DUST Search - [Feedback] A closer look at the Gallente Scout, please fix this!

Ten-Sidhe wrote:

base is 10m

suit bonus 10*1.5=15m
Scanner range skill 15*1.5=22.5
Complex range mod #1 22.5*1.45=32.625
Complex range mod #2 32.625*1.45=47.30625
Complex range mod #3 47.30625*1.45=68.5940625
Complex range mod #4 68.5940625*1.45=99.461390625

Current max passive scan range 99.5m
an 894.61390625% increase over the base range

The Minmatar scout bonus is equal to an enhanced melee biotic(mylofiber or something like that), complex gives +50% melee.
The Gallente scout bonus is equal to a enhanced sensor range boost mod.

All scan radius were reduced to 10m this build, old build scout had 25m and others 15m. I see the need for the cut in range, but why not proprtional?

Scout suit scan 16.666.. would be in old build proportion compared to other suits.

This would make max gallente scout scan 165.768984375m at 32.4 precision with max skills and all slots filled with scan boosts. It doesn't seem unreasonable for a maxed out one trick suit with maxed skills to be a better then adv single slot gear and better in some ways then the proto scanner. Suit built like this would help team, but have to hide and avoid enemy whole time getting no wp.


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Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 242	Posted - 2013.05.13 15:51:00 - [1] - Quote The Gallente Scout has a few oddities when compared to it's Minmatar Scout cousin and I would like to point these out and offer suggestions. 1) The racial bonuses. Right now Minmatar Scout gets a 5% bonus to nova knife damage per level. At Level 5, that is a 25% increase. A complex sidearm modifier would increase the nova knife damage by 10%. So basically having a prototype Minmatar scout is like having 2 and a half complex sidearm modifiers on at all times. Meanwhile, the Gallente Scout gets 10% scanning range per level. At Level 5 that's 50%. A complex range amplifier increases range by 45%. So this is like having a little over one complex range amplifier on at all times. You see what's not right here? So instead of nerfing the Minmatar because nerfing sucks, why don't you buff the Gallente bonus. Make is 20% or 25% increase per level, that would make it more on par with the Minmatar bonus. 2) Have the devs actually looked at how far a Gallente scout can scan with everything maxed out? Here is a chart of the radar for reference, http://s23.postimg.org/vzroe12fv/minimap_ranges.jpg So a Gallente Scout can scan with a radius of 10 meters. This is half of the inner circle, nearly useless but understandable since it is unspecialized. Add the 50% from Scout Level 5 and you are still only at 15 meters scanning. Check the radar, this is still pitiful. But ok, let's max out and get 50% from Range Amplifer Level 5 and 45% from a complex range amplifier times 4 since you get 4 low slots. You are now at 280% increase to the 10 meter scan radius, which is 38 meters. You now can scan up to the first tick which is decent range, but that is doing absolutely everything you can to max out the range, plus it takes up over half of your CPU and leaves you with only 1 high slot for customization. Come on, if you were to invest that much into expanding your scanning range it should be greater. 3) It's clear you have the Gallente Scout set up to be more of the electronic warfare guy while the Minmatar Scout is more of the speedy assassin. So why do they share so many attributes? Gallente scouts should get a larger base scan radius, and Minmatar in turn should get a higher base melee damage or something.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 244	Posted - 2013.05.13 17:00:00 - [2] - Quote KURO SHISHI wrote: yes but gallente scout have more pv. me i dont understand why scout proto basic suit are so expensive it's a shame more expensive than all other type I'm sorry, but what do you mean by pv? And ideally all proto suits should cost the same since they should all provide an equal amount of support for the team, even if they are low health and damage. Giving the Gallente Scout a scan radius that is actually meaningful would be a step into this direction. The Minmatar Scout can already get to a point where he is doing 1200 damage with Nova Knives.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 244	Posted - 2013.05.13 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote In case you were concerned about it breaking the role of the active scanner, I'll leave this here Bones McGavins wrote: The only issue with buffing the gallante scout's range increase is that you really cant make the gallante scout's passive scanning anywhere near as powerful as an active scanner. Otherwise you break the role of the latter. It sucks, I started speccing down gallante and now realize how terrible of an idea that was. And what would be wrong if the one of the scout suits could do the role of an active scanner without the active scanner? It's not like all of them would, it would only be the one dedicated towards electronic warfare. Also the best active scanner scans with a precision of 15dB. The Gallente Scout has a scan precision of 45dB and only gets one high slot for a potential precision enhancer, you aren't getting close to the effectiveness of an active scanner. Plus if you did that you are now all out of mod slots so no shield or armor boost for you, and you have no CPU room for anything other than standard grade weapons and equipment. The active scanner would still have a useful purpose, not only among logis but even among Gallente Scout if they chose not to dedicate all their slots to get something sorta similar.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 248	Posted - 2013.05.13 18:12:00 - [4] - Quote More good points that I haven't thought of, thank you Driftward!
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 253	Posted - 2013.05.13 18:55:00 - [5] - Quote I like what you're saying, but to correct you on your math the 280% is an increase, meaning you have to take into consideration the 100% that is already there. 280% increase is 380% of the base value. So if base value was 30 meters, that could get buffed to 114 meters. If base value was 40 then that would get buffed to 152 meters. I still don't think that is particularly game breaking though as that would be a scout that is dedicating everything he has to improve his range and it would limit him to standard grade weapons and equipment, and it would still only be with 45dB of precision which anyone can easily get under if they wanted.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 254	Posted - 2013.05.13 19:10:00 - [6] - Quote Thing is with only one equipment slot now it's hard to argue for the active scanner. That seems more like a toy for the logi. All I ever run in my equipment slot is drop uplinks so I can get teammates into bases once I've infiltrated them. A bonus to range amplifier effectiveness like the Caldari logi's shield extender effectiveness is a good idea, but if that was the only thing they did it would have to be really substantial. Right now maxing out scan radius you still get something that is only mildly useful.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 256	Posted - 2013.05.13 20:31:00 - [7] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: base is 10m suit bonus 101.5=15m Scanner range skill 151.5=22.5 Complex range mod #1 22.51.45=32.625 Complex range mod #2 32.6251.45=47.30625 Complex range mod #3 47.306251.45=68.5940625 Complex range mod #4 68.59406251.45=99.461390625 Current max passive scan range 99.5m an 894.61390625% increase over the base range The Minmatar scout bonus is equal to an enhanced melee biotic(mylofiber or something like that), complex gives +50% melee. The Gallente scout bonus is equal to a enhanced sensor range boost mod. All scan radius were reduced to 10m this build, old build scout had 25m and others 15m. I see the need for the cut in range, but why not proprtional? Scout suit scan 16.666.. would be in old build proportion compared to other suits. This would make max gallente scout scan 165.768984375m at 32.4 precision with max skills and all slots filled with scan boosts. It doesn't seem unreasonable for a maxed out one trick suit with maxed skills to be a better then adv single slot gear and better in some ways then the proto scanner. Suit built like this would help team, but have to hide and avoid enemy whole time getting no wp. Are you sure that's how the percent bonuses work? Only reason I question that is because it would then matter the order in which you applied each percentage increase. It makes more sense that they would work simply by adding the percentages then doing one massive percent increase. Though if you're way is indeed how it works that is great news, but 100 meters is still not as high as it should be. Can a dev give us a confirmation on how the percentages actually work?
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 271	Posted - 2013.05.15 11:52:00 - [8] - Quote Assault and Logis are nowhere close to getting good range if the scout designed for range can't even.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 288	Posted - 2013.05.18 07:10:00 - [9] - Quote Going to bump this for good measure because it's still an issue and there has been no word if anythings even being looked at.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 290	Posted - 2013.05.18 07:30:00 - [10] - Quote New thoughts, it all depends on how percentages are added and whether or not there is a stacking penalty to range amplifiers. There's two ways I see it. 50% from scout suit 50% from range amplifiers level 5 45% from complex range amplifier x4 That is a total of 280% increase, which with a base value of 10m makes your max scanning range 38m. This is quite pathetic for a maxed out range scanner scout. Or 50% from scout suit 50% increase to new value from range amplifier level 5 45% increase to new value from complex range amplifier x4 So thats 10 x 1.5 x 1.5 x (1.45)^4 = 99.5 meters. This is pretty darn useful. You factor out that 1.5 from the scout and your range is now only 66.3 meters. Not nearly the same effect. If it's the first one then it definitely needs a major buff to at least 25 meters. If it is the second one it still needs a buff to at least 15 meters. No reason the scout - especially the Gallente scout - should have the same base range. And if you move it to 15 and it follows the second case then you got 149 meter range which is according to the follow graphic your entire radar http://s23.postimg.org/vzroe12fv/minimap_ranges.jpg Honestly that's where it makes sense for it to be, considering you are going in the suit designed for long range scanning, you are maxing everything out and putting all your slots as complex range amplifiers, and sacrificing decent weaponry and protection to do so. Furthermore, keep in mind the scouts precision is still 45dB. It is not hard to get below this with any class, and the Active Scanner has a much higher precision. So even with this maximum potential passive scanning there would still be an important role for active scanners for Gallente scouts and especially all other suit types like logistics and whatnot.

Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 296	Posted - 2013.05.18 07:35:00 - [11] - Quote So does it have a stacking penalty? If so, what is it? Seems like it shouldn't really need a stacking penalty.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 296	Posted - 2013.05.18 18:43:00 - [12] - Quote Edited the OP. The modules are compounded, not added, and there is no stacking penalty for amplifiers. Gallente Scout still needs a base range increase from 10 to 15 meters.