DUST Search - [request] limit on number of starter set suits per match

Mike Poole wrote:

Having a free and infinite supply of starter sets is a bit much, its supports a concept of spamability and reckless use.

There needs to be a visible consequence when you throw away a clone using a starter set to promote more survival and tactical based game play.

For instance say that rather than having an infinite supply you have a limit of X many of each set per match. Now this supply can restock itself after each match but it still gives consequences to players actions.

If someone makes reckless assaults on an enemy position over and over again they'll see their supply dwindle and perhaps begin thinking strategically, they'll move with other players to increase their chances of survival rather than playing as a lone wolf that just needs to spawn another free starter set when they get ambushed alone.

Similarly you can take care of the spamming of free LAV's by applying the same system. With a limited supply of free LAV's per match someone can try playing murder taxi but if they're too reckless they'll quickly find themselves trying to bum a ride with someone else until the next game.

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Galdor Seregon L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 45	Posted - 2013.05.18 17:58:00 - [1] - Quote Saw a post on the General Discussions forums that I thought was a rather good idea: Mike Poole wrote: Having a free and infinite supply of starter sets is a bit much, its supports a concept of spamability and reckless use. There needs to be a visible consequence when you throw away a clone using a starter set to promote more survival and tactical based game play. For instance say that rather than having an infinite supply you have a limit of X many of each set per match. Now this supply can restock itself after each match but it still gives consequences to players actions. If someone makes reckless assaults on an enemy position over and over again they'll see their supply dwindle and perhaps begin thinking strategically, they'll move with other players to increase their chances of survival rather than playing as a lone wolf that just needs to spawn another free starter set when they get ambushed alone. Similarly you can take care of the spamming of free LAV's by applying the same system. With a limited supply of free LAV's per match someone can try playing murder taxi but if they're too reckless they'll quickly find themselves trying to bum a ride with someone else until the next game. What if we gave people 10 suits of each starter fit per match? that's still enough to throw away a couple recklessly in each fit, and learn to play more conservatively. And then that 10 suits restocks itself at the end of each match to be used in the next match, not an infinite count but enough to still throw away a couple recklessly and not hurt yourself to much for the newberries. Possibly have the infinite counts while in the academy? and then they become finite per match outside of academy matches And limit the baloch and onikuma to 5 per match outside of academy as well
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 596	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:02:00 - [2] - Quote Terrible idea. Say that a new player spends his last isk and loses everything in a battle. Next fight what happens...he gets 10 spawns in the weakest possible suits he could use? On a skirmish or OMS match he could easily die more than 10 times with only that kind of gear available to him, especially with a full proto squad on the other team.
Galdor Seregon L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 46	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:08:00 - [3] - Quote How many starter suits are there? 4 or 5? thats 40 or 50 suits per match! And yeah, it doesn't seem very fair at first, but think what losing those suits would teach the newberries! the price of learning has and always will be steep in new eden. Sure we've all found the proto pub stomping matches, and they suck for isk and cost of suits, but if the newberries start running in a pack with everyone else, we might idk actually stand a chance against the squad of proto bears
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 283	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:14:00 - [4] - Quote Galdor Seregon wrote: How many starter suits are there? 4 or 5? thats 40 or 50 suits per match! And yeah, it doesn't seem very fair at first, but think what losing those suits would teach the newberries! the price of learning has and always will be steep in new eden. Sure we've all found the proto pub stomping matches, and they suck for isk and cost of suits, but if the newberries start running in a pack with everyone else, we might idk actually stand a chance against the squad of proto bears You know what the newberries would do? They would quit. Because not only is it bad enough that they have to die a ton, but now if they die more than 10 times in the militia assault fit, they will have to switch to the militia medic fit, where they die more. Then they will have to switch to the militia sniper fit, where they will die even more unless they want to snipe exclusively, and that just encourages more lone wolf sniper tactics. Then what is left? The militia AV fit?
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:41:00 - [5] - Quote [An extract from a New Player Experience megapost that I'm currently writing] 6.STARTER SUITS Before I tell you about my proposal for revamped starter suits, let me tell you a true story: Around the time Open Beta hit was when I joined. I also pulled a friend of mine with me, he joined about a month after I did. He promptly quit, refusing to play without me, as he just wasn't able to play effectively by himself. Fair enough, DUST is about teamwork. But then why am I still playing alone? I shrug, figuring solo DUST just isn't his thing, and forget about it. Fast forward a few months. Uprising hits, I manage to convince him to play a couple more matches. We play one match, he once again brings up how ineffective he feels; his wants to use scoped weapons but the only one he can try is the sniper, and it's just not doing enough damage. I start thinking about what other scoped weapons are available. Something clicks inside my head. On a hunch I tell him to use what little SP he had accrued passively on skilling into an advanced suit loadout. I set him up with a well fit 'Gallente Medium Frame G/1-series' with a 'GLU-5' TAR. We play one, two, three, five, seven matches. He's laughing on comms as he nails merc after merc with ruthless efficiency (some of that was down to TACs being OP, but I digress). I leave to make dinner, he kept playing (having had dinner earlier); he gets his turn squad commanding. It was like day and night, he was finally experiencing what I was experiencing: He cringed as he lost more suits than his paycheck could reimburse. He cheered when he made a profit (then he bought more suits). But most of all, he was having fun. So what did I learn? In his militia BPO starter suit, my friend wasn't feeling three very important things. He told me very bluntly: He didn't feel effective. His weapon didn't hurt. His dropsuit felt like it was made of papier mache. He didn't feel he was risking anything. DUST has been marketed as a harsh game where economic loss is a core factor in what you decide to risk for your reward. He didn't get the same risk induced rush he did while PvPing in EVE Online. I couldn't feel his pain because I have core skills that make up for it. He didn't have the skill set to make anything out of his suit. Now, here's the proposal: Uppon completion -- or skipping -- of the tutorial, the player is awarded 25 starter suits. Starter suits are fully fit with standard grade gear which cannot be removed, but can be replaced (yellow bracketed). Lost starter suits are automatically replenished from the player's wallet at a fixed rate of 10k ISK per suit (sold by NPCs). It is possible to go into negative wallet count should you lack the funds! The first two points are straightforward: terminate tutorial, instead of four BPOs you recieve ~~bacon~~ 25 starter suits of your race, complete with a standard grade yellow bracket load out. The consequence of the third point is the metaphorical removal of the safety barrier around the swimming pool. Some are going to slip and fall in and drown; but most will slip into the pool, learn to swim, and enjoy themselves despite the dead corpses. Once you stop losing 15 or more suits a match, you're going to be going positive in no time. The only effect of being in debt is the inability to purchase anything beyond starter gear (which is done automatically anyway). The best way to get out of debt is playing carefully, ideally well outside the kill zone; relying on your equipment to play support instead of being on the front lines. This "punishment" is actually a way to artificially -- and temporarily -- create support players. In other words: Casual players need not worry. If all you want is to log in and shoot people and not bother with skills or fittings, being in debt doesn't stop you from doing so. You may just end up with a huge red wallet in the end however (but maybe you can find a sponsor to pay it off!). This kind of system can be felt by its users. Newbies will feel the rush and sting of risking and losing their stuff; veterans won't use them if they can help it (they're not free suits anymore); the worst become assets to their team through what is essentially encouraged "logibro service". Some may decide to biomass and start over, but they lose their accumulated SP by doing so, so that's fair. The tagline for this is: Welcome to DUST 514! Here's a dropsuit, go kitten yourself.
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Unclaimed. 250	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:53:00 - [6] - Quote The starter suits are fine. The MLT starter fits are pretty crappy and by no means OP, as it should be. Now, free LAVs? That is another subject entirely. - New players should naturally want to fit better stuff on their own, I know I did. I didn't need a suit limit to encourage me to upgrade once I got the SP and some ISK in my pocket.
ZDub 303 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 167	Posted - 2013.05.18 20:14:00 - [7] - Quote I love this idea, +1.. it'll force people into at the very least making militia fits. Considering how bad those starter fits are. Also wouldn't object to removing them completely once you've hit something like 100k war points.
gobblygoohmy Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.05.18 20:44:00 - [8] - Quote Why not set gear restricted matches in line with current security status structures. High Sec = Militia / Standard grade gear only Low Sec = Adv and below Null Sec = Proto and below This way you know you will never see players with gear above a certain lvl and the only advantages would come from skills and player cooperation. It could even play along with eve lore, say the NPC factions don't allow certain technology in higher security regions to maintain stability in those sectors. Kind of like a geneva convention for gear.


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