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Pre-launch feedback from an FPS veteran: past, present and future

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Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:52:00 - [1] - Quote I joined the closed beta in August. I played anti-vehicle for a while, but then moved to Shotgun Scout in Chromosome which I've stayed as in Uprising. I have 20 years experience with FPSs, from Wolfenstein 3D to True Combat: Elite to BF3, and everything in between. I've played EVE, but am not an active player anymore. This is a collection of feedback on Past, Present and Future of Dust. This is meant for both the devs and the community. It is long. and hard. TLDR: grok smash puny human PAST I went back to my original feedback from 5 August to see what has been changed and improved. General feedback I had at the time: I characterized FPS mechanics as "decent." They have improved quite a bit since then. Gunplay is more rewarding, ranges are shorter which makes for more dynamic and exciting confrontations, and overall gameplay is smoother (with caveats below) Game pace was good, and still is: it's not too slow or too fast. Dust is not as fast-paced as some twitch shooters which is great, but it's also not as slow as some of the more tactical shooters. CCP has successfully found a middle ground, which fits perfectly with PC and FW. Friendly Fire is coming in PC, and hopefully in other game modes, at least in null sec. There's too much spray-and-pray, which FF will fix. Graphics were "decent," which in retrospect was a generous statement. They are ok to good now. Can't wait to see what CCP will do with PS4! Sound was "ok," and they have improved somewhat. Directional (surround) cues are bit lacking or underpowered, and explosions and weapon sounds don't have the same oomph as some other games do, though. Loved the music back then, and still love it. It grounds the game firmly in the EVE universe. In-game voice announcements are pretty much the same, but would require some improvements. For example, at the moment capping announcements don't tell which side was successful/unsuccessful and at which capping point, which would be a welcome addition (eg "attacker failed to capture Bravo"). Haven't played sniper in a while, but I haven't seen quickscoping, so maybe that was fixed Bunnyhopping is still in the game. I haven't seen it as a problem due to the rather big hit on stamina. Bugs and Issues I reported: Spawn camping is largely fixed in Uprising, although coming weeks will confirm whether the worst aspects are gone while being balanced Hit boxes still need work; could be partly due to framerate/lag issues mentioned below Lag spikes, rubberbanding and/or framerate drops were gone in Chromosome, but are back in Uprising, more on that below Aim assist still needs work as reported by many others There is still a lot to be done with balancing AV and tanks. I would love to be a tank driver or AV build, but can't bring myself to spend millions of SP due to the various concerns people on forums have raised. LAV driving and physics have improved tremendously, now they actually feel like torque beasts which is great. A bit too much vehicle kills to my liking, let's see if that becomes an epidemic Suggestions I posted have been incorporated or are moot. The two most prominent ones have been partly implemented: I suggested KDR must go, but it is still prominently reported. KDR doesn't have much place in an objectives-based game. Thankfully end-game rankings are based on WP. I've suggested WP/hour elsewhere, or WP/death. Preferably we'll have ISK spent and destroyed/incapacitated to truly get a meaningful mercenary metric in the future. There is now the ability to spend time checking out your stats after a game. But there's still no ability to chat after a game with both sides, to exhange experiences, say "gg" or to smack talk. This is a huge part in building a true community, and would be even more important for corp matches, PC and FW.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:52:00 - [2] - Quote PRESENT Uprising was a huge step forward for the game. Much of the QQ was just that, and should and was ignored - such as getting rid of Sharpshooter which stretched weapon ranges farther than designed. Some of it was legitimate, and was address - eg. HMG damage. CCP handled this well and in a timely manner. Role distinction is still something I'm not entirely sure we are in the right place and on the right path. I play Scouts, and having only one equipment slot and the high/low configuration of Gallente and Minnie suits is quite limiting for a scout, forcing us into one-trick suits with little utility in PC. Logis seem to be masters of every role in this build, and AR is the go-to weapon - whether Logis and AR are OP is not something I have a say on, as I would be breaking my own Ten Commandments of Buff and Nerf Requests. But those topics are worth the on-going discussions among the community. What CCP has not managed well is the AUR and Mercenary pack refunds at launch. I have proposed a compromise solution to the Merc Pack debacle, which does not address the fact that CCP has reneged on a promise to refund AUR at launch. This is a contentious subject, so please add your input on the linked thread, not here, and keep it civil. We're still waiting for CCP to fix this and show that they have made a good-faith effort to address our concerns - the non-option of a full char reset when no one else gets one is frankly insulting -, but time is running short. Until this is fixed, me and many others will not be spending any more AUR on the game. Voicecomms are now free, which is a welcome step. They also seem to work pretty well, which is not the case for games which have much more money put into them. Good job. Ability to invite players to squad is now more straightforward, another good change. Game launch is much faster, which used to be one of my pet peeves. Kill screen I guess is great for CoD kids, I just skip it. The spawn screen is better, but still needs improvement on clarity and to make spawning or asking for a revive faster and more straightforward. There are two rather huge issues with the game itself at this moment. First is gamebreaking lag experienced by some, especially in close quarters combat. This could be framerate drop, or proper lag. Please report your findings here so CCP can get to the bottom of this ASAP. Another one is getting stuck on terrain, corners and other environmental hazards. Some of it can be fixed with map design so that places which look like can be traversed can be in fact moved through. But much of these issues are just getting stuck for no reason. Finally, AFK farming is still not fixed after months of complaints, which I find hard to fathom. The farmers are openly advocating it and even setting up "events," yet devs haven't taken any visible steps to addressing it. CCP must fix this soon-soon.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:53:00 - [3] - Quote FUTURE Matchmaking will make or break the game. As an F2P game, Dust needs a steady influx of newbies, to attract and retain players, and to convert enough of those players to paying customers. Matchmaking is critical: if we see rampant pubstomping in the early weeks of the game, reviews will justifiably rip the game apart. SP imbalance due to CCP's decision to not have a full character reset at launch - unprecedented and wildly myopic decision - makes this even worse. Once we get the concurrent population up we'll know if the current implementation works. More on newbie MM here. Newbies will require much more support. CCP should build a proper tutorial system, and get rid of the walls of text that stop new players in their tracks. Note this doesn't mean we should treat them with kid gloves: newbies should be warned about the ruthlessness of the universe. I urge the community to start adopting newbies to teach them the ropes. PC and FW are the end-game for Dust, and the reason many of us stay here. EVE/Dust connection must be robust, smooth and unobtrusive, while serving the game goals of both games. We have just vague idea of how it will turn out in the coming months or years, but the first steps towards PC are encouraging. It will require a lot of work from CCP and us to get it right. The promise is a game more engaging than anything we have ever played, deeper than any shooter, while still being accessible for those who aren't interested in EVE politics. It's a really tall order, but EVE has shown it just might be possible. CCP needs to work on their communication. Way too many fundamental changes are only reported on forums, or even hidden deep in obscure threads on some sub-forum. They have acknowledged this already, and have promised to improve. An in-game announcement system is a must, which should show patch notes, and any major changes to game balance, market prices, etc. Pay-to-win is a real risk with any free-to-play game. CCP has fixed some AUR items which were better than their ISK counterparts, has clearly stated their commitment to avoid P2W, and has urged the community to report any AUR items which don't align with ISK items. This is as it should be. Boosters offer an edge to those with deep pockets, but most similar F2P games use a similar approach, and few people are against boosters in their current form. The high SP requirements in Uprising and low SP from matches make boosters more attractive, if not necessary to reach end-game in a reasonable time frame. This is something we as a community need to keep an eye on. In conclusion, CCP has outlined a future game which is aligned with the desires of the overall community. They have shown ability to take action where necessary, and ignore it where it's noise, QQ and invalid buff/nerf requests. Unfortunately they have also shown they will alter real-money transfer terms to their liking at the expense of their most fervent supporters and paying customers. This needs to be addressed, as the precedent set doesn't instill trust in future transactions with the company. I think launch is premature, but we are in this for the long haul. We will need 2-3 more builds before we are in AAA shooter territory which is the stated goal of CCP. I just hope that Dust finds its audience in the coming months and years, and will not get shot down and shut down based on the next few months' results. Some of the changes and improvements have not been as speedy as I would have liked them, some bugs and exploits remain, and new ones have been introduced. Fortunately there is nothing which is gamebreaking - except for the lag mentioned for some people. Dust is headed in the right direction. We need to have patience, enjoy the game as it is right now, suggest improvements and changes where necessary, and complain less.

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 387	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:53:00 - [4] - Quote First.

jenza aranda BetaMax. CRONOS. 1325	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:53:00 - [5] - Quote ChribbaX wrote: First. you are a bad person :P
Snaps Tremor The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 203	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:53:00 - [6] - Quote notepad.exe
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 499	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:54:00 - [7] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: ChribbaX wrote: First. you are a bad person :P Whew, beat him by seconds :)

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 387	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:11:00 - [8] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: ChribbaX wrote: First. you are a bad person :P <3

trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 391	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:23:00 - [9] - Quote Mentioning menial things like matchmaking in a sandbox game aside, good read. I have a similiar backgroud with the exception of playing all the fps games on mouse thus far (bought ps3 for dust only). My biggest gripe is the horrible implementation of mouse support that got stuck with arbitrary turn speed caps. The feel of dust for me is more akin to mechwarrior online than fps games now. This makes me rage a whole lot now, as I wasted my time and cash in ps3 and 15 merc packs total now, with no hope of the fps in dust being redeemed. The promise of the sandbox has me sadly hooked, though. All I wish now is to either be able to quit heartbroken, or for the lifting of these arbitrary turn speed caps that absolutely ruin my controls. I will not learn to aim multiple times slower than before, just to not hit the speed cap which messes up the aim movement.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:26:00 - [10] - Quote Good thread. Have a like for your trouble.

Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 509	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:32:00 - [11] - Quote Good feedback however it feels to me you just skimmed the surface, it read like you picked the game up for a day or two and just pointed out the obvious, very general review. Enjoyed reading it though, no "qq this is OP" rubbish.
anc13nt The Vanguardians Orion Empire 0	Posted - 2013.05.13 15:23:00 - [12] - Quote Good stuff from OP, deserves bump to front page. Generally I think we need to separate the gameplay feedback from the balancing feedback. Balancing is what it is, it is a never ending story of complaints. Off topic, on the EVE forums, there are 2 battleships being balanced in 2 separate threads with CCP Fozzie, Gallente and Caldari. Both of those threads have reached the same conclusion, that CCP hates "their" race and loves the other one.... Mouse KB aside (known issue, being fixed) I actually think there are only 2 things that have gotten worse from a gameplay point of view. Getting stuck on corners, stairs and objects. I have died so many times in the last week. This wasn't in Chromosome. Please fix it asap CCP Grenade throw, weapon swap and enter vehicle response lag. This is also much worse than in Chromosome. The other gameplay issues are more or less about getting used to new sensitivities, scopes etc. With those things fixed and a noob queue, I think the game is really coming together.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 509	Posted - 2013.05.13 19:05:00 - [13] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: Mentioning menial things like matchmaking in a sandbox game aside, good read. Menial? Hardly. I stand by my statement that MM will make or break the game in the early weeks and months. If the word gets out that Dust is a sandbox game where protostompers publulz their way over n00bs, we won't hit sustainable concurrent users. MM won't make any difference to those of us who are here for PC. But there isn't a PC match available 24/7, and I bet an organized 6-man squad will steamroll entire 500k SP n00b teams single(6?)-handedly. This must not be allowed to happen, and n00bs should at least have the option to learn the game without getting spawn camped and redlined. Quote: My biggest gripe is the horrible implementation of mouse support that got stuck with arbitrary turn speed caps. The feel of dust for me is more akin to mechwarrior online than fps games now. This makes me rage a whole lot now, as I wasted my time and cash in ps3 and 15 merc packs total now, with no hope of the fps in dust being redeemed. The promise of the sandbox has me sadly hooked, though. I've been a KBM user for 15 of my 20 years with FPSs, and still play KBM on PC. I prefer KBM as a control scheme, but I prefer playing on my couch and big screen more. But KBM must be balanced with controller. If it's not, the few people who do use KBM will have an advantage over the masses who use a controller. Having unrestricted turn speed for mouse would be hugely OP. I haven't played Dust with KBM, though, so can't really comment. Sir Meode wrote: Good feedback however it feels to me you just skimmed the surface, it read like you picked the game up for a day or two and just pointed out the obvious, very general review. It's already three posts long, don't think anyone would have bothered to read an even longer treatise :P The whole purpose was to cover as much ground in one thread as possible. Some of the points raised are certainly obvious to most of us, but again, that's the purpose: we need to ensure on-going scourges such as AFK farming stay on the surface, instead of getting stuck on debating the intricacies of stacking penalties. I have written about some specific subjects at length in other threads.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2013.05.13 19:35:00 - [14] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: Mentioning menial things like matchmaking in a sandbox game aside, good read. I have a similiar backgroud with the exception of playing all the fps games on mouse thus far (bought ps3 for dust only). My biggest gripe is the horrible implementation of mouse support that got stuck with arbitrary turn speed caps. The feel of dust for me is more akin to mechwarrior online than fps games now. This makes me rage a whole lot now, as I wasted my time and cash in ps3 and 15 merc packs total now, with no hope of the fps in dust being redeemed. The promise of the sandbox has me sadly hooked, though. All I wish now is to either be able to quit heartbroken, or for the lifting of these arbitrary turn speed caps that absolutely ruin my controls. I will not learn to aim multiple times slower than before, just to not hit the speed cap which messes up the aim movement. lol
Z00KU BetaMax. CRONOS. 2	Posted - 2013.05.13 20:10:00 - [15] - Quote Good Post
Tac Com Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. 51	Posted - 2013.05.13 20:33:00 - [16] - Quote trollsroyce wrote: Mentioning menial things like matchmaking in a sandbox game aside, good read. I have a similiar backgroud with the exception of playing all the fps games on mouse thus far (bought ps3 for dust only). My biggest gripe is the horrible implementation of mouse support that got stuck with arbitrary turn speed caps. The feel of dust for me is more akin to mechwarrior online than fps games now. This makes me rage a whole lot now, as I wasted my time and cash in ps3 and 15 merc packs total now, with no hope of the fps in dust being redeemed. The promise of the sandbox has me sadly hooked, though. All I wish now is to either be able to quit heartbroken, or for the lifting of these arbitrary turn speed caps that absolutely ruin my controls. I will not learn to aim multiple times slower than before, just to not hit the speed cap which messes up the aim movement. I don't know if this will help you but I did experiment with the KBM controls quite a bit. The turning rate is rather difficult to get used to once you've played mouse-centric shooters for so long. I feel your pain. What I did come across in Chromesome is that the mouse sensitivity is linked to the X/Y sensitivity of the controller. On PC games I like to have a moderate-high sensitivity while I have a much lower sensitivity on my controller as I don't have quite the same fine tune control with my thumbs. But bumping up the controller sensitivity does increase the mouse sensitivity and then the seperate mouse sensitivity bar is a percentage multiplier of how much you want the controller's sensitivity to effect the mouse. If you already know this one though then yea, you're probably as high as you can go. At that point you just have to realize that the mouse will not beable to turn a ton faster then a controller as they need to beable to balance the 2 input devices. I know it feels really odd to hit speed caps on mice in games but it's a comprimise that was made being a console game.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 514	Posted - 2013.05.14 17:28:00 - [17] - Quote Tac Com wrote: What I did come across in Chromesome is that the mouse sensitivity is linked to the X/Y sensitivity of the controller. I recall a Dev saying that this shouldn't even be possible - might have been after Uprising, though.


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