DUST Search - What CCP were thinking when they were making Gallente Medium and Caldari Medium ...

Cat Merc wrote:

Delirium Inferno wrote:

To everyone who thinks Armor Tanking is useless.

1. You probably think the plates make you ridiculously slow. Why don't you do the math and see exactly where a 10% reduction actually takes you. You don't become as slow as a heavy, I can guarantee you. You still get around just fine. I've ran down several people with my armor tanking suit. When you are traveling distances within a single base, you are going to get there at pretty much the same time as a guy without armor plates, so it's ideal for defending the entirety of a base. The only point where you'll notice the speed difference is if you're trying to run long distances between bases.

2. You probably think armor sucks because it doesn't recharge automatically and even when it does it is slower than shield recharging. However, Gallente gets a ton of low-slots so you have room for a couple complex armor repairers. With these two plus the skill bonus, you are repairing 12.5 per second. And this is continuous, no delay. A shield tanker may have to wait 6 seconds for the recharge to kick in, in that time I have already repaired 75 of my armor. And if a shield guy gets hit just a little during that delay it starts over. Armor repairers are much better in my opinion for long shootouts whereas shield tanking is better for when you plan for quick engagements.

3. Armor plating gives you a lot more health than shield extenders. They also don't get wiped out when standing somewhat near a flux grenade. They can be repaired by an equipment that can go over 100 hp per second. There is no shield repairer tool. When you get revived by a nano injector, it revives a percentage of your armor but none of your shields, so armor tankers come back stronger.

Not even to mention we are getting a new weapon in a couple days that will tear through shields. I'm not saying shields are useless, but armor tanking does have plenty of upsides.

1. Walking speed is important for 1v1, and gallente are always easier targets because of that.

2. A Caldari can fit extenders without having to fit any "reps".
And no, that's 100% false and I tested time and time again, after the first hit, another hit won't reset the timer.
Putting a shield reg on your suit will negate a lot of that time spent waiting.

3. Armor plating gives you a bullet more health.
A bullet.
And if you use it you don't get to have proper recharge.
Any explosives destroy armor instantly, and its not like you have a layer of suit behind that armor like shields do.
Also, that 100hp rep is a lie, its only for vehicles, I checked.
Shield transfers will come, EVE has it, its not like CCP cares about Shield/Armor balance like they showed time and time again.

The scrambler rifle does 120% damage to shields and 80% to armor.
AR does 110% to shields, 90% to armor.
So none of your upsides are actually true.


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Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 220	Posted - 2013.05.12 17:17:00 - [1] - Quote To everyone who thinks Armor Tanking is useless. 1. You probably think the plates make you ridiculously slow. Why don't you do the math and see exactly where a 10% reduction actually takes you. You don't become as slow as a heavy, I can guarantee you. You still get around just fine. I've ran down several people with my armor tanking suit. When you are traveling distances within a single base, you are going to get there at pretty much the same time as a guy without armor plates, so it's ideal for defending the entirety of a base. The only point where you'll notice the speed difference is if you're trying to run long distances between bases. 2. You probably think armor sucks because it doesn't recharge automatically and even when it does it is slower than shield recharging. However, Gallente gets a ton of low-slots so you have room for a couple complex armor repairers. With these two plus the skill bonus, you are repairing 12.5 per second. And this is continuous, no delay. A shield tanker may have to wait 6 seconds for the recharge to kick in, in that time I have already repaired 75 of my armor. And if a shield guy gets hit just a little during that delay it starts over. Armor repairers are much better in my opinion for long shootouts whereas shield tanking is better for when you plan for quick engagements. 3. Armor plating gives you a lot more health than shield extenders. They also don't get wiped out when standing somewhat near a flux grenade. They can be repaired by an equipment that can go over 100 hp per second. There is no shield repairer tool. When you get revived by a nano injector, it revives a percentage of your armor but none of your shields, so armor tankers come back stronger. Not even to mention we are getting a new weapon in a couple days that will tear through shields. I'm not saying shields are useless, but armor tanking does have plenty of upsides.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 220	Posted - 2013.05.12 17:43:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: To everyone who thinks Armor Tanking is useless. 1. You probably think the plates make you ridiculously slow. Why don't you do the math and see exactly where a 10% reduction actually takes you. You don't become as slow as a heavy, I can guarantee you. You still get around just fine. I've ran down several people with my armor tanking suit. When you are traveling distances within a single base, you are going to get there at pretty much the same time as a guy without armor plates, so it's ideal for defending the entirety of a base. The only point where you'll notice the speed difference is if you're trying to run long distances between bases. 2. You probably think armor sucks because it doesn't recharge automatically and even when it does it is slower than shield recharging. However, Gallente gets a ton of low-slots so you have room for a couple complex armor repairers. With these two plus the skill bonus, you are repairing 12.5 per second. And this is continuous, no delay. A shield tanker may have to wait 6 seconds for the recharge to kick in, in that time I have already repaired 75 of my armor. And if a shield guy gets hit just a little during that delay it starts over. Armor repairers are much better in my opinion for long shootouts whereas shield tanking is better for when you plan for quick engagements. 3. Armor plating gives you a lot more health than shield extenders. They also don't get wiped out when standing somewhat near a flux grenade. They can be repaired by an equipment that can go over 100 hp per second. There is no shield repairer tool. When you get revived by a nano injector, it revives a percentage of your armor but none of your shields, so armor tankers come back stronger. Not even to mention we are getting a new weapon in a couple days that will tear through shields. I'm not saying shields are useless, but armor tanking does have plenty of upsides. 1. Walking speed is important for 1v1, and gallente are always easier targets because of that. 2. A Caldari can fit extenders without having to fit any "reps". And no, that's 100% false and I tested time and time again, after the first hit, another hit won't reset the timer. Putting a shield reg on your suit will negate a lot of that time spent waiting. 3. Armor plating gives you a bullet more health. A bullet. And if you use it you don't get to have proper recharge. Any explosives destroy armor instantly, and its not like you have a layer of suit behind that armor like shields do. Also, that 100hp rep is a lie, its only for vehicles, I checked. Shield transfers will come, EVE has it, its not like CCP cares about Shield/Armor balance like they showed time and time again. The scrambler rifle does 120% damage to shields and 80% to armor. AR does 110% to shields, 90% to armor. So none of your upsides are actually true. 1. My buddy is a shield tanker. We tried getting the normal distance between most 1v1s and moving around, it was pretty similar. Not enough to make any noticeable difference in 1v1s. You are still taking the fallocy of assuming armor makes you ridiculously slow, which it does not. Have you actually skilled into armor and tried putting it on before? 2. Ok, so even if I'm wrong on the shield recharge thing, it still takes 6 seconds to recharge which is 75 armor repaired in that time. Even if you reduce that time a little, keep in mind 10% of 6 seconds is only .6 seconds. So instead of the armor tanker repairing 75 armor during your delay, he repaired 67.5. There is still an upside here. 3. Armor tankers may have to use some of the slots that could go towards more armor for armor repairers, but even then because armor gives you more hitpoints than shields we come out with similar total hitpoints. So what's the difference here? Armor tankers can still fit damage modifiers. If a shield tanker tries that then he loses those hitpoints. Explosives do not instantly destroy armor, that is false. It hurts us a lot more than it would shields, but it doesn't instantly wipe it out like flux grenades to shields. And I'll have to check with you on that 100hp repair tool because I've heard several people say they are loving on infantry. Either way there is still no shield repairer tool. Shield transfers would still be transfers, meaning someone would have to give some up. And you proved my point exactly that the scrambler rifle and assault rifle both do more damage to shields than they do armor. 20% difference with the assault rifle, 40% difference with the scrambler. These are very substantial values. Oh and you didn't even try to counter on the revival part. If someone is using the 30% standard injector, that is either 0 shield and 40 armor for a Caldari shield tanker who put nothing into armor. If invested in the 25% armor upgrade core skill, then congratulations! The Caldari shield tanker gets 0 shield and 50 armor on revival. Good luck with that. So actually, all my upsides are true buddy.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 220	Posted - 2013.05.12 17:54:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: 1. Yes, I have, and its slow as hell. Have you ever tried to use shields? I stopped right here because you are insisting on something that is simply not true. Maybe if you are trying to run from the MCC all the way to the C on Manus Peak you'll notice you are getting passed up, but if are are simply within one of those bases and try to run across it you'll get everywhere within negligible time difference to a non armor tanker. Again, I'm suggesting armor tankers are more fitted for base defense rather than sprinting from base to base. And yes, I have tried complex shield extenders.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 220	Posted - 2013.05.12 17:57:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 1. Yes, I have, and its slow as hell. Have you ever tried to use shields? I stopped right here because you are insisting on something that is simply not true. And yes, I have tried complex shield extenders. Then I guess we have different standards. I could do the same and stop when you say its not much of a difference. I notice it, believe me. When I face Gallente suits they are far easier targets than Caldari ones. Edited my post above a little bit if that helps.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 220	Posted - 2013.05.12 18:10:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Delirium Inferno wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 1. Yes, I have, and its slow as hell. Have you ever tried to use shields? I stopped right here because you are insisting on something that is simply not true. And yes, I have tried complex shield extenders. Then I guess we have different standards. I could do the same and stop when you say its not much of a difference. I notice it, believe me. When I face Gallente suits they are far easier targets than Caldari ones. Edited my post above a little bit if that helps. I didn't counter the revival part because its pointless. If you get revived and someone can see you, you are dead. Dead, dead, dead. Also, shields start recharging almost instantly after you get revived. My edit was about the sprinting and relative distances, not revival. The revival part was in there before the edit, you must of missed it.