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slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
283
   |
Posted - 2013.05.18 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Almost. I've heard legions of people switching to the Scrambler rifle. With all these scrambler rifle user, shield tankers finally have a counter. This weapon may singlehandedly fix the Caldari logi problem and the shield over armor problem, as so many people with a weapon that melts through shields will seriously limit their effectiveness. |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
369
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 18:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
True but Armour makes you slow, if you go with a lot of armour it doesnt matter how much you have or what weapon i'm using, your slow as hell.
I could easily sneak up on you with my knives and stab you. |
ProudHowitzer
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
10
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
i was in the understanding that everything rips through shields lol. shields are near worthless this build. its all about the armor tanking. but thats my opion. |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
283
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 18:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
ProudHowitzer wrote:i was in the understanding that everything rips through shields lol. shields are near worthless this build. its all about the armor tanking. but thats my opion.
are you trolling? |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
283
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 18:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:True but Armour makes you slow, if you go with a lot of armour it doesnt matter how much you have or what weapon i'm using, your slow as hell.
I could easily sneak up on you with my knives and stab you.
No one sneaks up on me |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
134
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've always been a fan of armor.
This just makes my job easier. |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
296
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Posted - 2013.05.18 18:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
People who say they make you slow as hell either are playing a different game then me or haven't used them for any extensive length of time. I use 2 enhanced armor plates and do just fine.
However armor plates seem more designed for a heavy (as it would make sense that a heavy would be able to carry big plates better than say a light suit). The more speed you start off with, the bigger the percentage penalty becomes. Simple mathematics. With a heavy you can stack these things and barely lose a step. But because of this having the reactive armor plates that give considerably less armor but no speed penalty will be a welcome addition for light frames or medium guys who are - in my opinion - overly sensitive about a little speed. |
arimal lavaren
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
268
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you are armor tanking in anything but a heavy frame it better be active. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
And what happens when they introduce Minmatar weaponry that destroys armor?
The flaylock is a perfect example, I got hit by hit and I had 460 armor on me.
Gone, dead, no more soldier, just biomass.
Once shields are gone, the enemy has the problem of dealing with your armor and you can take cover.
If your armor is gone, you're dead, dead as dead can be, bye bye.
Also, some numbers:
Assault rifle damage to:
Shields: 110%
Armor: 90%
Scrambler rifle damage to:
Shields: 120%
Armor: 80%
Minmatar Assault Rifle coming soon(TM):
Shields: 90%
Armor: 110%
As you can see, not really a shield destroyer, and not really weak against armor in comparison to the AR.
Its in your imagination.
No weapon will "tip the balance", if you take a weapon that does 100/100 to both, and one comes out better, then it's unbalanced.
The problem with armor isn't the speed, its the HP vs Regeneration.
Complex armor plates gives you a little less than double from complex shield extenders, sure, but when you look at it this way:
Standard AR with no damage mods or skills = 34 damage per bullet
You see how meaningless the extra 49 health you get.
However, for that meaningless amount of HP, we take a HUGE hit to regeneration.
Shield get 25hp/s regeneration without any modules (I will talk about the whole delay thing in a bit).
Armor needs 4 complex armor reps and maxed out armor rep skills to get 25hp/s.
Shields can put on 4 complex extenders and still have the 25hp/s regeneration.
Armor can put on 4 complex armor plates and have no regeneration.
If you try and do a more balanced approach, 2 complex reps, 2 complex plates, then shield still out regenerates you, and now has more HP than you.
Also, shields can slap on a SINGLE recharger in exchange for a extender and woop, now they're WAAAAAAY ahead even from 4 complex armor reps.
Now, as for the delay, I did the math and shields still come out ahead, since once the delay is over they have double the regen speed.
Also, the delay doesn't reset if you get hit again, I tested that and it will just continue regenerating.
Another problem with the delay is that they can use LOW SLOTS, to cut it down to almost nothing.
So they can have the best of HP/Regen/Delay without sacrificing anything.
4 complex shield extenders, one or two complex shield regulators, and you are beating armor in every way.
So:
Armor:
Take an extra bullet or two, stay in cover for half the match to regenerate.
Shield:
Take some damage, recover it almost instantly, finish off heavily wounded armor user. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.05.18 19:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
The empress has spoken. |
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Medic 1879
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
347
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Posted - 2013.05.19 00:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
The penalties for armour seem to be broken I noticed on my Gal logi my movement speed with 2 complex plates and 1 rep was 3.84 but if I took that armour rep off and added a basic plate which gives and extra -3% my movement speed changed to 3.93 so by adding an extra plate I get faster? not sure how that works out.
Also just so you know I cant remember the exact numbers but it was a slight speed increase if I chose an extra plate instead of a rep. |
danny12343331
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
56
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Posted - 2013.05.19 00:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Until they introduce armor plates that rep on their own and the armor plate that has no speed movement penalties, armor tanking will not be balanced. |
ZDub 303
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
168
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Posted - 2013.05.19 00:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Empress' post is exactly why I think movement speed penalty is ridiculous. Just the lower repair should be enough.
Remove the move speed penalty on armor plates and viola, they are perfectly balanced against shields.
Ferroscale plates are gonna be stupid, period. |
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical
Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2013.05.19 02:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
"may be mostly balanced". Don't seem too confident in your observation.
Also it's not. Scram rifle does less damage to armor anyway so stacking it is redundant. Stack shields, kill scram rifle user while they whittle down your armor. |
Val'herik Dorn
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
573
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 02:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Those shield guys give up gank.
In eve and now dust some form of tanking has had to choose between tank or gank.
Albeit in dust its the easier of the two to run (speed penalties in an fps hurts)
So a shield tanker chan choose between high who or gank while an armor tanker chooses between even more tank or gank.
The speed penalited should be reducdd slighty. 2 4 6 instead of current.
Or hp bonus buffed.
But the tank or gank mechanic should always be present. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1013
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 02:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shields still need a drawback. In EVE, they increase your scan signature, making it easier to be detected and locked onto. That needs to be implemented in Dust 514 along with increasing your hitbox until they deplete. Seems fair since armor lowers your movement speed, turn speed, jump height and (still experimenting with this) possibly fall damage taken. |
Thumb Green
THE STAR BORN
Dark Taboo
91
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Posted - 2013.05.19 03:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
I was telling a corpmate at the beginning of a match the other day that I expected lots of people to start using the SCR so I went with a Gallente suit because it's less affective against armor; the first thing that killed me in that match.... an imperial scrambler rifle. Talk about egg on my face. |
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical
Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2013.05.19 03:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Shields still need a drawback. In EVE, they increase your scan signature, making it easier to be detected and locked onto. That needs to be implemented in Dust 514 along with increasing your hitbox until they deplete. Seems fair since armor lowers your movement speed, turn speed, jump height and (still experimenting with this) possibly fall damage taken.
Really like this. Have a +1, sir. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 03:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:I was telling a corpmate at the beginning of a match the other day that I expected lots of people to start using the SCR so I went with a Gallente suit because it's less affective against armor; the first thing that killed me in that match.... an imperial scrambler rifle. Talk about egg on my face.
Was probably me xD
I haven't seen too many people running the proto SCRs yet but I plan on running the Carthum once I upgrade some shield modules (CQC and armor tanking don't mix well). |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3089
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 03:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
ProudHowitzer wrote:i was in the understanding that everything rips through shields lol. shields are near worthless this build. its all about the armor tanking. but thats my opion.
Yeah, like SMGs... wait, no.
HMGS? Armour first.
Mass Drivers? Nope.
But surely Flaylock Pistols are good against shields? Not really, no.
How about grenades? Also better on armour. |
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Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
476
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Posted - 2013.05.19 03:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
All of you are forgetting that more armor plates are coming out. One will have no movement penalty at the cost of HP, and the other will repair itself I think for a higher CPU/PG cost.
So armor might eventually be better if they implement the shields having a large signature.
Also I think the Min weapons will be opposite of amarr and Gal. and Cal. will be opposite of each other. So who ever posted the Min AR stats it should reflect the opposite of the Amarr SAR. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
ROFL BROS
1390
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 03:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
The SMG's like 94% to shields and 105% to armor no? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3089
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 03:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pretty sure it's 110/90, the reverse of Hybrid weapons. |
RECON BY FIRE
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
180
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Posted - 2013.05.19 04:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Caldari Logi can armor tank better than the Gallente Assault, just sayin. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1018
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 04:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:All of you are forgetting that more armor plates are coming out. One will have no movement penalty at the cost of HP, and the other will repair itself I think for a higher CPU/PG cost.
So armor might eventually be better if they implement the shields having a large signature.
Also I think the Min weapons will be opposite of amarr and Gal. and Cal. will be opposite of each other. So who ever posted the Min AR stats it should reflect the opposite of the Amarr SAR.
EVE Online still can't get armor tanking right, so don't hold your breath lol. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
336
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 11:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Signature penalty isn't significant enough, now that passive scanning has been nerfed to hell, and active scanners can scan down medium, and even light frames with ease. |
Cass Barr
Red Star.
EoN.
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 12:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
You can't really judge their balance in a vacuum, there are such things as rep tools and triage nanohives. While I also think shield is better, the difference isn't so significant as to be an indisputable "best", it's situational. They do need to reduce the speed hit or introduce Armor Waffling, though. |
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