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Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
ImpureMort wrote:Laheon wrote:Ric Barlom wrote:Well I might just go buy the book and read it, but let me ask you a question: Do you interact with guys the way you interact with girls? Do you interact with kids the same way you interact with elderly people? I don't, and I'm pretty sure you don't either. Yes and no. I treat girls the same as I treat guys. Actually, I treat everyone as I feel they should be treated, based on their personality. Admittedly I treat kids and elderly people different, but that's because kids love using me as a climbing frame, and elderly people are slightly more mature than that. epic answer of the day. kids are a bunch of lil monkies xD
I met an 8 year old on EVE online who was one of the best incursion FCs I've ever met. SPACE MONKEY!!!! Seriously, this kid knew his stuff. His mother was actually in the fleet with us, and deferring to his expertise the entire time like a proud parent. I'm pretty sure she was a better FC, but this kid was epic. Really knew his stuff. We flew about nine hours of VG slowboat armour fleets, earned a few billion isk each, and didn't lose a single ship. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 16:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Laheon wrote:Ric Barlom wrote:So if that shirtless construction worker, with an oiled up sixpack, comes up to you for some chit chat, I assume you're gonna fire up that conversation about your periods as an icebreaker? Well I'm maybe a weak man here, but when I see that sex bomb of a woman in high heels coming my direction, I'm gonna be in full salute and you can be sure I'm not gonna be having the same conversations with her that I'd be having with the dudes back in the pub. I'd more likely be extra friendly too. But that's just me and if that makes me a bad apple, I guess I'm gonna have to wait until I get a bit older for my testosterone levels to go down just enough for me calm down. I'm a guy. If some shirtless construction worker with an oiled up sixpack walks up to me and starts chatting me up, I'm getting the **** out of there. Either that or get him to benchpress me a couple of times, which would be kinda awesome. As for girls you actually lust after, that's different. It's not as if I see a girl and instantly want to sleep with her. Besides which, you're getting off-topic. The subject is girls in gaming. I'm not going to treat a female on my team as a potential incompetent simply because she's a different gender. My bad, bro. And I don't treat girls as a bad player either just because she happens to be a girl. I do, however, interact with them differently than I do with the guys at pub and oh yeah, when I wake up with that stiff morning boner, get some ethiopian coffee, fire up my Dust 514, squad up with that babe with a sexy voice, I will throw in a couple of dirty jokes just to get my day started. Is that such a bad thing, dude?
The jokes? Probably not. But as long as you realise nobody cares what's going on in your pants, and telling everyone about it on a video game is probably going to come across as creepy. Also, if your jokes are crap, don't be offended if that girl doesn't want to squad with you anymore. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lauren Ceiwa wrote:Ric Barlom wrote:Laheon wrote:Ric Barlom wrote:So if that shirtless construction worker, with an oiled up sixpack, comes up to you for some chit chat, I assume you're gonna fire up that conversation about your periods as an icebreaker? Well I'm maybe a weak man here, but when I see that sex bomb of a woman in high heels coming my direction, I'm gonna be in full salute and you can be sure I'm not gonna be having the same conversations with her that I'd be having with the dudes back in the pub. I'd more likely be extra friendly too. But that's just me and if that makes me a bad apple, I guess I'm gonna have to wait until I get a bit older for my testosterone levels to go down just enough for me calm down. I'm a guy. If some shirtless construction worker with an oiled up sixpack walks up to me and starts chatting me up, I'm getting the **** out of there. Either that or get him to benchpress me a couple of times, which would be kinda awesome. As for girls you actually lust after, that's different. It's not as if I see a girl and instantly want to sleep with her. Besides which, you're getting off-topic. The subject is girls in gaming. I'm not going to treat a female on my team as a potential incompetent simply because she's a different gender. My bad, bro. And I don't treat girls as a bad player either just because she happens to be a girl. I do, however, interact with them differently than I do with the guys at pub and oh yeah, when I wake up with that stiff morning boner, get some ethiopian coffee, fire up my Dust 514, squad up with that babe with a sexy voice, I will throw in a couple of dirty jokes just to get my day started. Is that such a bad thing, dude? Yes? I don't play dust to get hit on by guys, I play dust to kill people in dropsuits with knives. Also, way to fulfill the stereotype of the pervy male gamer. You're doing wonders for your kind.
On the other hand, his freedom of speech grants him the right to tell these jokes. Your freedom to mute him grants you the right to subject him to the digital equivalent of a cold shoulder. I have no time on video games for little boys that give girl gamers so much attention that they forget what they're doing in the game, so I tend to mute them or refuse to engage them in conversation when in game if the opportunity to mute was missed.
Please don't lump all guy gamers into the same crowd, though. I may have no time for the Anna Sarkesian version of gamer feminism where everything offensive to women must be censored, but I'm in the games for the gaming and as much as I have no time for males that focus their attention on stereotyping the women, I also have no time for women who stereotype men. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote: So you're calling me a perv already? C'mon you know better than that and if we ever had a real conversation you'd probably like me too. Bet it's refreshing to talk to someone who's actually straight forward about stuff too instead of all these guys who pretend to be eunuchs.
That is incredibly presumptive, particularly egotistical, and will make most women like you less. Do you even know what the word eunuch means? No guy would ever pretend to be one unless he needed incredible urgent psychological care. Plenty of men are straightforward about stuff, including sexual attraction and preference, but plenty of men like yourself are also incredibly inappropriate about it. It is unnerving for women when a man they don't know anything about comes up to them and just randomly starts talking about sex in a "straightforward" manner as if they're all just great friends.
Let me put things into perspective. I'll tell you a cool story.
A teacher was discussing catcalling with a group of high-school freshmen in her English class. They were discussing homosexuality because of an allusion to it in the book they were reading, and several boys made comments such as, "That's disgusting." They got into the debate and eventually a boy admitted that he was terrified/disgusted when he was once sharing a taxi and the other male passenger made a pass at him.
The lightbulb went off. "Oh," the teacher said. "I get it. See, you are afraid, because for the first time in your life you have found yourself a victim of unwanted sexual advances by someone who has the physical ability to use force against you." The boy nodded and shuddered visibly.
"But," she continued. "As a woman, you learn to live with that from the time you are fourteen, and it never stops. We live with that fear every day of our lives. Every man walking through the parking garage the same time you are is either just a harmless stranger or a potential rapist. Every time."
The girls in the room nodded, agreeing. The boys seemed genuinely shocked.
"So think about that the next time you hit on a girl. Maybe, like you in the taxi, she doesn't actually want you to."
You can't just assume that girls like your advances by virtue of them being "straightforward". That is naive and shows a lack of social understanding. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lauren Ceiwa wrote:
I'd read my past posts. I'm not lumping all guys in the same crowd, since I mean, I play with 99% guys and a lot of them aren't like that. His posting just started trending in the direction of the "pervy male gamer". I don't just randomly hit on men or women because I'm attracted to those genders, so why should I be subjected to the same treatment? Sure I can mute him, but why should I have to?
Also, there is no freedom of speech in video games, as denoted by the imminent locking of this thread :P
True. It was the "your kind" that you wrote that set off the alarm bell in my head.
Also, for the most part, this thread is relatively peaceable in comparison to the rest of GD. The GMs have already done a sweep and left this one in place, so I would imagine they can see the players are actually handling themselves according to the forum rules, and left it at that. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote:Ric Barlom wrote: So you're calling me a perv already? C'mon you know better than that and if we ever had a real conversation you'd probably like me too. Bet it's refreshing to talk to someone who's actually straight forward about stuff too instead of all these guys who pretend to be eunuchs.
That is incredibly presumptive, particularly egotistical, and will make most women like you less. Do you even know what the word eunuch means? No guy would ever pretend to be one unless he needed incredible urgent psychological care. Plenty of men are straightforward about stuff, including sexual attraction and preference, but plenty of men like yourself are also incredibly inappropriate about it. It is unnerving for women when a man they don't know anything about comes up to them and just randomly starts talking about sex in a "straightforward" manner as if they're all just great friends. Let me put things into perspective. I'll tell you a cool story. A teacher was discussing catcalling with a group of high-school freshmen in her English class. They were discussing homosexuality because of an allusion to it in the book they were reading, and several boys made comments such as, "That's disgusting." They got into the debate and eventually a boy admitted that he was terrified/disgusted when he was once sharing a taxi and the other male passenger made a pass at him. The lightbulb went off. "Oh," the teacher said. "I get it. See, you are afraid, because for the first time in your life you have found yourself a victim of unwanted sexual advances by someone who has the physical ability to use force against you." The boy nodded and shuddered visibly. "But," she continued. "As a woman, you learn to live with that from the time you are fourteen, and it never stops. We live with that fear every day of our lives. Every man walking through the parking garage the same time you are is either just a harmless stranger or a potential rapist. Every time." The girls in the room nodded, agreeing. The boys seemed genuinely shocked. "So think about that the next time you hit on a girl. Maybe, like you in the taxi, she doesn't actually want you to." You can't just assume that girls like your advances by virtue of them being "straightforward". That is naive and shows a lack of social understanding. Jesus Christ Jason! I absolutely do NOT approve harassment of any kind! I was talking about a joke, bro! A joke. If anyone finds my jokes offending I do apologise every time, but my jokes aren't generally offensive at all. What I mean with a joke is something where nobody finds it offensive or uncomfortable. And if you read my original post that got this whole thing started, I did in fact encourage the gaming community to treat women with more respect!
Tell an inappropriate joke to someone with a sense of humour you don't understand or someone you just don't know, and you might be making them feel uncomfortable. That could be construed as harassment. Assuming nobody finds what you say offensive is assuming you know them well enough to reach that conclusion. I read your original post. Try telling the women A-10 pilots in the US air force that their reflexes are worse than men and they'll show you the MiG kills they scored in Iraq, in A-10s, which are not interceptors. Your post was the dribbled nonsense of a misinformed 15 year old high on his own Dunning-Kruger effect.
Also, if you can't even get my name right, how am I supposed to believe you are capable of the comprehension required to warrant me wasting any more time attempting to explain this to you? |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote: Oh yeah, man, I do know them well enough. I'm a good people person, I know people. Trust me, bro. But here's the thing dude, and you don't need to get offensive about this whole deal, man, because I did indeed provide you with a study about human reaction times and while it might not be fool proof there are many others out there. I accept your way of communicating to people, no problem with that. My point is that women and men are different, I make jokes about gender roles and yeah, sometimes I cross that line but you can be sure that I do apologise each and every time. None of us is perfect and I've got my own flaws but I guarantee you that I don't mean any bad feelings for anyone.
I hear a lot of people claim to be good "people persons" that know exactly what other people want. I'm sorry, I don't know you well enough to trust you, so I'm not going to base your ability to get along with people on the merits of your word alone, considering that you're not really proving your ability to get along with too many people on these forums. You don't know them well enough, but you can certainly delude yourself into believing that.
I've seen many of these so-called studies coming out that show supposed biological links to masculine superiority to some degree or another. I've not seen a single one published in Nature, Science, The Lancet, or any other journal credible enough to distinguish it from the rest. Nor have I ever seen anything except small population studies or literature reviews. In fact, the most recent article published in Nature regarding brain size differentiation between men and women demonstrated no conclusive intelligence differentiation. In fact, there were so many cases where smaller brained people tested higher in intelligence than larger brained people, both men and women, that the article concluded that there is no link.
I've also seen studies published that purport a link between vaccination and autism, but any biological or medical scientist, virologist, or immunologist worth his credentials will tell you that's a load of crap. You have to check your sources, who is writing them, and what they're interests are before you just dish up articles as if they are the be-all and end-all of your position. Because if that article was all you have, then I'm afraid you have nothing. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 17:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote:Ric Barlom wrote: Oh yeah, man, I do know them well enough. I'm a good people person, I know people. Trust me, bro. But here's the thing dude, and you don't need to get offensive about this whole deal, man, because I did indeed provide you with a study about human reaction times and while it might not be fool proof there are many others out there. I accept your way of communicating to people, no problem with that. My point is that women and men are different, I make jokes about gender roles and yeah, sometimes I cross that line but you can be sure that I do apologise each and every time. None of us is perfect and I've got my own flaws but I guarantee you that I don't mean any bad feelings for anyone.
I hear a lot of people claim to be good "people persons" that know exactly what other people want. I'm sorry, I don't know you well enough to trust you, so I'm not going to base your ability to get along with people on the merits of your word alone, considering that you're not really proving your ability to get along with too many people on these forums. You don't know them well enough, but you can certainly delude yourself into believing that. I've seen many of these so-called studies coming out that show supposed biological links to masculine superiority to some degree or another. I've not seen a single one published in Nature, Science, The Lancet, or any other journal credible enough to distinguish it from the rest. Nor have I ever seen anything except small population studies or literature reviews. In fact, the most recent article published in Nature regarding brain size differentiation between men and women demonstrated no conclusive intelligence differentiation. In fact, there were so many cases where smaller brained people tested higher in intelligence than larger brained people, both men and women, that the article concluded that there is no link. I've also seen studies published that purport a link between vaccination and autism, but any biological or medical scientist, virologist, or immunologist worth his credentials will tell you that's a load of crap. You have to check your sources, who is writing them, and what they're interests are before you just dish up articles as if they are the be-all and end-all of your position. Because if that article was all you have, then I'm afraid you have nothing. Absolutely right man, and I've never tried to claim that men are somehow more intelligent than women whatsoever. What we do know is that men are superior to women physically and as I've mentioned in this thread already men outperform women even in games like darts, pool and curling where the obvious strength advantage doesn't play a role. Same thing can be said about highest levels of video games.
Somehow, I think you're in for a really rude shock one day. This chauvinism of yours is a delusion. First of all, leave the 'physical superiority' bit out for a moment. If you're exerting physical effort to play video games, then you're doing it wrong.
Next, read this. If you can beat one of those girls in a video game, any game of your choosing, then I might start taking you seriously. Until then, don't expect me to consider your belief in male superiority in gaming to be anything other than a delusion. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote: First of all, dude, no, I do not have to exert physical effort to play video games but reaction time is a physical trait and it just happens to be that men have faster reaction times than women among other things that affect playing video games. The second thing is, that if you did read my previous posts, I did proclaim that anyone in this world can be better than 99% at anything just by putting in the hours and hard work and I also admitted that many female players would totally annihilate me in Dust 514 or any other video games. That being said, man, I'm only an average gamer. When you take the best male gamer and you take the best female gamer, the male gamer will win.
Prove conclusively that men have faster reaction times. Go ahead. I did read it the first time you posted it. I dismissed it because you provided no evidence and no case for it. That female gamer, and her team, who happen to be on my Xbox Live friends list, beat the best male gamers out there every single day. And I've watched them do it. Hell, they crushed me and my Halo team repeatedly just three weeks ago. And I'm not average at Halo.
I also used to do a little drifting at a local racetrack in my spare time. Plenty of women there, all with incredibly sharp reflexes. Then there was the girl on DUST I fought alongside just two days ago. I've never seen anyone no-scope a headshot with a sniper rifle in DUST before. Maybe it was a fluke. But if she hadn't reacted as fast as she did, she wouldn't have fluked it at all.
So here's what I want you to do. I want you to go and find these cases of the best male gamer always winning against the best female gamer. I want you to find as many as you can, and link them here. When you're done, I'll pull up all Mystik's results and compare them. All the male gamers you can find vs just one woman. Go ahead. I'll wait right here.
The bottom line is, though, it doesn't matter if one sex is conclusively better than the other, all that matters is the ability of the individuals on your team to work together to achieve results. But if you are going to make claims, you had better be able to conclusively back them up, and that one 'journal' article you posted was just not conclusive. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Somin Krais wrote:OP says it's nice to see more female players. Naturally things progress into a gender war. So, who didn't see this as the inevitable outcome?
Anyway, my clones have been laid to rest by many. Probably a few of them were dropped by a Fem Fatale or two. Doesn't matter to me. If you're referring to me and my man Jason over here, man, I can guarantee you, bro, that I didn't intend to start a gender war. I just stated a few facts and encouraged the community to treat female gamers with some more respect, and all of a sudden I find my words being twisted and my person being offended by a few shining knights on a white steed, bro.
This is your problem. You think you're stating facts. This isn't a gender war at all, this is me pointing out that you clearly have no idea what the definition of a fact is. And when you talk about treating female gamers with respect and in the same breath talk about their sexy voices arousing you so much that you've just gotta 'flirt' with them a little it makes me question your understanding of the word respect, as well, and your own personal degree of self control. |
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Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote:Ric Barlom wrote: First of all, dude, no, I do not have to exert physical effort to play video games but reaction time is a physical trait and it just happens to be that men have faster reaction times than women among other things that affect playing video games. The second thing is, that if you did read my previous posts, I did proclaim that anyone in this world can be better than 99% at anything just by putting in the hours and hard work and I also admitted that many female players would totally annihilate me in Dust 514 or any other video games. That being said, man, I'm only an average gamer. When you take the best male gamer and you take the best female gamer, the male gamer will win.
Prove conclusively that men have faster reaction times. Go ahead. I did read it the first time you posted it. I dismissed it because you provided no evidence and no case for it. That female gamer, and her team, who happen to be on my Xbox Live friends list, beat the best male gamers out there every single day. And I've watched them do it. Hell, they crushed me and my Halo team repeatedly just three weeks ago. And I'm not average at Halo. I also used to do a little drifting at a local racetrack in my spare time. Plenty of women there, all with incredibly sharp reflexes. Then there was the girl on DUST I fought alongside just two days ago. I've never seen anyone no-scope a headshot with a sniper rifle in DUST before. Maybe it was a fluke. But if she hadn't reacted as fast as she did, she wouldn't have fluked it at all. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to go and find these cases of the best male gamer always winning against the best female gamer. I want you to find as many as you can, and link them here. When you're done, I'll pull up all Mystik's results and compare them. All the male gamers you can find vs just one woman. Go ahead. I'll wait right here. Let me take Starcraft II, the grandaddy of E-sports, as an example and if you've been following the SCII scene at all, then you know that of all the major tournaments, the winner has always been male. Nothing against female SCII players, just stating the fact.
How many women were in the tournaments? And then, how many of them were Korean? |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:Natu Nobilis wrote:Ric Barlom wrote: Oh yeah, man, I do know them well enough. I'm a good people person, I know people. Trust me, bro. But here's the thing dude, and you don't need to get offensive about this whole deal, man, because I did indeed provide you with a study about human reaction times and while it might not be fool proof there are many others out there. I accept your way of communicating to people, no problem with that. My point is that women and men are different, I make jokes about gender roles and yeah, sometimes I cross that line but you can be sure that I do apologise each and every time. None of us is perfect and I've got my own flaws but I guarantee you that I don't mean any bad feelings for anyone.
I do believe you-¦re trying to catch up with all the material provided, and it does take a long time to discontruct a lot of the things that were taught trough life, that-¦s an excelent start! Read some more and you-¦ll have plenty material to question a lot of "certainties" that most people have. It will make you grow as a person and a human being. Absolutely, man, and here's the thing, I'm always out there absorbing knowledge and questioning authorities, just like you are I presume. However sometimes it can get a little bit inconvenient as people find some factoids uncomfortable and when you think about you know, it makes perfect sense so let me tell all you feminists out there, that I think it's best that we agree to disagree. Because at the end of the day, I don't think anyone wants this whole thing to turn into another flame war.
I'll tell you a secret, Ric. Men do have faster reaction times than women. At a confidence level of 99.9%, men can react to sound within ~109ms, and women within ~121ms. Reacting to light, the difference is similar. This is an AT BEST scenario. This is scientifically tested, with proper science, not some half arse grad student's PhD thesis. The difference is 12ms. That's 12 milliseconds. Do you know what that means in terms of video games? It means we're on an equal playing field. 12ms is what I get for ping on my internet connection. Sometimes it's slower. Sometimes it's faster. To human perception, though, you can't tell the difference. Plus, there's the hesitation factor to consider. We all have the same fight-or-flight instinct that kicks in at the same speed as our reaction time.
In a videogame, like an FPS, a 12ms difference is indistinguishable. It's not even close to being something like lag for the 'slower' player. Plus, it's an at best figure, as I stated, which makes it a generalisation. What that means is, your best male players could still be slower than your best female players, so when you make blanket statements like "the men will always win" based on generalised at-best figures, you are leaving out a large array of variables that you need to prove that the guy gamer will always win.
This is why you are wrong. Science has tested reaction times, and proven that in general, men react faster than women. Science has not tested videogame ability, which would factor in reaction times, but not general results. For example, men are more easily distracted than women, who are able to both focus more attention on a single task, or multitask more effectively. That's why female fighter pilots are capable of tracking up to 6 or 7 other aircraft in a dogfight situation, while men are only capable of tracking up to 4 or 5 at the most. This degree of multitasking and situational awareness would translate well into video games, especially an FPS like DUST.
You're basing your conclusion on only one variable. It just doesn't work like that. There is no conclusive data that demonstrates that men are better at video games than women, or visa versa. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
I-Can't Feel My-Legs wrote:I read this entire thread...
I call BS. You skimmed it looking for the pictures.
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Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
47
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Posted - 2013.05.17 10:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
DropKickSuicide wrote:Makyre Vahliha wrote:Llan Heindell wrote:Oh it's this thread.
I laughed on the "cruel world dominated by men". New Eden is a cruel world. Independent on who is dominating it. Places where money gives the final word, are equally cruel to everyone.
The reason why women get turned out of EVE more than men is because New Eden is a salty place where tears are harvested each day and I'm 100% sure that even if you say that "gamer gurlz exist and they like to collect tears as much as men you sexist"... No. The numbers of tear collector men are still bigger.
Anyways. Nice to see more gurlz playing. :) My gf also likes FPS titles but she doesn't own a PS3, she plays CoD with her friends and such.
(For some reason, everytime I read this threads, I immediately think of "attention hunters". But I don't think that this is the case thou. It just feels like I guess).
Live long and prosper girls. Llan Heindell. You're rephrasing my words. Oh, yeah. I'm an attention-seeker, an ego-boosting guy that wants everyone to make me feel special. Go figure. Or an attention seeking Girl? I really dont see the point of this thread.
And yet, somehow, something drove you to post in it. |
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