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3x SP for those with under 6m SP

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CrotchGrab 360 Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 46	Posted - 2013.05.17 22:11:00 - [1] - Quote Gotta catch up somehow...
Forlorn Destrier ZionTCD Unclaimed. 968	Posted - 2013.05.17 22:13:00 - [2] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... Eve does this but only for first 1m - and then only at a 2x rate. In truth, I am opposed to this. There is no reason to try to "catch up" like you said. I do not want players being equal. I play pretty casual these days, and I like that others who have more time get rewarded for playing more. Don't take this away - this game is about domination, not equality.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 150	Posted - 2013.05.17 22:13:00 - [3] - Quote The concept of EVE and DUST is actually to never be able to catch up...
Schalac 17 Murderz for hire 140	Posted - 2013.05.17 22:13:00 - [4] - Quote Why not just boost it to 10x? Or we could just buy a million SP for say 10000 AUR. That seems fair right?
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 519	Posted - 2013.05.17 22:14:00 - [5] - Quote That would be great but then you wouldn't need boosters and since new players looking to catch up are the same players with the most incentive to buy boosters it's not a good idea business wise. I'm not saying the current system is good or bad but at the end of the day the game is free so the slow grind at the beginning is just going to be the way it is. EDIT: Also EVE doesn't do that anymore since they removed the Learning skills IIRC.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 287	Posted - 2013.05.17 22:16:00 - [6] - Quote I still only have 5M SP (took a few characters of messing around before I realized I needed to settle down with one) and I do not want your 3x SP thank you very much.
Bad Heal The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 6	Posted - 2013.05.17 23:13:00 - [7] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Why not just boost it to 10x? Or we could just buy a million SP for say 10000 AUR. That seems fair right? yes to this!! I have over 200,000 AUR!! Did someone say pay to win?
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 153	Posted - 2013.05.17 23:16:00 - [8] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... No you don't. You just have to match them. You see one thing people seem to forget is that just because persona X has more SP than you, it does not mean they're better at you at something. If I have 10Mil SP dedicated into being the best heavy I can be, and then I ware I light suit with a sniper rifle (No skill in those at all) I may as well, for all intents and purposes, have zero SP. Now of course I wouldn't do that, but my point is there are only so many SP per role and once you've gone as far as you can in that role, the SP gap no longer matters. A proto suit with proto mods and a proto gun, can't be advanced further, no matter how many more SP I get. Yes there are supporting skills but the diminishing returns soon kick in and the advantages become negligible. Does that make sense?
JX1 Goonfeet 28	Posted - 2013.05.17 23:29:00 - [9] - Quote Yeah let's keep new players from feeling like they have a chance of catching up and getting a chance denying CCP from gaining more customers.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 110	Posted - 2013.05.17 23:53:00 - [10] - Quote There's no need for players to catch up. However, a 2x or 3x boost for the first couple of mil might be a good idea from a marketing perspective anyway, as long as it's made clear to players that it's from a new player's boost.

Synfulwrath Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 5	Posted - 2013.05.18 00:09:00 - [11] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... Eve does this but only for first 1m - and then only at a 2x rate. In truth, I am opposed to this. There is no reason to try to "catch up" like you said. I do not want players being equal. I play pretty casual these days, and I like that others who have more time get rewarded for playing more. Don't take this away - this game is about domination, not equality. What? what in the world gave you that idea? its not about domination at all. it takes the same amount of time to get to the same "height". only thing time does is let you get wide. ive been playing eve for 8 years, i have 94mil SP, when i look at employment history to find character age all i know is that people at least 1-2 years old should be proficient in a few ships, and probably the one they are flying in. do you know what the first 30ish million SP got me? It got me the core skills and some T2 ships for gallente. Do you know what the next 70m got me? It let me unlock the same ships in the amarr, minmitar and caldari trees and their weapon systems. It let me get that extra 5% ship bonus and 3% damage by getting skills to lvl 5 instead of 4. just because i have 94mil SP doesnt mean im going to go into every fight wrecking face. the most i can get into a skill is lvl5, just like everyone else. i like the fact that people can be "equal" even if they are newer. but i also know that those newer people that fully spec'd into AR arent going to pull out a hard hitting swarm launcher or forge gun, or shotgun because they havent had the time to cross train into those yet. they are less flexible. but with time they will catch up. dust already lets people catch up. people who play more are not rewarded more. theres a weekly SP cap to prevent that. i actually find that a little frustrating because i cap by tuesday morning. My own personal feelings on that are like working a job. but once i start getting overtime instead of time and a half they start paying me minimum wage. so i dont work overtime. i go to another job (i play a different character)
WhiteMage7322 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.05.18 00:12:00 - [12] - Quote I wouldn't mind getting 3x SP but for everyone and CCP does it like once in a while. That way it can be fair to everyone and not to the point where CCP spoil everyone with SP events.
undeadsoldier90 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 428	Posted - 2013.05.18 01:17:00 - [13] - Quote Why should you or anyone else get rewarded for playing less than me? That's kind of not how eve and dust work....
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 679	Posted - 2013.05.18 01:25:00 - [14] - Quote How SP applies to EVE does not equal how SP applies to DUST. Not all EVE skills are combat related. The only non-combat related skills in DUST are probably the corporation ones. DUST revolves around PvP and EVE isn't. A level playing field is much more important for an FPS than a game like EVE.
Dusty Nelson The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 14	Posted - 2013.05.18 01:30:00 - [15] - Quote 6 Month from now, 1 Year from now, 2 Year's from now any new player will be coming to these forums saying the same thing about SP. New players coming to these forums and claiming because they didn't start DUST with everyone else at launch they need a SP Boost to catch up. Othey they played DUST Beta and say it sucked or whatever and months later they want to play again and then claim they can't catchup and that its unfair. Or they didn't started early like everyone else and they can't catchup. People tried that same argument in EVE for years after the game been out and there are players still claiming the same thing there today. Much because they didn't have the balls to start the game when it was new, had less content vs what it is now. People will claim the same thing in DUST now and in the future as CCP continue to polish the game, they will have the same argument right there on the forums.
Synfulwrath Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 5	Posted - 2013.05.18 01:55:00 - [16] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: Why should you or anyone else get rewarded for playing less than me? That's kind of not how eve and dust work.... Thats nothing how Eve works at all. You only have passive SP gain. You dont actually have to "play" at all. Vyzion Eyri wrote: How SP applies to EVE does not equal how SP applies to DUST. Not all EVE skills are combat related. The only non-combat related skills in DUST are probably the corporation ones. DUST revolves around PvP and EVE isn't. A level playing field is much more important for an FPS than a game like EVE. Why are you bringing up PVE skills? No one here has mentioned PVE skills at all... Dusty Nelson wrote: 6 Month from now, 1 Year from now, 2 Year's from now any new player will be coming to these forums saying the same thing about SP. New players coming to these forums and claiming because they didn't start DUST with everyone else at launch they need a SP Boost to catch up. Othey they played DUST Beta and say it sucked or whatever and months later they want to play again and then claim they can't catchup and that its unfair. Or they didn't started early like everyone else and they can't catchup. People tried that same argument in EVE for years after the game been out and there are players still claiming the same thing there today. Much because they didn't have the balls to start the game when it was new, had less content vs what it is now. People will claim the same thing in DUST now and in the future as CCP continue to polish the game, they will have the same argument right there on the forums. Your statements add nothing to this thread... you basically made 3 paragraphs saying the same thing a different way... Im not even sure what side your arguing... But the reason the system works, is because you can only ever get to level 5 in any particular skill. So it just takes some time and dedication and you'll have the skills to fly whatever it is you want. For instance your looking at a certain setup. All those relevant skills add up to 8m SP. thats everything at 5, primary, secondary, tertiary and support/core skills. So that means all you need is 8m SP to be the best that you can be in that ship. Doesnt matter if 10yr old 120m SP guy comes rolling in in the same setup. Because he cannot use his SP advantage because there isnt one. The most he can have with that setup is 8m SP worth of skill advantage. your on even ground not taking into account personal skill and experience.
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1196	Posted - 2013.05.18 01:58:00 - [17] - Quote Eve online has it!
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1197	Posted - 2013.05.18 02:01:00 - [18] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The concept of EVE and DUST is actually to never be able to catch up... That is nonsense, the genius is you can catch up. Every caps out at level 5. You can be just as strong as an odler player in 1 year, Done simple. How is this hard to grasp. You hit the level cap in one year. Then there are like 1000 other level caps. But you don't have to ever skill into any of them ever.
Synfulwrath Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 5	Posted - 2013.05.18 02:14:00 - [19] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The concept of EVE and DUST is actually to never be able to catch up... That is nonsense, the genius is you can catch up. Every caps out at level 5. You can be just as strong as an odler player in 1 year, Done simple. How is this hard to grasp. You hit the level cap in one year. Then there are like 1000 other level caps. But you don't have to ever skill into any of them ever. +1 to you for understanding this simple concept. And i didnt even see that guys post. His understanding of SP is sickening. It would make for a terrible game if the concept was to start as early as possible so you always had an advantage over everyone else. He strikes me as the type that would rage when hes killed by militia gear. There are no Tech 2 modules and skills that boost only those related Tech 2 modules (such as T2 weapons). So any weapon with a skill that increases damage (like the AR) would still get that bonus to the militia gear. Meaning his skills are compensating for his low meta gear. You may never catch up in total SP, but you can sure catch up in any particular setup. You just wont be able to diversify as much as someone with an SP advantage.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 272	Posted - 2013.05.18 02:51:00 - [20] - Quote Yeah no. I had to earn my SP. You should too newbie.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 456	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:08:00 - [21] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 456	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:12:00 - [22] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: How SP applies to EVE does not equal how SP applies to DUST. Not all EVE skills are combat related. The only non-combat related skills in DUST are probably the corporation ones. DUST revolves around PvP and EVE isn't. A level playing field is much more important for an FPS than a game like EVE. lol, still no. Also, Eve most certainly revolves around PVP. Having said that, Dust will probably pick up a number of noncombat skills in the near future as the cure of Dust is fleshed out.
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1197	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:34:00 - [23] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1561	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:35:00 - [24] - Quote This is an excellent idea. This allows new players to reach a competitive level rapidly while maintaining the balance of progression.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 679	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:35:00 - [25] - Quote Synfulwrath wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: How SP applies to EVE does not equal how SP applies to DUST. Not all EVE skills are combat related. The only non-combat related skills in DUST are probably the corporation ones. DUST revolves around PvP and EVE isn't. A level playing field is much more important for an FPS than a game like EVE. Why are you bringing up PVE skills? No one here has mentioned PVE skills at all... Also your argument doesn't even make sense. Just because its not an FPS doesn't mean that a game should be balanced? are you suggesting Eve isn't balanced? Buster Friently wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: How SP applies to EVE does not equal how SP applies to DUST. Not all EVE skills are combat related. The only non-combat related skills in DUST are probably the corporation ones. DUST revolves around PvP and EVE isn't. A level playing field is much more important for an FPS than a game like EVE. lol, still no. Also, Eve most certainly revolves around PVP. Having said that, Dust will probably pick up a number of noncombat skills in the near future as the cure of Dust is fleshed out. How I see it is that we can't compare EVE and DUST. That was my premise. Why? Because you don't have to participate in PvP in EVE to progress at all. You don't even have to do anything; SP is completely passive. In DUST, as we all know, we gain more SP per week through active SP, gained by actually playing matches (or AFKing in them). So if we're to discuss the viability of giving new players a bonus to SP gain, the reasons it currently is in place and works for EVE aren't the reasons they'll work in DUST.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 272	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:36:00 - [26] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply Because CCP caved to crybabies. Stay strong CCP!
Synfulwrath Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 8	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:40:00 - [27] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. The real issue here is still the fact that a 1m SP player can be tossed into a game vs 10-14m SP players. that's a big SP investment for proto suit/weapons and complex gear to properly tank out. There needs to be a better match making system. Buster Friently wrote: lol, still no. Also, Eve most certainly revolves around PVP. Having said that, Dust will probably pick up a number of noncombat skills in the near future as the cure of Dust is fleshed out. Spot on, almost all PVE supports PVP habits. industry builds for the pvp. how often do you lose your mission ship? almost never. mining goes to industry. Missions build isk and LP for rewards that are either used by you, or sold to pvpers. crazy space 1 wrote: If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply Actually i thought this bonus was removed? but im not entirely sure since i haven't made a new toon in a long time. The real issue is Matchmaking. I'm just saying. its really the big difference when your comparing similarities to eve. In eve your not forced to fight those vets, unless you get caught somehow, in 0.0 or in low sec, or even in war decs. But in Dust there's no filter. rookie ships vs T2 ships. go figure.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS 1376	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:44:00 - [28] - Quote Lower it to 4000. It took me 4 months to get this, at least make new players take 2 months yo!
crazy space 1 Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1197	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:46:00 - [29] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply Because CCP caved to crybabies. Stay strong CCP! No becuase it makes sense, allow players to get into one specialization more quickly and then you slow down while you branch out or you can go jack of all trades then level up slowly towards a class. Only a fool doesn't want new players to get an edge, it ust mean more players to play with faster. They won't catch up in total sp don't worry about it rolls eyes I've been around 8 years son
Synfulwrath Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 8	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:49:00 - [30] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: How I see it is that we can't compare EVE and DUST. That was my premise. Why? Because you don't have to participate in PvP in EVE to progress at all. You don't even have to do anything; SP is completely passive. In DUST, as we all know, we gain more SP per week through active SP, gained by actually playing matches (or AFKing in them). So if we're to discuss the viability of giving new players a bonus to SP gain, the reasons it currently is in place and works for EVE aren't the reasons they'll work in DUST. Thats not what you said though. I have never once in this thread supported the OP. You suggested that Eve is not balanced and that an FPS cant be compared to It because of PVP focus. You also claim that Eve is not a PVP focused game, to which i say it most certainly is. Because there are PVE content doesnt make it a PVE game. Vyzion Eyri wrote: How SP applies to EVE does not equal how SP applies to DUST. How SP "applies" is the same concept. SP improves skills to a maximum cap of 5 which increases your combat (or skill) potential. Next time please be more concise.

grreen mctree Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:52:00 - [31] - Quote Dust is not an rpg Dust is not an mmo Dust is a place where eve players are afraid of noobs
Synfulwrath Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 8	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:56:00 - [32] - Quote grreen mctree wrote: Dust is not an rpg Dust is not an mmo Dust is a place where eve players are afraid of noobs Only close minded people would enter dust from eve with a sense of entitlement having played the "parent" game, Eve Online. You are no better then they by trolling in here with that statement. Your comment has nothing to do with this thread. Please Troll elsewhere.
Victin Ashis KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 25	Posted - 2013.05.18 03:59:00 - [33] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply They don't, they did do that when learning skills were in game so that people could get the learning skills faster, but ended when the learning skills were removed.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 272	Posted - 2013.05.18 04:12:00 - [34] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply Because CCP caved to crybabies. Stay strong CCP! No becuase it makes sense, allow players to get into one specialization more quickly and then you slow down while you branch out or you can go jack of all trades then level up slowly towards a class. Only a fool doesn't want new players to get an edge, it ust mean more players to play with faster. They won't catch up in total sp don't worry about it rolls eyes I've been around 8 years son Why does it make sense to give players something you're only going to take away in short order? Christ, there are at least 4 posts here a day when some noob pops their weekly cherry, imagine the rage when they learn that the SP they were getting per match and wasting was only for their first 2 million(**** no to 6. I'm not even at 6 and I'm 2 months in. you should not get a free pass to skip MONTHS of what someone else did especially when the game just released.)
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 288	Posted - 2013.05.18 04:20:00 - [35] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Why not just boost it to 10x? Or we could just buy a million SP for say 10000 AUR. That seems fair right? From Pay-2-Win to Pay-2-not-play I love it. Make it so CCP :P
Sephiroth Cetra Amarr Assassins 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 15:56:00 - [36] - Quote I've never played Eve and I'm new to playing Dust, but I am quite experienced at FPS games. So as far as I can tell this is by far the most difficult game I've played in regards to being on a level playing field with other players and aquiring better weapons. What makes this game difficult and annoying is that new players like myself get set up in games against players who have the best drop suits and weapons, while I have only the basic drop suits and weapons. I wouldn't be so annoyed if I was put in games with players that are on the same level as me. Also if it wasn't so hard to earn skill points I wouldn't be annoyed, but as it is right now I can't progress in this game because of these factors. So I guess I will take a break from this game that lasts 4-5 days every week so my skill points can build up and I can use them to incresase my skill levels.
CharCharOdell Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 143	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:33:00 - [37] - Quote HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! NO. if they get 3x SP, so do the rest of us.
Fiasco Llana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 273	Posted - 2013.05.20 18:45:00 - [38] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply Because CCP caved to crybabies. Stay strong CCP! No becuase it makes sense, allow players to get into one specialization more quickly and then you slow down while you branch out or you can go jack of all trades then level up slowly towards a class. Only a fool doesn't want new players to get an edge, it ust mean more players to play with faster. They won't catch up in total sp don't worry about it rolls eyes I've been around 8 years son >Been around 8 years >Beta started in 2012 Seems legit. Or were you referring to your age? That I could understand.
Encharrion L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 105	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:09:00 - [39] - Quote Victin Ashis wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. If that's true why does eve online give new players x2 training speed up to 2 million sp? Come on I dare you to reply They don't, they did do that when learning skills were in game so that people could get the learning skills faster, but ended when the learning skills were removed. I'm sure they only increased training speed for new players AFTER they removed the learning skills, I'll have to check that later. As far as an sp multiplier for new players, I am in support of the idea, not because it lets them catch up, but it lets them acquire important support skills faster to allow them to be competitive sooner.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 33	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:26:00 - [40] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... First off, no one needs to catch up. Once you get a core build down (about 3 months BTW) you can only diversify with SP. This seems fine to me. Second off, newbies would only waste the points initially, and there'd be even more crying for respecs. So - we Beta guys have had our fair share of resets and respecs. I say do it, also give them 2-3 chances to respec but with the warning that after that their character is set. Also take the best threads from this forum and clean them up and make them concise bullet points and add that to the training area in whatever form is best. Got to grow the game.

Mad Proffeser MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 19:42:00 - [41] - Quote I say no to the 2x till 2 mil, but you could raise the weekly sp cap. 250-500 thousand for everybody as a weekly seem good.
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 21:03:00 - [42] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Gotta catch up somehow... Would you like some peaches and cream with that too
CrotchGrab 360 Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 67	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:14:00 - [43] - Quote hahahhaha DAM! I don't even remember making this thread, and there's 3 pages of replies lol that's hilarious, nice to see everyone's opinions, kind of a mixed bag!
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 478	Posted - 2013.05.20 22:39:00 - [44] - Quote Umm not sure I like this


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