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Kai Wulf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Heavies aren't meant to be a heavy version of the assault.
Heavies are meant to defend a position - they exceed as a defensive role. Set up round a corner and anything coming around that corner is dead. On Manus Peak, I used a heavy to great effect defending point C, despite coming under heavy assault, with bombardment from a railgun installation, too. Most assaults were too cautious to come close, and those that did I ripped to shreds in seconds.
What did you find was best for cover/protection? I tend to find that assaults don't need to come close as they can easily outrange me.
If the class has changed to a more defensive role, I can accept that. I can also accept that our playstyles would need to change to reflect this, but I also feel the HMG has suffered a bit too much since Uprising. I think the OP makes some valid points such as the open space on the maps and the movement mechanics of the characters.
There is just something wrong with the whole setup that makes me feel like I am in some no-man's land.
And it's not just the HMG. Since Uprising there has been a perceivably less amount of Laser Rifles, Mass Drivers, and even Shotguns being fielded. |
Kai Wulf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
SoTa ReGnUM PoP wrote: Heavies are not defensive tools - that is the counter every idiot who fears OP infantry tanks spouts.
We are walls that move the battlefield or get picked off for being idiots standing out in the open. Any points to say heavies are only meant to be one thing is worthy of being called ignorant. CCP calls heavies JUGGERNAUGTS that stand toe to toe with tanks - so if we were to take CCP to there word they're already lying about what our class can do.
Heavies don't move fast - you're right - they need to move smart instead. For when they do reach the front lines safe they can move it forward. Or used to be able too - now a heavy trying anything but point defense is folly and proof CCP has no idea wtf they're doing.
And I'll remind you we are suppose to be able to create our own perfect solider. My ideal one would be a slow moving tank , ops, not going to happen, why even with all of CCP's brag of customization? It's ridiculous and posts like yours supports CCP's ignorance of there own creation.
QFT |
Kai Wulf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: I was a Heavy for severa build(till I start to skill HAV). I think that HMG is a weapon that is ahead of its time. It was meant to be successful in narrow corridors with we don't have yet in game. CCP prefer to implement environment with open area as you said rather than close building with doors, windows, tight rooms, long corridors - where HMG would be really deadly. ... One of really good tactics in previous builds was to use LAV to cut your range between the enemy and you to minimum, and prevent him from disengage.
There is such a place on one of the maps, similar to Skim Junction, but it looks more like the complex in Starship Troopers! It has the CRU right outside Objective B when playing skirmish. It has 3 doorways, a bunch of windows, small rooms and long corridor. I love getting in there with my heavy.
The LAV tactic is still viable and probably the only way to keep up with squad mates - albeit only 3 at a time. The MAV's (armoured personnel carriers) when introduced into the game should make this an even better option.
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Kai Wulf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.19 17:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Kai Wulf wrote: What did you find was best for cover/protection? I tend to find that assaults don't need to come close as they can easily outrange me.
I used a building. I think it was Manus Peak, but I can't quite pinpoint where I was. Maybe it was a different map... Think I'm confusing myself here. There was a supply depot, with an L-shaped building covering it from B, and a small gap between that building and another facing A. I stayed on the side with the supply depot, hiding from grenades, AR's and the like. The only way you could see me (as an AR) would be to get into CQC, as in, within five meters. If it is Manus Peak, then it would've been point C as it's the only one with a Supply Depot (and CRU) now.
I'll have to keep an eye out for this (and other good spots), but Manus Peak seems to have a few different versions now. Same number of objectives and same locations, but the buildings around points B and C change. Or am I dreaming it all lol |
Kai Wulf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Never said heavies were perfect in their current iteration. Only said that heavies are best used in a defensive role. Heavy machine guns are almost exclusively used, in both modern warfare and in most games, as a defensive tool. For example, WW1. Heavy machine guns were set up to defend trenches, rather than assault the enemy trenches. WW2. Setting up a machine gun took time, even the lighter, support ones. The larger ones (Browning MG) took two men to set up and use.
These heavy machine guns take on a different role when mounted on a vehicle. When used by infantry, it's primarily defensive. Not offensive.
My understanding of the way things stand currently, is that all weapons are having the hard cap on ranges taken off and having falloff damage applied, when CCP has this system ready. Which is hopefully soon. This gives the HMG more range without dealing the same damage at 5m it would at 50m.
I say again... Heavies with HMG's are meant to be used for defense. In the future, their role will also spread to suppression, when above range fix comes into play.
I tend to agree. Even though Sgt. J Basilone carried the M1919A4 and fired it from the hip (as seen in the HBO series The Pacific), it was an extreme (and bloody heroic) use of the weapon. I believe CCP have opted for the same fire from the hip type weapon, but want to keep the defensive/suppressive role.
I'm just not sure they are actually achieving that goal both in terms of the class and weapon itself, as well as the other elements of the game such as the map styles and structures. |
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