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Rowley Pup
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.05.14 02:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Can we quit tracking this stat? PLEASE, consider replacing KDR with War Points per minute (WPPM or WP/M or simply WPM).
KDR is an obtuse statistic, which is easily manipulated by players who chase the stat (just look at the leaderboards, who are they kidding?). By it's very nature, the stat leads players to chase kills and avoid deaths. Those medics who throw themselves at the Heavy who just died, or the player who fights thru the enemy to stop a hack in progress are far more valuable to the team effort, when compared to the sniper on a hill with 25-0. Now, don't get me wrong, kills are a very important aspect of the game, and should be rewarded. But tracking a misleading stat like KDR, which makes players act against their own team's effort, in order to protect that stupid ratio, is a terribly misguided act on CCP's part.
Putting a player's lifetime WP's and a War Points per minute stat front and center, will still give the players who can rack up a lot of kills the credit they deserve, while not diluting the less kill centric roles. It just seems counter to the nature of the game, and I believe it would help the community to drop this stat. I've hated it from the first day I saw it in a game, and I've seen it's inclusion promote nothing but poor gameplay, epeen insults, and derision towards less kill centric players. Simply put, I've seen whole groups of players quit fighting, if the battle is turning against them, and I can only imagine they behave in this way because they are too worried about damaging that stupid stat (as they can just switch to a Starter Kit and hold the line, if they are worried about losing their paid equipment).
Ultimately, I realize that those players who are kill obsessed will never change, but in refusing to track this statistic, and by pushing a more inclusive stat to the front, CCP can quietly declare to it's players, that all roles are respected and encouraged. It would also help to embolden those who are willing to try something beyond simple killing to do so, without risking their ego (however misguided that is). |
Rowley Pup
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2013.05.14 03:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:i agree, but there is no such thing as a FPS without K-D ratio statistics.
Of course a player that is always on the front-line will have a worst K- ratio than a Tanker or a sniper, but thats just the way it is.
KDR is actually a relatively new addition the the FPS genre. As recently as Halo 3, KDR wasn't tracked, even on Bungie's site. MAG didn't track KDR in the early days of the game, the CoD kids pushed for it, and Zipper eventually added it (to the detriment of the game I might add). So it isn't too far fetched for me to imagine a game without it. We just need to teach the new DUST players that KDR doesn't have to be the end all be all stat, when defining a player's skill.  |
Rowley Pup
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2013.05.14 03:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sete Clifton wrote:...but it is still a good measurement of one's basic killing and survival skills
Tell me please, how is KDR a good measurement in any way? It is an obtuse stat which merely declares that the player has, over time, managed to get more kills than deaths. It is absurdly easy to manipulate, and it also drives many players to cheat/hack/boost when possible. War Points Per Minute would be the most declarative stat when looking for an accurate summation of a player's skill at the game. Simply state your favored role and WPPM; anyone with half a brain would be able to quickly judge your skill, at your chosen role(s). |
Rowley Pup
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2013.05.14 04:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sete Clifton wrote:.....Anyway, I think I've detailed pretty well over the course of this thread why removing KDR (which is the topic if the thread) is not a good idea. I don't really feel like retyping everything, so if you haven't already I'd suggest reading all my posts in this thread. Just because it isn't important to you doesn't mean it has no value as a statistic.
Let me be clear about one thing though. There is no single stat which can fully describe how good of a player someone is. Everything is about context. There are many situations in which KDR is meaningless, but it does tell you something about a player. It tells you how good some is a beating the other team in a direct firefight, why is it a good idea to remove that?
Actually, you didn't answer my question, as asked, in the course of the thread, which is why I asked it. Regardless, yes you could AFK farm WP, but that is why I suggested replacing KDR with War Points Per Minute (or Score Per Minute for BF3/CoD players). If you farmed WP while AFK, your WPPM would be abysmal, and you would be outed as an AFK WP farmer. High KDR is far easier to fake than WPPM. And besides, when different tasks are weighted correctly, WPPM is will reflect your skill at killing, far more than KDR would, it just doesnt have the word "kill" in it.
As to your other point, KDR does NOT say anything about how well a player is at beating another in a direct firefight. It simply states a number which is reflected, in a ratio, by the total number of kills and total deaths a player has. If it were true, that KDR shows how good someone is in a direct firefight, then I suppose we should have CCP place an asterix next to all of the snipers/tankers/campers who regularly post double digit kills, with a minimum of deaths. |
Rowley Pup
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2013.05.14 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
alten hilt wrote:...Corporations idealy want a Merc who kills more than he dies, destroys more enemy gear than he loses, accomplishes a lot of objectives between deaths and does so rapidly, and consistently is a top contributer to mission objectives. Only governments don't care about efficiency.
Ultimately, you are correct, but there are systems in the game already which will encourage safe and intelligent gameplay. The cost to replace loadouts, the clone reserve limits, etc. Removing KDR does not, in any way, put forth a statement that it is okay to just mass suicide... Removing the stat will simply remove the encouragement toward bad gameplay habits KDR chasing creates. Regardless, as I've said multiple times in this thread, KDR does not, reflect a players skill at all. It is simply a stat which shows the total number of deaths as related to the total number of kills a player has amassed over their "career". It says nothing about skill, is easily manipulated, encourages passive gameplay, rewards those who give up, punishes those who push on in the face of a difficult battle, etc, etc ,etc.
Today, release day, I loaded up a battle of Domination; entered a battle already under way. A full HALF of my team was hiding in the MCC, while the reset were camping around a bunker, not too far from the MCC. No one was willing to call in vehicles, and no one was willing to push forward. I can't imagine what in the world would cause players to play so passively, other than protecting their KDR. It is toxic to the game, and all FPS games, but particularly so for DUST.
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