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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
101
   |
Posted - 2013.05.17 08:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
How about:
Skill Changes:
Dropsuit Command:
-+The basic operation of dropsuits.
-+2% increased max stamina for all dropsuits per skill level.
-+Unlocks Medium dropsuits at level 1; Light dropsuits at level 2; Heavy dropsuits at level 3; and specializations at level 5.
[Race] [FrameSize] Dropsuits:
-+Skill at operating [Race] [FrameSize] Dropsuits.
GùÿBonuses are moved from the skill to the individual dropsuit.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 1-3 depending on [FrameSize]
[Specialization] Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of [Specialization] class dropsuits.
GùÿBonuses are moved from the skill to the individual dropsuit.
GùÿThis skill does not govern what racial dropsuits you can use.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇó[ExtraPrerequisiteSkill1] 5
GÇó[ExtraPrerequisiteSkill2] 5
Examples:
Assault Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of Assault class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóHandheld Weapon Upgrades 5
GÇóDropsuit Biotic Upgrades 5
Logisitics Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of Logistics class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóDropsuit Engineering 5
GÇóDropsuit Electronics 5
Scout Dropsuits
-+Skill for the operation of Scout class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóDropsuit Electronics 5
GÇóDropsuit Biotic Upgrades 5
Sentinel Dropsuits:
-+Skill for the operation of Sentinel class dropsuits.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóDropsuit Armor Upgrades 5
GÇóDropsuit Shield Upgrades 5
Dropsuit Changes:
-+Dropsuits do away with STD/ADV/PRO levels; tier systems are bad; all suits should be useful.
-+All dropsuits get two per level bonuses from their operation skills: One for defence, one for offence.
-+Specialization suits get an extra two bonuses from the specialization skill, relevant to the specialization.
Example:
Amarr Medium Dropsuit:
-+General all-purpose dropsuit, suited for almost every purpose, but specializing in none. A jack-of-all-trades frame.
GùÿAmarr Medium Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+2% reduction to speed penalty of Armor Plates.
-+5% reduction to heat generated by Laser weaponry.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 1
GÇóAmarr Medium Dropsuits 1
Amarr Assault Dropsuit:
-+Front-line fighter. Balanced between mobility and offensive capability.
GùÿAmarr Medium Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+2% reduction to speed penalty of Armor Plates.
-+5% reduction to heat generated by Laser weaponry.
GùÿAssault Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+5% bonus to max stamina and stamina regeneration.
-+2% bonus to efficacy of damage modifiers.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóAmarr Medium Dropsuits 5
GÇóAssault Dropsuits 1
Amarr Logistics Dropsuit:
-+Support-oriented dropsuit with more PG/CPU, designed to be a force multiplier; part of a team.
GùÿAmarr Medium Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+2% reduction to speed penalty of Armor Plates.
-+5% reduction to heat generated by Laser weaponry.
GùÿLogistics Dropsuits skill bonus per level:
-+5% reduction to CPU/PG cost of Equipment.
-+2% bonus to Armor resistance.
GùïPrerequisites:
GÇóDropsuit Command 5
GÇóAmarr Medium Dropsuits 5
GÇóLogistics Dropsuits 1
This particular system makes specializations independent of race, but you still need the racial dropsuit skill to 5 to use that race of specialized dropsuit. Additionally, with the removal of suit tiers, all dropsuits can be better balanced against one another, and so we get better tactical play with certain suits countering each other more easily than others (it's still mainly down to user skill to take advantage of this however).
The SP sinks are moved from useless skills that don't particularly give anything useful, to skills that aid the suit you're training for (for example, extra speed and CPU for scout suits, who rely on speed and need all the CPU they can get). There's nothing wrong with SP sinks, they just need to give something meaningful in return for each level.
Giving skill bonuses to all suits replicates aspects of the tier system, but in less radical ways than offering extra fittings and/or slots. There's a huge difference between being able to fit one basic mod, and someone else able to get away with three complex ones. Doing away with suit tiers means the difference is only in gear quality and the bonuses from the suit operation skill. This is much more even footing than currently.
I've purposely left out discussing slot layouts and specific stats, because those are down to CCP; but I'd like to see specializations have similar slot counts to basics, but with different distributions to suit the role.
For example:
Caldari Basic suit: 11 slots, 4H/2L/2E + 1 Light, 1 Sidearm and 1 grenade slot.
Caldari Assault suit: 11 slots, 3H/3L/1E + 1 Light, 1 Sidearm and 2 grenade slots.
Caldari Logistics suit: 11 slots, 5H/1L/3E + 1 Light, 1 Sidearm and no grenade slots (or 2 Sidearms).
Thoughts? |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 10:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:well ^^ in eve you train a single skill to unlock that class for all races....
EVE Player checking in! 
crazy space 1 wrote:Maybe we need Specialaztion skills to be Independent of race.
So keep all 12 race/size skills, and then have a new tab that unlocks specilzations. If you level up scout you should get use every scout as long as you train that race/size suit.
Yep. A good analogy might be coding for web browsers. The coding languages (specialization) are the same across browsers, but the browsers (racial suits) are all different and so you need to know what hooks and functions the browsers can best make use of. You also don't need to code for browsers to use or understand a particular browser. It's a cheesy analogy, but I think it works. The bonus from the specialization skill should obviously be different from suit to suit.
crazy space 1 wrote:The rest of what you said is also every interesting, adding different bonuses to basic suits, but right now I'm focused purely on how we can change the current skill system in a few weeks to better cope with what we have now.
I'm honestly not sure I can come up with any better ideas right now :P So.... hmmmmm
IMO the biggest deal is shuffling prerequisites to skills that are useful to a given path, revamping SP for things like Engineering and Electronics, and giving players reasons to train what are currently 'SP sink' skills.
Removing multiple prerequisites was a bad choice IMO.
e: Just something extra:
The system suggested theoretically allows for multiple suits of the same race in the same frame.
E.g. multiple Amarr Medium Dropsuits with different stats and bonuses from the same operation skill.
I was also going to suggest merging all the skill trees into one giant tree with filters, similar in operation to the star map. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote: The bonus from the specialization skill should obviously be different from suit to suit.
Right right and it would make sense then why every suit has one of the same bonuses. Because it's shared across a single skill but then each race adds a twist.
Depends on the intended role of the suit within the class. For example you could have multiple of the same racial suit in the same class, but they'd have different roles and bonuses from the same skills. The EVE equivalent is having the Jaguar and Wolf as assault ships; one is geared towards fast shields and kiting, the other towards armor tanking and brawling, but they both use the same ship skills.
EVE has a nice modular skill system that allows for extra ships to be added if deemed appropriate. Dust in its current state would seem to require entirely new skills should we ever want extra sets of suits with different bonuses.
crazy space 1 wrote:So if you want to use a Minmatar Scout and you allready have scout trained to 5, all you need to do is train at least one level in minmatar light dropsuits. 3 for advanced, 5 for prototype. But even the standard would get level 5 bonuses. Which would rock hardcore.
Well, you'd still have to train Minmatar Light Dropsuits to 5 to actually use the Minmatar Scout suits. I was also supporting the idea of removing suit tiers (standard/advanced/prototype) entirely. Somewhat controversial, but I believe it would be good for the health of the game.
crazy space 1 wrote:Also I agree that basic suits need bonuses as part of a change like this. Think about it to you devs reading this. Your eve counterparts have even started adding bonuses to the rookie ships. So lets get on track and add a single bonus per level to basic suits, and then have the 2 other bonuses only be on specialized suits.
There should be a way to make this work while keeping the tree view.
What I find interesting is how the team in charge of DUST 514 is making a lot of the same mistakes that CCP did with EVE Online, but at an accelerated rate. It's pretty fascinating, but it also speaks volumes about how much more communication may need to happen between the devs that work on EVE and those that work on DUST. I believe the CPM and CSM can be invaluable in bridging that gap.
IWS actually had a thread about dropsuit restructuring in the F&I section.
Might want to move the conversation there? Supposedly the Council Chambers is for discussing the CPM. 
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75214&find=unread |
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