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Bainlear Gorrilian
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2013.05.15 21:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Increasing the rate of charge per level is nice in theory, but in practice, it just means it overheats faster. Between keeping track of temperature, tracking the target, and the opaque sights, there is close to zero margin for error (whether human or technical).
I suggest 4-5% heat reduction and 2% charge up time reduction per level. This leaves enough wiggle room so that players can get used to it without losing so much money. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
217
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Posted - 2013.05.17 08:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bainlear Gorrilian wrote:Increasing the rate of charge per level is nice in theory, but in practice, it just means it overheats faster. Between keeping track of temperature, tracking the target, and the opaque sights, there is close to zero margin for error (whether human or technical).
I suggest 4-5% heat reduction and 2% charge up time reduction per level. This leaves enough wiggle room so that players can get used to it without losing so much money.
I'd be fine with just heat reduction really. The charge skill does nothing for the assault variants, and the scrambler rifle is the only weapon in the game to have a passive skill that does nothing for a variant. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
18
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Posted - 2013.05.25 06:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'd like two skill bonuses, but I'd be fine with just heat reduction as well. |
Arcturis Vanguard
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
13
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Posted - 2013.05.25 06:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reduction to heat build up would be a nice feature for the weapon as it can over heat rather quickly. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.05.25 07:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reduction to heat buildup is too much with the Amarr Assault skill. I suggest the Scrambler Rifle skill either:
1) Reduce overheating duration per level or 2) Reduce the damage taken by overheating per level
It makes the Amarr Assault suit the obvious choice to be using the Scrambler Rifle with still, applies to ALL Scrambler Rifles (since one model doesn't charge the bonus becomes useless), but still benefits people in Caldari suits etc. who want to use Scrambler Rifles, by reducing a penalty. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
365
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Posted - 2013.05.25 07:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Reduction to heat buildup is too much with the Amarr Assault skill. I suggest the Scrambler Rifle skill either:
1) Reduce overheating duration per level or 2) Reduce the damage taken by overheating per level
It makes the Amarr Assault suit the obvious choice to be using the Scrambler Rifle with still, applies to ALL Scrambler Rifles (since one model doesn't charge the bonus becomes useless), but still benefits people in Caldari suits etc. who want to use Scrambler Rifles, by reducing a penalty.
Overheating duration is already short, overheating damage at 25% reduction would be a 12-pt. dmg difference, which is beyond stupid.
The overheating-bonus would be better as the gun passive to begin with. The advantage Amarr assaults get is already comparatively small (about 2 shots), adding some percentage as a passive to someone who is a "PRO" level user would be appropriate. |
Nikea Nei
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.05.25 08:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yarr. Overheat build-up reduction would be the most balanced and sensible passive. If it's percentage-based (like with the Amarr Assault) we already know it won't be too much, because it hasn't been that big of a difference with the Amarr Assaults either. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.05.25 08:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Reduction to heat buildup is too much with the Amarr Assault skill. I suggest the Scrambler Rifle skill either:
1) Reduce overheating duration per level or 2) Reduce the damage taken by overheating per level
It makes the Amarr Assault suit the obvious choice to be using the Scrambler Rifle with still, applies to ALL Scrambler Rifles (since one model doesn't charge the bonus becomes useless), but still benefits people in Caldari suits etc. who want to use Scrambler Rifles, by reducing a penalty. Overheating duration is already short, overheating damage at 25% reduction would be a 12-pt. dmg difference, which is beyond stupid. The overheating-bonus would be better as the gun passive to begin with. The advantage Amarr assaults get is already comparatively small (about 2 shots), adding some percentage as a passive to someone who is a "PRO" level user would be appropriate. The advantage is only 2 shots if you spam the trigger with abandon. Properly managed the Scrambler Rifle is a really effective weapon, and in the Amarr suit it is easier to manage properly, and therefore has longer and more sustainable deadly properties. Trying to claim that the skill needs to reduce heat buildup so other people can effectively use it only does this:
1) Makes it so other suits get the same "small" advantage that the Amarr suits already have (if it's really too small as you claim, you shouldn't want it anyway) 2) Makes it so the Amarr suit with Scrambler Rifle begins to approach the point where the side effects are almost completely non-existent, especially under use by someone who knows how to manage the rifle.
Reducing overheating duration is about as "pointless" as increasing reload speed. You'd really be surprised at how much more damage you deal over time when you're not wasting it by NOT shooting. |
Jen Gelfling
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.25 08:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote: The advantage is only 2 shots if you spam the trigger with abandon. Properly managed the Scrambler Rifle is a really effective weapon, and in the Amarr suit it is easier to manage properly, and therefore has longer and more sustainable deadly properties. Trying to claim that the skill needs to reduce heat buildup so other people can effectively use it only does this:
1) Makes it so other suits get the same "small" advantage that the Amarr suits already have (if it's really too small as you claim, you shouldn't want it anyway) 2) Makes it so the Amarr suit with Scrambler Rifle begins to approach the point where the side effects are almost completely non-existent, especially under use by someone who knows how to manage the rifle.
Reducing overheating duration is about as "pointless" as increasing reload speed. You'd really be surprised at how much more damage you deal over time when you're not wasting it by NOT shooting.
You can say "properly managed" ANY weapon is effective, that's kinda implied when you say "properly managed". 2 shots is just a metric for noting that the heat reduction isn't suddenly allowing full-auto fire.
Besides, "You'd really be surprised at how much more damage you deal over time when you're not wasting it by NOT shooting." - that's the entire point of reducing the heat build-up, you can fire more often. Reducing "overheat" specifically is only benefiting people that "can't properly manage" a gun.
So, as you become more skilled with the weapon, your passive bonus becomes steadily more and more pointless - like training wheels on a motorcycle.
The heat build-up reduction is useful to users after they become better with the weapon as well, and is a better reflection of increasing skill with a weapon (as opposed to something that helps out people that are screwing up).
The point of citing the Amarr is to say that we already know it won't break the game. You don't want weapon balancing to overreach. You can modify the percentage difference to mitigate the possibility of #2 happening. Amarr Assaults shouldn't be the only route to improving heat build-up on the gun. If not altering the base passive (which benefits the assault variant in no way), then the gun probably needs an added skill for heat reduction (and dispersion, but that's a separate issue). |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
377
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Posted - 2013.05.26 06:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
I still support this.. |
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Kazeno Rannaa
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
172
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Posted - 2013.05.26 07:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Again. Everyone is so hell bent on giving the ASCR and SCR more reduction on heat build up which doesn't make sense. Laser heat up, especially pulse lasers as they have large energy discharges at repeatedly higher intervals than a regular beam laser. Reduction in heat build up for the laser rifle makes sense since it is a continuous stream. For a pulse laser, that skill will come from specializing into Amarr Assaults.
take a moment and read this thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=860472. You can begin to see the sense this guy is talking about.
I don't see how everyone has seemed to miss this response on this thread. Instead they have attempted to ignore the tech lore of EVE while attempting to promote their own agenda of "give me the ability to have double heat reduction on the SCR and ASCR."
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
391
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Posted - 2013.05.27 13:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Again. Everyone is so hell bent on giving the ASCR and SCR more reduction on heat build up which doesn't make sense. Laser heat up, especially pulse lasers as they have large energy discharges at repeatedly higher intervals than a regular beam laser. Reduction in heat build up for the laser rifle makes sense since it is a continuous stream. For a pulse laser, that skill will come from specializing into Amarr Assaults. take a moment and read this thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=860472. You can begin to see the sense this guy is talking about. I don't see how everyone has seemed to miss this response on this thread. Instead they have attempted to ignore the tech lore of EVE while attempting to promote their own agenda of "give me the ability to have double heat reduction on the SCR and ASCR."
That thread doesn't exist. Who is ignoring tech lore? Let me help you out.
Lasers would have problems removing heat in space because the only way to remove heat in space is by radiation. Within an atmosphere, cooling by conduction and convection is possible. Convection is much much more efficient at heat removal than radiation. Amarr are said to have great cooling tech for their lasers. If anything, Amarr cooling technology should prove superior within an atmosphere. The scrambler pistol doesn't overheat at all (also pulse laser tech).
The important EVE lore elements of Pulse Lasers are the fact they outrange Blasters by 4 to 1, and they have thermal/EM damage primarily. Right now, Pulse Lasers have less range than Blasters in many cases - so, they're already ignoring lore.
From a balance perspective, keeping heat reduction to a specific racial variant-role suit is extremely limiting for that bonus. The current charge bonus does literally nothing for the assault variant. So, another passive IS required. Heat build-up reduction is a sensible alternative. It's certainly more useful, and seems like a fair use of 600k SP. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4024
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Posted - 2013.05.27 13:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Heat reduction skill would be nice and all, but almost just useless as the current skill bonus for the assault scrambler rifle since it rarely ever overheats. I would suggest a range bonus (optimal range included). |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
394
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Posted - 2013.05.27 14:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Heat reduction skill would be nice and all, but almost just useless as the current skill bonus for the assault scrambler rifle since it rarely ever overheats. I would suggest a range bonus (optimal range included).
I think a range bonus would be too much, and the base range should just be higher to begin with... but I think we've already had this exchange.
I have varied feelings on the ASCR. I stand by the heat-reduction passive, but I also think the heat build on it should be higher, with its accuracy and fire-rate adjusted to balance. The accuracy/dispersion element could also be addressed with a sharpshooter skill I suppose, in which case I'd default to an adjustment of range and fire-rate (along with raising the base heat-build-up). Basically, I look at it as an analogue to the AR (with respect to full-auto fire) that would require heat management, but confers advantages over the AR as a trade-off. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
567
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Posted - 2013.05.27 15:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
I am all 5's in Amarr assault and ScR.
I'm against the weapon having a native skill to reduce heat build up. Coupled with the Amarr bonus the ScR would be able to fire like a TAR. It would be OP. It also makes suit specialization arbitrary.
I really like the current reduction to spool-up time on the charge shot. If you are regularly using charged, or partially charged shots this is a must. Please don't gimp this functionality.
According to lore, pulse lasers should have better range than ARs in their current form. While I am not against a very slight buff to the range (5m) I think it makes more sense to give the charged shot better range and leave the normal firing mode untouched. Buff the charged shot by 15m max. Give it too much range and were into TAR territory again.
Increasing fire rate would be useless in my opinion. This isn't a spray n pray weapon. If you're using it like that use the assault scrambler, or better an AR. |
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