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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
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Posted - 2013.05.15 12:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:XXfootnoteXX wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Yeah, I mean it, it's awful but.. this time it's not CCP's fault. Disagree. I think it is CCP's fault for releasing it too soon. There is absolutly ZERO benifit to Dust Merc's playing FW over an instant battle. And it seems Loyalty Points wont be introdused to Dust either, making FW even more pointless. Because LP is the ONLY way to make FW battles more rewarding... Honestly, what does LP offer that we can't do in a better way? LP means ANOTHER currency to track A separate or more complicated market More items to balance while we still attempt to find the right balance for what we have We are developing another game in the same universe. We don't have to copy everything from EVE and paste it into DUST. We can do things differently. Something work great for EVE and the game it is, but DUST while in the same universe is a different game. That is not to say LP is bad for EVE. They have a scheme for how items work should balance out and they can fit the faction items into it. As I have said elsewhere we are looking at ways to increase the rewards in FW battles. If there is another reason you would like LP other than for increasing the reward/value of FW matches I am all ears.
LP is being used as an isk sink in Eve right now no? It is designed to bring in new things to the economy that multiple groups within the economy have interest in paying for. The LP system is built on the foundation that players can trade with each other and things will make their way to the markets where they are the most valuable. Because we can't trade atm a lot of those links wont work.
...but the basis of having some sort of valuable sinks to work with that 'feel like' investment is vitally important... It is important for those who cannot or do not want to participate in high-stakes PC...but is also important in creating alternative 'stuff' faucets that players will search after...eventually leading to more efficient relationships between players which should be +profit.
I think allowing players to sync into FW will be a core aspect of making roles more efficient and more profitable. When you play solo or in smaller squads players will tend to build fits that are swiss army knife. When in a squad or whole team, you can choose to be a cleaver, katana, or drill.
So now I've suggested 2 things that FW is doing...transitioning people into better squad play and creating new markets. The first is much easier until you can link markets together easier (p2p trading).
Squad Play:
What if rewards for FW pushed people even more into this...FW could give 'leadership points'. These leadership point then could unlock things that could change the meta of a battle, but spent and then not gotten back. It would be meaningless now if they were transferrable since we don't have p2p trading.
Leadership points could be accumulated for squad actions based on commands and pts that come from acting on those commands they could be awarded only to the squad lead, or maybe to everyone...don't know. It'd probably be best to put a cap on what can be earned in a match though. There could maybe be skillbooks that affect how these are gained or what allows them to be gained.
Finally they would/could be spent in different ways. One way I was thinking is that you'd have to 'leverage' these points during a FW match. If you won you'd keep what's left over. If you lost, you lose them. But not only are they 'leveraged' but they can then be spent before and then during a match (kind of like wp for orbitals).
...more... |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 12:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
to be continued... |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 13:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cpt Murd0ck wrote:
The effect dust has on FW in eve is that it makes it either slower or faster to capture systems through plexing (see below).
E.g the Ammar Dust militia win several battles in Minmatar territory. This adds a percentage modifier to the effect that completing a plex has on the overall contested state of the system.
Plexing:
In eve each FW system will spawn new plexes every half hour. they are either small, med or large. Remaining in one of these plexes for the set amount of time with no enemies around will capture th plex. Th system will then move to either a more contested or stable state depending on whether u are attacking or defending. Once the system is fully contested it can be won by destroying a large structure called a hub(not easy).
For more info Google it there are more detailed guides online.
I know this... But there is even a bigger effect on Eve that LP has. CCP's economist mentions on that youtube video I linked, that LP is really helpful in making an isk sink because rich players from across the galaxy want what only the FW players can get. They will pay high amounts of isk to get these unique items. Then also, to get these things FW players must sink isk into LP stores. Most of the time when things are traded, isk is being traded for stuff so that the amount of isk in the system doesn't change, but the value of each thing to the other player is increased. If you turn 'leadership points' into a valued commodity that can only be earned in FW, but helps translate uncertain conflict, into decisive victory, they will be helpful in both increasing destruction of assets in game (more sinks) but also creating a transferrably valuable thing (a squad leader or members that is highly sought after with a bank of LP). If your team does not have these squad leaders that have been tried and tested in FW then they will not have the same edge.
I'm proposing the same kind of economic/strategic relationship building effects that LP has for Eve, but without the downside of the development constraints that new equipment/weapons/vehicles has for Dust. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 13:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Going further with my command points (CP) in FW idea...
You could use this mechanic to flesh out the secondary role of commander/squad leader in Dust 514. The role would have its own 'leadership' category of skills that corporation skills could also fall under.
There were be a few tiers of skills with some specialization branches.
Intro skills:
Leadership (x1):+5% war points and command points from squad command actions per level.
Drill (x4): +1% SP reward for squad, per squad member, per level. (+30% with 6 squad members at Drill V)
Command (x3): (requires leadership V): +5% command points from squad actions.
Field Command (x4) (requires command V): Unlocks new command options at each level. Each level increases officer rank. LT, CPT, MAJ, LTC, COL.
Branch A: Tacitcal Command (in game command options)
Tactical Command (x3) (requires Field Command I): -5% command point cost of 'commands' per level.
Advanced tactical command (x4) (requires tactical command III): New tactical commands unlocked at each level.
Tactical Command Proficiency (x5) (requires tactical command V): -5% reduced cost of tactical commands per level.
Branch B: Strategic Command (pre-game command options)
Strategic Command (x3) (requires Field Command II): -5% command point cost of 'commands' per level.
Advanced strategic command (x4) (requires tactical command III): New strategic commands unlocked at each level.
Strategic Command Proficiency (x5) (requires tactical command V): -5% reduced cost of strategic commands per level.
Branch C: Administrative Command
Organizational leadership (x2) (requires leadership V): +50 pts per max command point pool amount per squad member per level (only for squad leader). Initial is 500 points + 50*5 (levels)*6 (members) = 2000 pts total pool for members.
Institutional leadership (x4) (requires organizational leadership II) : +1 skill point for each remaining CP at the end of a match. (2000 pts*5 SP/pt= 10,000 SP per member).
Accountability (x2) (requires organizational leadership III): +2.5% insurance on base cost of items lost for squad members during battle (up to max of 12.5% isk returned). |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 13:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cpt Murd0ck wrote:[quote=Beren Hurin] And EVE has a massive problem with the trillions that all the players have saved up they NEED sinks. I dont think the same can be said for dust. Most players dont keep a alot of cash in the bank and all the ISK we got back from the respec will soon diminish. I'm not completly against LP but its just another layer of complexity than may not be needed. If we have a player driven market in the future I can just sell all the Minmatar stuff I have to other players the same as I do with all the things I buy from the LP store in eve or donate it to the war effort of course 
I'm actually not really proposing an isk sink here, but more like a time sink. Players can earn command points that can be spent in another 'more valuable' game. You make it so they are hardest to earn in the least competitive environment (instant battles) and maybe even associate them with system sec level. But then since they are being stored up, with lots of optional uses but not on new tradeable items you would actually be making the mercenaries themselves the valuable commodity.
Also if you look above at my administrative tier, there could be players who specifically could skill into things that help them to 'train' other players by increasing the SP that they could earn, basically helping new players get up to competitive abilities more quickly. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 14:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote:Quote:There is absolutly ZERO benifit to Dust Merc's playing FW over an instant battle Give players a reason to play it over Instant battle. As for the LP point system, I can't believe you guys have completely shut yourself off to the whole concept of it. People trying to earn LP for their faction is Incentive to play FW. Instead of adding items, why don't you add a ranked/ experience system for those who commit to a fraction. On top of that you can even brag that your game has a persistent ranking system. ^I will be expanding this part in the near future. Just give people incentive and they will play it.
I really think that being able to squad together and know your whole teams strengths and weaknesses should be an efficiency gain above and beyond that you could get in instant battles. |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
Reverberation Project
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:If there is another reason you would like LP other than for increasing the reward/value of FW matches I am all ears. Regardless of loyalty points or not... you need to increase the rewards for both FW and skirmish games in general. As it stands, why would I waste my time (and potentially die more often, losing more suits) for the same ~200k payout I get in ambush? You need to double the ISK/Salvage rewards in Skirmish and triple them in FW battles (seriously, 5m in the MCC wtf!?). Otherwise they both a complete waste of time and the majority of us will continue to play ambush.
Really you are negating your question from the start. Why would anyone play instant battles when they could get this doubled reward from FW battles? Watch this which is about how complicated this whole economic thing is.
With my proposal I really think there is something significant to indirect, non-material, and non-p2p-transferrable advantages. With command points and the commands that they give, you are bringing a new commodity into the system that cannot be bought on the market; 'command enabled merc'. You really would be generated 'stored services' in FW that can be used at a later date.
Lets say a good squad leader needed ~2 million SP in command points, and he and his squad mates each need 15 - 20 FW games worth of command points to get a 'full deck' of options available for a decisive impact for their next PC match.
My intention is that, even more than isk, command points would mainly be best earned through intentional and strategic squad play in faction warfare, at a low enough rate that command point rich mercs are hard to find. It would also mean that you would want to have a rotating supply of commanders for your PC matches, because a FW veteran with enough command points would be more valuable than a PC veteran who is constantly defending.
It could even mean that a fresh squad of vets from FW with no territory could have a leg up on burnt out corps who do not have the base to sustain command point income. |
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