DUST Search - Drop Uplink should only appear on mini-map within scan radius

Vrain Matari wrote:

Geirskoegul wrote:

I would be far more comfortable with an idea like this. The Dust version of BLOPS and covert cynos. Limit it to other scout suits that can spawn at it, perhaps, and now you have the means to sneak a force behind enemy lines, very difficult to detect, and cause trouble by back-hacking them or boobytrapping their ****. BLOPS used well in EVE can be amazing, and it'd be cool to see something similar in Dust.

I was getting ready to argue with you from a gameplay pespective, but then you went and proposed a very cool, and very balanced idea - BLOPS uplinks/BLOPS scouts. Maybe BLOPS uplinks should be composed of a sender unit and a receiver unit?

What i liked most in Chromo was having to infer/hunt/destroy uplinks. It was good gamplay. Placing uplinks while redlined was interesting and rewarding gameplay also.

With uplinks as they are now in Uprising, they will not be a redline-breaking tool in pub matches, which leaves pubbies with virtually no options in a redline situation.


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Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 152	Posted - 2013.05.26 17:05:00 - [1] - Quote As I said in the General Discussion thread on the same topic, I disagree. Drop Uplinks are BEACONS. The most logical explanation of their mechanics is that they function on similar theories as jump drives, making these beacons like cynosural fields: visible to everyone in the system (or in this case, the map). As it stands, it's already possible to get them into incredibly difficult to reach places, and you have to contend with the people spawning at them at the same time (who appear invisible and invulnerable for a few moments, and you can bet your ass I take full advantage of that when I spawn at one to get behind you). Further, by making them visible, you can use their nature as a beacon to set traps and lure enemies into a killbox. Granted that friendlies will spawn into the killbox too, but this is only an issue in PC at the moment, since FF isn't on anywhere else (though it needs to be on everywhere except high-sec instant-action.) Besides, they're so damn numerous that it's often not even worth killing them unless you just happen upon one in the first place. I really don't see an issue as-is, and making them harder to find would make them even harder to kill than they already are when placed by anyone half-competent.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 153	Posted - 2013.05.26 17:56:00 - [2] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: Geirskoegul, I'm not saying making them invisible. All I'm saying is making them subject to your scanning radius. By no means should there be any drop uplink with a low profile signature, they should all be high as to be instantly detectable. But what the heck is the purpose of having a scan radius if you are able to detect things well outside of it? Well the scan radius applies to everything else, just like being on-grid or within scanning radius in EVE applies to everything else. Cynosural (and drop uplink) beacons are the exception. As of now (except for what I hope will change with regard to vehicle recalls) drop uplinks are the only form of "teleportation" in Dust 514. In EVE, the only form of physical teleportation is jump drives. The way this technology works is by igniting a massive beacon of incredible power that instantly shows up on the overview of everyone in the system, regardless of where they are, whether they have probes, or even scan for something in the first place; it's such a powerful beacon that it's just THERE, you can't NOT see it. Drop uplinks make sense to me in the same way. What are we losing by them being visible everywhere (just like a CRU or any other spawnable location except for mobile CRUs), vs being incredibly easy to detect once in range? What do we really gain by making them not visible from everywhere? I would argue we're losing nothing with them as-is (unless the one placing them is really bad at it; which isn't a bad thing, it encourages learning better placement locations and strategies) and that we gain nothing by removing them. Since we don't have a mechanical reason, that leaves lore, and the lore makes more sense with them visible to everyone, regardless of range. Just to head off any argument based on needing to spot a ship that MIGHT have a mobile CRU (you don't know for sure if it does), these don't use teleportation technology, but are a clone-bay on-board the ship and it receives the normal communications transmission that your consciousness is carried on; no beacons are involved, any more than they are with medical clones or jump clones in EVE, even when in a ship like a Rorqual that can fit a mobile bay.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 155	Posted - 2013.05.26 18:59:00 - [3] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: What we are gaining by making them subject to your scan radius is actually being able to stage surprise attacks. Especially considering one of the best suits for carrying the uplinks is the scout suit since they can infiltrate the enemy bases undetected, but as soon as you pop an uplink down now your cover is blown. They weren't always like this. In Chromosome you had to simply realize the enemy are attacking too frequently and then go search for the uplink. It added more to the gameplay. I didn't see anyone back then complaining that they should be visible on the far edges of of your minimap, but now their are tons of people complaining that they should go back to how they were. What surprise attacks? You planning to have your whole team suicide so that a single scan-damped scout can sneak in to place the uplink and everyone then spawn? Not particularly practical. I suppose my main objection is that simply tossing something on the ground anywhere you like (most often in places that are nearly impossible to get to, especially with people still spawning at them) is unnecessarily potent as a tactic. Teleportation, with the exception of jump drives, doesn't exist in New Eden, so the idea of being able to sneak things in like that, undetected unless seen up close, doesn't sit well. Force your advance, use your uplinks to provide reinforcements outside of vehicle-mounted or fixed respawn points, but know that the tech makes its presence known to all. EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: What if CCP just implements a low-spawn, stealthy drop uplink? Scout suit sneaks into enemy base, drops stealth uplink. Only lasts for 5+ spawns, but it's enough to get a full squad behind enemy lines to hit them from both sides. I would be far more comfortable with an idea like this. The Dust version of BLOPS and covert cynos. Limit it to other scout suits that can spawn at it, perhaps, and now you have the means to sneak a force behind enemy lines, very difficult to detect, and cause trouble by back-hacking them or boobytrapping their ****. BLOPS used well in EVE can be amazing, and it'd be cool to see something similar in Dust.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 158	Posted - 2013.05.27 08:39:00 - [4] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: I would be far more comfortable with an idea like this. The Dust version of BLOPS and covert cynos. Limit it to other scout suits that can spawn at it, perhaps, and now you have the means to sneak a force behind enemy lines, very difficult to detect, and cause trouble by back-hacking them or boobytrapping their ****. BLOPS used well in EVE can be amazing, and it'd be cool to see something similar in Dust. I was getting ready to argue with you from a gameplay pespective, but then you went and proposed a very cool, and very balanced idea - BLOPS uplinks/BLOPS scouts. Maybe BLOPS uplinks should be composed of a sender unit and a receiver unit? What i liked most in Chromo was having to infer/hunt/destroy uplinks. It was good gamplay. Placing uplinks while redlined was interesting and rewarding gameplay also. With uplinks as they are now in Uprising, they will not be a redline-breaking tool in pub matches, which leaves pubbies with virtually no options in a redline situation. You'll have to excuse me, because while i've been in since the first wave of closed beta, I've not really been very active until more recently. What you describe with redlined uplinks sounds like an exploit to me; did it somehow negate the timer if you spawned at one? If not, not too big a deal, it just lets you get a little deeper for a bit, but if it does, that is very clearly a bug being exploited and would need to be fixed.
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 159	Posted - 2013.05.27 10:16:00 - [5] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Geirskoegul wrote: I would be far more comfortable with an idea like this. The Dust version of BLOPS and covert cynos. Limit it to other scout suits that can spawn at it, perhaps, and now you have the means to sneak a force behind enemy lines, very difficult to detect, and cause trouble by back-hacking them or boobytrapping their ****. BLOPS used well in EVE can be amazing, and it'd be cool to see something similar in Dust. I was getting ready to argue with you from a gameplay pespective, but then you went and proposed a very cool, and very balanced idea - BLOPS uplinks/BLOPS scouts. Maybe BLOPS uplinks should be composed of a sender unit and a receiver unit? What i liked most in Chromo was having to infer/hunt/destroy uplinks. It was good gamplay. Placing uplinks while redlined was interesting and rewarding gameplay also. With uplinks as they are now in Uprising, they will not be a redline-breaking tool in pub matches, which leaves pubbies with virtually no options in a redline situation. The original planetside added a vehicle that acted like that in the first expansion, so maybe do exactly that. I for one would like to see more mobile equipment, vs just modules (think the spawn trucks from planetside, rather than spawning in mobile vehicles; this would also be more in keeping with the game's lore, based on Templar One). You deploy the sender unit, and then someone can place the receiving link somewhere useful; instant corridor until the link or the vehicle is destroyed (you would, of course, need a range limit, so you couldn't just park it at your base withon the red line.) Two versions, one for BLOPS that would have extremely low scan profile and can only be used by the covert suits, and a regular one that broadcasts its position as normal that anyone can pass through (and obviously appropriate skill requirements to unlock the relevant vehicles and beacons.)