Kronos, in EVE. Now, the skill Marauders does nothing to my T1 Megathron, that is fine. But training Gallente Battleships to V DOES improve my Megathron. So why is it that training HAVs to V does NOTHING for a Madrugar, but training Gallente Enforcer helps the "T2" tank? I have a serious issue here. It's a complete and total waste of SP on the long road to Enforcer HAVs for me. The game is supposed to reward specialization, and to a certain extent it does, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm literally wasting SP while I'm on my specialization path. But come on now, I can't be the only one who sees it as ridiculous. Especially when it applies not only to dropsuits, not only to vehicles, but everything. What's the incentive for me training Weaponry Level 2, or Level 4? There isn't one, beyond "well in one more level you unlock ______" Okay, that's fine. But what about level 2, and level 4? Not every skill experiences this "Unlocks @ 1, 3, 5" issue where skill levels 2 and 4 are meaningless, but the ones that do are just strange and annoying. Dropsuit Command is strange in that after level 3 it becomes pointless (at least for now). Now if anything I just ranted about has been addressed by CCP or something in a blog or post, I haven't seen it. Feel free to link me to it, I'd be more than happy to read it. As a side note, being from EVE, I see no problem with having the skills max out at level V. "All level V" is a thing that holds some pretty significant meaning when it comes to skills. While I do agree that players have to make stupidly high SP investments just to try out certain things, I don't think halving skill benefits and doubling skill levels is really necessary. For example, in DUST to get a Rank 1 Skill to Level 1 takes a minimum of approximately 7 hours of passive SP gain (7,000 SP). In EVE, to get a Rank 1 Skill to Level 1, without any augmentations or Neural Remapping, takes 8 minutes. Granted DUST gets Active SP as well, but I think the skill requirements are just a little too high to be honest.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 72	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:19:00 - [7] - Quote EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: As a side note, being from EVE, I see no problem with having the skills max out at level V. "All level V" is a thing that holds some pretty significant meaning when it comes to skills. While I do agree that players have to make stupidly high SP investments just to try out certain things, I don't think halving skill benefits and doubling skill levels is really necessary. For example, in DUST to get a Rank 1 Skill to Level 1 takes a minimum of approximately 7 hours of passive SP gain (7,000 SP). In EVE, to get a Rank 1 Skill to Level 1, without any augmentations or Neural Remapping, takes 8 minutes. Granted DUST gets Active SP as well, but I think the skill requirements are just a little too high to be honest. Granted it isn't necessary. but I do think it could possibly encourage new players to stick with the game longer as it would reward them with the ability to spend SP more frequently. As for the "all skills to lvl 5", it would simply translate to "all skills to lvl 10" holding the same feeling of great accomplishment, perhaps more so!
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 484	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:53:00 - [8] - Quote It would be simpler to let us spend partial sp. So, you could put 200k sp into Minmatar assault lv5. It oun't get the skill but would show he progress on a little bar. Those huge sp req. for high multiplier skills could be done by player spending a few points on them at a time as they buy cheaper skills. They watch the bar grow toward the skill. EvE has this, you can train a skill 1/2 way to next level then train something quick and go back to it.
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned 44	Posted - 2013.05.20 20:25:00 - [9] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: It would be simpler to let us spend partial sp. So, you could put 200k sp into Minmatar assault lv5. It oun't get the skill but would show he progress on a little bar. Those huge sp req. for high multiplier skills could be done by player spending a few points on them at a time as they buy cheaper skills. They watch the bar grow toward the skill. EvE has this, you can train a skill 1/2 way to next level then train something quick and go back to it. This. This would make training in to specialized suits/guns/havs or whatever better. Then when you have been playing all evening you could drop sp into something and remember in a couple of days when you log back in that you were trying to get to X level of Y without blowing them on another Z skill that is also needed but you were waiting to do after Y skill.


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