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Crucias Soulreaver
Gothic Wars Consortium
2
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Posted - 2013.05.17 09:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Obviously as an HAV driver I dislike being killed by various AV in a fashion that sometimes makes my armour (Gallente) seem like tissue paper, but it balances out the sheer amount of carnage I can inflict so fair do's.
However, some players have started ramming free LAVs into HAVs, jumping out at the last second and rapid throwing AV Grenades at said HAVs. If I see them coming I can try hit them with Missiles, but with the way they bounce over the ground I need a direct hit to down them quickly. Even with cohesive infantry support in FW the sheer amount of DPS these buggers can put onto HAVs means they can down them before the squad mutilates them, especially if there's 3 of them in the LAV.
Obviously this cannot be easily addressed because AV grenades are a vital part of the game, without them I would be nigh unstoppable within tight street confines. So some suggestions:
- Make the free LAV blueprint limited run - like a BPC on EVE, 10 runs or so
- Make the blueprint LAV only able to hold a driver and gunner, no passenger
- Introduce a stumble mechanic when dismounting at speed from all vehicles *
- Lock the loadout on blueprint LAV (so it cannot be made tough enough to survive charging tanks)
- Implement an impact hierarchy based on mass **
- Make AV grenades dilute their splash damage across adjacent vehicles ***
- Weaken the "homing pidgeon" mechanic on AV grenades ****
- Remove grenade restock from non-Prototype Nano Hives *****
- Fix the "velcro surface" issue with HAVs ******
* For example: on Halo when you get jacked, you move and turn slowly for 5s, but also prevent shooting (this would also stop Heavy Suit HMG spam from previous build if still around) - alternatively make dropsuits have to "roll" like in Defiance. If they want to use it as a transport they can, but make them have to slow before dismounting without detrimental effects.
** LAV < Dropship < HAV -- something on the left cannot harm something on the right through impact
*** So your suicide LAV will make it take longer to kill the HAV, and/or grenades can home in on the LAV carcass
**** They need to home in a little to assist aim, but I've seen them magnetically clamp to tanks when the throw was off by two HAV lengths. Basically ensure you need to be closer and cannot just spam them blindly over obstacles. My suggestion would be to make explosions cause ECM interference that has a cumulative detrimental effect on homing; if you want to take down a tank with grenades alone, you will have to use some skill.
***** If they want to pinata an HAV, then they have to spend SP and ISK to a comparable level to do so
****** If I am moving to evade AV I should not velcro to surfaces if I impact them slightly, I should take some damage and loose some momentum
Final Point - Do not just nerf AV Grenades into oblivion, they are required for balance and to make it challenging (and therefore entertaining) for us HAV drivers. Just address WAYS of using them so they cannot be exploited as horrendously as is currently rampant ingame. |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
16
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Posted - 2013.05.17 10:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Its a viable tactic, dont use a missle turret.
CCP, make a packed with explosive moduel so suicide LAVs create more boom for running into the tank. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1340
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Posted - 2013.05.17 10:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Don't nerf the AV Grenades at all - they're only freaggin thing that's worth a damn anymore besides Railgun Installations.... |
Djheffer
O.Q.R.D.
10
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Posted - 2013.05.17 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Don't nerf the AV Grenades at all - they're only freaggin thing that's worth a damn anymore besides Railgun Installations....
Railgun installations are horrible. Tanks kill them so fast, and a good tank will always take them out asap. High level AV gernades hit like a truck, and are easily replenished and spammed with good positioning. Forge gun/swarm launchers seem to just be opener/finishers. Unless your a shield tank, then forge guns are all you need haha. But the ramming of vehicles is usually something that my teammates do to my tank. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
10
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Posted - 2013.05.17 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
av damage could be reduced by half while swarm launcher damage is increased.
and for ramming lavs into tanks i thank for the idea i might try this some time. although i believe the small blaster turret needs an increase in damage is it just cant kill anything while moving.... |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
930
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Posted - 2013.05.17 22:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
I love the idea of kamikaze LAV.
I despise BPO LAV.
The tactic as you describe it is fair. As a tank driver, have a forge gunner in your gun seat. It's an insanely potent combo and stops most LAV jerks in their tracks. Nothing quite says "SURPRISE, DIRTBAG!!" like a forge gun appearing out of nowhere to a weak LAV.
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Tankin Tarkus
Quafe Runners
10
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Posted - 2013.05.17 23:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:av damage could be reduced by half while swarm launcher damage is increased.
and for ramming lavs into tanks i thank for the idea i might try this some time. although i believe the small blaster turret needs an increase in damage is it just cant kill anything while moving....
small blasters arent too bad just ever slightly weaker than AR's which are blasters anyways not sure what their RoF is which may make them stronger DPS wise |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
302
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Posted - 2013.05.18 00:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:
The tactic as you describe it is fair.
The tactic would be air if not, as you mentioned, the BPO LAVs. But the, I've always hated those. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1439
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Posted - 2013.05.18 05:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tankin Tarkus wrote:CLONE117 wrote:av damage could be reduced by half while swarm launcher damage is increased.
and for ramming lavs into tanks i thank for the idea i might try this some time. although i believe the small blaster turret needs an increase in damage is it just cant kill anything while moving.... small blasters arent too bad just ever slightly weaker than AR's which are blasters anyways not sure what their RoF is which may make them stronger DPS wise
Sure thats why a advanced scattered blaster deals 39HP per hit on a RPM which is over 900. If you are good with a small blaster you melt people insanely fast. |
Tankin Tarkus
Quafe Runners
14
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Posted - 2013.05.18 05:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
ok ya 900rpm to the AR's i think 750 so the 20GJ is slightly weaker than an assault rifle but a bit faster
so DPS wise the 20GJ is better aside from having to cool down |
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Kovak Therim
ZionTCD
Unclaimed.
250
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Posted - 2013.05.18 06:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:I love the idea of kamikaze LAV.
I despise BPO LAV.
The tactic as you describe it is fair. As a tank driver, have a forge gunner in your gun seat. It's an insanely potent combo and stops most LAV jerks in their tracks. Nothing quite says "SURPRISE, DIRTBAG!!" like a forge gun appearing out of nowhere to a weak LAV.
Take away free vehicles. The tactic is fine, but the player slamming into the tank should be risking ISK, too. Might help to cut back on Demo Derby 514, too. I say this as a heavy player that has trouble getting around and will probably spec into LAVs at some point.
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CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
17
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Posted - 2013.06.19 15:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
i dont see the free mlt lav as the murder taxi... the true murder taxi is the logistics lav..... |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
834
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't mind the free LAV, in a game where there is a lot of distance to cover, having free transport around the field isn't a bad idea.
However...
The fact that the free LAV can take any damage at all is stupid as hell. I see the free LAV as basically a shuttle from EVE. It should be slower, have no slots, and not enough HP to survive a single AV grenade. If you want to have a militia LAV that has some more options and health...cool, but at least then it's not totally free.
As for suicide vehicles, totally a valid tactic. We've taken a dropship deep into the redline to drop 6 guys on top of a sniper Enforcer and cascade it with AV grenades before we get killed by the redline timer. That **** is hilarious. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1675
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, one battle I've had the problem that whenever I tried driving my LAV to a position where I could get a lock with my swarm launcher on a red HAV, I would get suicide rammed by a red LAV. It got annoying as hell. |
IVANJAKANOV
Not Guilty
EoN.
0
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Posted - 2013.07.18 08:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think all vehicles should still be able to do impact damage to each other, maybe starter LAVs should do less damage though since they're free.
I like a few of the points you make like locking the loadout, and making it limited run (or so that you can only call in a limited number of them per game). And the velcro surface thing kind of needs to be fixed, especially when it does damage to and/or blows up your tank, but really the solution to that is better driving.
I'm pretty sure there's already an impact hierarchy for mass, or at least for hitpoints and resistance. All LAVs would blow each other up in head on collisions if there wasn't something like this already. Right now a logistics LAV can survive a head on collision with a lesser LAV. Most decent tanks can withstand an LAV impact, and militia tanks are always going to be weak.
Stumble mechanic sounds like a bad idea, there's already some mechanic now that sometimes launches the driver/passenger (sometimes they can get very high up in the air) if he gets out of a moving vehicle.
All the rest of the stuff you're asking for sounds like asking for less risk while in tanks, but there should always be risk.
If people are ballsy enough to run up on a tank they deserve a chance to kill it no matter how, it's up to you to stop them and starter LAVs are pretty easy to stop. The people are wrong who say those guys who run up on a tank in a starter LAV aren't risking anything, they could easily all get blown up in the LAV, get shot out of it, or get shot down when they bail out of the vehicle if they even make it out, and the dropsuit fittings aren't free since there is no AV grenade blueprint; not to mention the risk of taking deaths in the stats. I think it's more likely these people would die repeatedly trying to do this to a good tank/tank driver, and the tank would get lots of points.
Maybe if we had more blueprint vehicles like dropships and tanks you would feel differently about the risk vs reward.
Also, about the AV grenade spam, I think there might've been a slight fix to that since grenades seem to have a delay between throws. |
TheEnd762
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2013.07.18 09:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
I really cannot thank you enough for bringing this strategy to my attention. Not wanting to waste the ridiculous amount of SP it would take to get to proto AV nades, I'm always looking for new, reasonable ways to take out tanks. |
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