DUST Search - A problem with logistics?

Cosgar wrote:

RINON114 wrote:

Wow, a lot of nasty names being thrown about, chill guys. My point is that a logi is and always will be better than any frontline soldier at proto level. They can stack nanohives to make them actually useful, and revive and repair everybody. There's a reason logi's usually come top of the board and that's not because they're OP, it's because they are far too versatile.

I'm not even suggesting a nerf, not really, what I am suggesting is that there is an intermediary.

Logi's have better CPU and PG but instead of lacking any drawback to not using it for it's intended role, they get a bonus to CPU and PG in unused equipment slots.

Like I said earlier, the point is NOT to nerf the logi, but to have an intermediary.

Do you even Logi, bro?

The problem, is that you're generalizing and throwing fuel on an already dying fire. The addition of the Scrambler Rifle is taking care of the source of the "Logi Gate" issue: Caldari Logistics. (I put it in bold in case if you missed it the first time)

There's been a ton of threads on here on the issue here, here, and here. After we all realized what the real issue was, the (bolding again for you) Caldari Logi because of their overpowered racial bonus, the current sensible members of our community have been discussing the Caldari Logi, and the issue with the Assault class being relatively underpowered here.
But, you decided to come along with your unwarranted sense of self entitlement and make yet, another nerf all the logis thread without using the search function.

On the topic of versatility, I'll leave a good quote from another thread on the topic:

NeoWraith Acedia wrote:

The heavy is a 10X skill, all it can do is camp.

Why are logistics more customizable than assault suits? Because they traded their base stats for those extra slots. An assaults role is predetermined by it's it's base stats, a logistics suit isn't. We can take those extra slots and do what what we want with them, meanwhile you guys are stuck with a permanent high/low slot in the form of health. Heavy suits are stuck with permanent Shield extenders and armor plates. You want more freedom in your fits? Give up some stats, but all those extra slots will cost you more ISK.

Why can't a heavy run at 8m/s? Because it's a heavy.

And if that's not enough to convince you that the Caldari Logistics is the real problem, then let me put it this way. Let's say just because the tactical assault rifle is OP right now, several "ZoMg! NeRf ThE, AR!" threads popped up when it's only the TAR that needs rebalancing. Generalizing doesn't feel too good now does it? Welcome to my world, and excuse me for being a bit pissed off about a dead horse being beaten, injected with nanites, put down and beaten again.


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RINON114 B.S.A.A. 158	Posted - 2013.05.17 15:45:00 - [1] - Quote Logistics suits seem a little bit out of balance right now. Personally I feel we should do away with the suit itself and have a skill that allows for extra equipment slots. Just a quick thought, will expand more later.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 159	Posted - 2013.05.18 05:56:00 - [2] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: RINON114 wrote: Logistics suits seem a little bit out of balance right now. Personally I feel we should do away with the suit itself and have a skill that allows for extra equipment slots. Just a quick thought, will expand more later. No. Please go find some other game to fit your AR514 mentality. Whoa, slow down there pickle. Sorry I didn't have time to elaborate but seriously, hold onto those presumptuous horses of yours. The reason I suggested this is because I feel like logistics suits have too much of an advantage over assault, let alone basic medium frames. Sure they don't get a sidearm but they can stack all kinds of modules that negate all their other weaknesses. Perhaps to further define their role they could lose some high and low slots so they aren't better on the frontline than assault soldiers.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 159	Posted - 2013.05.18 06:14:00 - [3] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: Just make them slower than assault suits, it worked before uprising. Or give good bonuses to all assault suits, they are currently quite lacking. (shield recharge for gallente and amarr? reload for caldari? LOL) This is my point exactly really, currently logistics are better for frontline assault and, in fact, better at almost everything, lacking a sidearm isn't the biggest drawback ever unless you're using a sniper rifle. My point here is also to do the exact opposite of Presumptuous Mcgee and stop the AR logistics being king of the field. More later when I have time...
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 160	Posted - 2013.05.18 10:46:00 - [4] - Quote Wow, a lot of nasty names being thrown about, chill guys. My point is that a logi is and always will be better than any frontline soldier at proto level. They can stack nanohives to make them actually useful, and revive and repair everybody. There's a reason logi's usually come top of the board and that's not because they're OP, it's because they are far too versatile. I'm not even suggesting a nerf, not really, what I am suggesting is that there is an intermediary. Logi's have better CPU and PG but instead of lacking any drawback to not using it for it's intended role, they get a bonus to CPU and PG in unused equipment slots. Like I said earlier, the point is NOT to nerf the logi, but to have an intermediary.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 160	Posted - 2013.05.18 11:39:00 - [5] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: So any other bright ideas you like to share with the class before we throw you out the airlock? Add something to the discussion you ludicrous infant, instead of polishing that tiny glimmer in your pants that you like to kid yourself into believing is any form of an e-peen. Back to the matter at hand. Logis were great in chromosone as they weren't the only suit able to fulfil the role. Proto assaults got a second slot and so they seemed to be more balanced but the fact that people are using logistics suits as assault suits is telling me that something is wrong.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 160	Posted - 2013.05.18 12:36:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: RINON114 wrote: Wow, a lot of nasty names being thrown about, chill guys. My point is that a logi is and always will be better than any frontline soldier at proto level. They can stack nanohives to make them actually useful, and revive and repair everybody. There's a reason logi's usually come top of the board and that's not because they're OP, it's because they are far too versatile. I'm not even suggesting a nerf, not really, what I am suggesting is that there is an intermediary. Logi's have better CPU and PG but instead of lacking any drawback to not using it for it's intended role, they get a bonus to CPU and PG in unused equipment slots. Like I said earlier, the point is NOT to nerf the logi, but to have an intermediary. Do you even Logi, bro? The problem, is that you're generalizing and throwing fuel on an already dying fire. The addition of the Scrambler Rifle is taking care of the source of the "Logi Gate" issue: Caldari Logistics. (I put it in bold in case if you missed it the first time) There's been a ton of threads on here on the issue here, here, and here. After we all realized what the real issue was, the (bolding again for you) Caldari Logi because of their overpowered racial bonus, the current sensible members of our community have been discussing the Caldari Logi, and the issue with the Assault class being relatively underpowered here. But, you decided to come along with your unwarranted sense of self entitlement and make yet, another nerf all the logis thread without using the search function. On the topic of versatility, I'll leave a good quote from another thread on the topic: NeoWraith Acedia wrote: The heavy is a 10X skill, all it can do is camp. Why are logistics more customizable than assault suits? Because they traded their base stats for those extra slots. An assaults role is predetermined by it's it's base stats, a logistics suit isn't. We can take those extra slots and do what what we want with them, meanwhile you guys are stuck with a permanent high/low slot in the form of health. Heavy suits are stuck with permanent Shield extenders and armor plates. You want more freedom in your fits? Give up some stats, but all those extra slots will cost you more ISK. Why can't a heavy run at 8m/s? Because it's a heavy. And if that's not enough to convince you that the Caldari Logistics is the real problem, then let me put it this way. Let's say just because the tactical assault rifle is OP right now, several "ZoMg! NeRf ThE, AR!" threads popped up when it's only the TAR that needs rebalancing. Generalizing doesn't feel too good now does it? Welcome to my world, and excuse me for being a bit pissed off about a dead horse being beaten, injected with nanites, put down and beaten again. Ugh. I'm not asking for a nerf. I might have accidentally implied it in a rushed post between teaching classes but seriously, all this effort to put down a long standing member of the community? Ty, GÇ£broGÇ¥. And no I don't logi, not anymore but from a logical standpoint they don't seem to have many tradeoffs for all their strengths where the assault suit gets nothing. Thanks for linking me to those threads, but I don't really need them. This was simply a quick thought that I scribbled on the forums before going to bed, ready to be expanded later and all I see is pure asinine defense for the logi instead of reading the true intent which is to make an intermediary. /done
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 160	Posted - 2013.05.18 13:55:00 - [7] - Quote I hope you're not a psychologist because you're entirely wrong. My problem here is that I had only a few minutes to post between teaching today but felt like this was a subject I needed to address. I GÇ£reachedGÇ¥ for the idea of a GÇ£nerfGÇ¥ because I like to keep the discussion going. Can I clarify here? - I do not want a nerf of logistics. I want clearly defined roles or better yet an intermediary. There is a problem when logistics can do a better job than an assault suit in all situations though, and you didn't really need to be such a jerk about it. Again, I thank you for bringing my attention to the large discussion already in progress. To hopefully finish this GÇ£argumentGÇ¥: I wasn't calling you asinine, your defence is perfectly valid.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 160	Posted - 2013.05.18 14:24:00 - [8] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Ive said this before, but these type of post keep poping up. All those extra mod slots logis have are used to get the suit stats close to par to that of an unmodded assault. Once the assault is modded, its stats still trump that of the logis. take a proto assault full mod and compare it to that of a proto logi with identical mods plus fill the extra slots with whatever, and you will see the assault is still superior. assault is the best assault class. Logis are used to being outmatched, so we have to build on our individual tactics for survivability. Assualt players that die to logis are just out skilled, as assault players tend to just rush at everything, and tend to use less tactics. Get over the fact that assualt shouldn't be easy mode that you want, get some real skills, then come back with more constructive posts. That being said, I laughed when I wo so many people go caldari logi. I expect most of those silly assault players that went this route will be assault again once the petitioned respec is up. Once again, these were assault style players looking for an easy mode. Please understand that this is not a QQ about logi troops, I honestly wish there were more. It's a cry for something to be done about the disparity between the logi and the assault. Thank you for not just jumping entirely down my throat on this one.