People don't like the caldari logi because it can bring together all these great slaying/tanking abilities along with equip slots to boot right? So alongside with the slower speed (!), and no sidearm (only mitigated currently by tac ar's large amount of ammo), and lower base hp (making it cheaper with lower fitting cost to be an assault with comprable hp) why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? If we lowered it even a little, we would see people sacrificing to make either role, but not all work.

This is just an idea. I have seen many (I agree a viable one would simply be to leave the slots alone and buff other classes)
I've enjoyed dust51foruming lately and appreciated the positive support for changing the assault bonus to 1-2% increase in damage per level, just wanted to throw another out there.

why don't we also lower its PG/CPU?

I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot.

Cause it's a logi
Just change or reduce it's bonus.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&find=unread
As you can see, the two are fairly even before the racial bonus.


Shut up scrub.

Cause it's a logi
Just change or reduce it's bonus.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&find=unread
As you can see, the two are fairly even before the racial bonus.

Umm...cause a slight nerf that keeps it higher in cpu and pg than every other class makes it wrong to not be on par with other logi's?

Go biomass yourself...the pg on the suit is 78... base.

It should be on par with logis though.
Their bonus is the source of all these threads, it needs to go. Not sure why you guys are looking to change things that aren't actually related to the actual problem.

That's the proto suit designed to carry mostly proto equipment.

Fix the actual problem, don't just nerf random things and hope it's enough to make people happy.

I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot.

People don't like the caldari logi because it can bring together all these great slaying/tanking abilities along with equip slots to boot right? So alongside with the slower speed (!), and no sidearm (only mitigated currently by tac ar's large amount of ammo), and lower base hp (making it cheaper with lower fitting cost to be an assault with comprable hp) why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? If we lowered it even a little, we would see people sacrificing to make either role, but not all work.

This is just an idea. I have seen many (I agree a viable one would simply be to leave the slots alone and buff other classes)
I've enjoyed dust51foruming lately and appreciated the positive support for changing the assault bonus to 1-2% increase in damage per level, just wanted to throw another out there.

LOGIS: overall bonus make equipment take 5% or 10% less CPU/PG per level. (Then also nerf CPU and PG by like 5%-10% overall to really encourage logistically play and not assault+1 play)
AMARR: 10% bonus to armor repair module and equipment effectiveness per level
MINMATAR: 5% bonus to hacking speed and DISTANCE.
CALDARI: 10% bonus to shield regen per level.
GALLENTE: 1 HP/s passive armor repair.
(Amarr really needs some love so adding 1 more low slot would definitely be good. Maybe removing 1 low on caldari but very optional)

ASSAULT: overall bonus 2% bonus to weapon damage.
AMARR: 10% bonus to weapon ammo capacity per level ( again amarr i can't figure them out. Though i think they bonus right now is silly)
MINMATAR: 5% bonus stamina regain and maximum amount.
CALDARI: 3% bonus to reload speed.
GALLENTE: 5% reduction to armor plate drawbacks. (actually making the gallente assault more viable as it's not gonna be soooo damm slow. Armor doesn't regenerate as fast as shield so might be a brick you meet at first engagement but with no bonusses to reppers they'll be slow at getting back to max HP. Also encourages to run with logi.
I think this would make assault way better but please i'm not perfect so please change something if you think i'm an idiot.

HEAVIES Overall bonus 4% bonus per level to resistance against small arms fire.
AMARR: I actually have no idea to be honest. I can't figure out what the main role / main tanking / main weapon of the amarr heavy is.

SCOUTS ....... i really haven't looked at scouts at all

Justifying you're incorrect data...

Is the buff to move speed on minmatar on par with other logi's?

Or the assault

...go biomass yourself.

DAMM get out !! sorry but all that's gonna do is nerfing logis so badly that they're not worth playing anymore.
So yeah forget that idea !!!!



I'm a bit with you on this. I think if we don't lower the CPU/PG we're gonna be debating the same thing about the gall logi in a week. Gall logis running around with 2 enhanced plates and stamina, sprint and complex reppers in the rest of it's low while rocking 3 complex damage mods in highs.

Lowering CPU/PG by just very little would be enough.
And yeah as you say Zatara the buff to assaults in giving them a (at level 5 assault ) complex damage mod just passivly would be a major buff that assaults definitely need.



From a previous post. Maybe this could turn it around and make it a lot more even ??

Depends on other stats.

Assault suit is faster... so yes.

The assault suit is not faster...wrong again. the movement speed is the same...I'm no longer replying you until you learn to beack your facts up with data dude. HTFU.

Assault mk.0:
movement speed 5.3
sprint speed 7.4
sprint duration 17.5
stamina 175
stamina recovery rate15/s

Logistics mk.0 :
movement speed 5
sprint speed 7
sprint duration 12s
stamina 120
stamina recovery rate 12/s

...Minmatar assault suit is faster, lol clearly you know wtf you're talking about.

And what about the other three? So it's on par with assaults. please refrain...please.

Faster

Edit: though it seems you were right about the suits PG being 78, so I'll forgive you for being an idiot

Of course you could try and nerf the CPU PG on the Caldari suit and see how that works out, but that's unnecessary since people's biggest complaint stems from it's bonus; therefore, fix the bonus.

Being better in one category doesn't mean it isn't weaker in others, like health.

Of course you could try and nerf the CPU PG on the Caldari suit and see how that works out, but that's unnecessary since people's biggest complaint stems from it's bonus; therefore, fix the bonus.

According to above link the assaults are faster than their racial logi variant.

I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)

I was not trying to arguing that, I was arguing the minmatar logi bonus on speed made it on par with assaults.




I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)

They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support.

And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like.

The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous.

Assaults should get a damage bonus if they want to be real slayers and not just fancy basic suits.

They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support.

And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like.

The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous.

750 huh?

It recently came to my attention that extenders now give more HP, so that number is even higher now.

You are absolutely wrong...679 is the highest shields you can achieve with shield extenders/drop suit shields with all skills maxed. You are an arrogant ignorant imbecile.

Nerf this, nerf that...go **** up a rope.

Simple fix if CCP feels the need to cave to the most ludicrous QQ event I have experienced since I started the closed Beta nearly a year ago: make the fitting Invalid if the equipment slots are not used. Try running all those complex modules/weapons AND equipment even with the Logi's CPU/PG levels. I been running this fit for over six months and for any real Logi there are sacrifices you have to make.

Mandatory Equipment is all you need to "nerf" this class. Anyone who wants more than that has their own agenda in this ridiculous debate.

Well then you are destroying a very well laid foundation of this game. Nobody is asking for major nerfs like "buu make logis gun do 20% less damage !!!" or "make logis as slow as heavies" or "make logis have to carry a injector no matter what !!" wait....

By forcing logis to carry one type of an equipment you destroy the sandbox there is around fittings. Then you also have to force the minm scouts to use nova knifes in some way or another. Heavies need to fit either forge gun or HMG's. I hope you get the point.

IF !! logis need a nerf in any way then it has to be around their base stats and bonuses. DO NOT TOUCH THE SLOTLAYOUT

Well then you are destroying a very well laid foundation of this game. Nobody is asking for major nerfs like "buu make logis gun do 20% less damage !!!" or "make logis as slow as heavies" or "make logis have to carry a injector no matter what !!" wait....

By forcing logis to carry one type of an equipment you destroy the sandbox there is around fittings. Then you also have to force the minm scouts to use nova knifes in some way or another. Heavies need to fit either forge gun or HMG's. I hope you get the point.

IF !! logis need a nerf in any way then it has to be around their base stats and bonuses. DO NOT TOUCH THE SLOTLAYOUT

CCP should remove some of the high and low slots on all suits so they can't stack so much shielding and or armor. No suit should be able to get even remotely close to the heavy suit HP capability which as the game is now, they do. Assault suits and Logi suits are the new heavy suits.

Seems logical but it isn't. Everyone forgets that Logi's are carrying a lot of expensive EQUIPMENT. That makes the fitting investment very high and as a Logi, I want the defensive and offensive capability to protect that investment. Base HP in Logi suits are not that impressive. In fact, I can nearly match my Proto Minmatar Logi suit in total HP (running 3 enhanced Shield Extenders and 1 Enhanced Armor Plate) with a Militia Caldari Assault Suit running just 1 Enhanced Shield Extender. The difference in suit price is about 130k ISK. As a Logi I need to be able to:

Engage enemy to clear a danger area.

Enter said danger area to revive teammates.

Resist damage as I move to cover (we are pretty slow).

Resist damage as I switch from equipment to weapon. (Other classes almost always have weapon in-hand)

Be able to equip other modules besides defensive ones to help me do my job better. (CPU/PG upgrades in lower level suits, Code-breakers, E-War mods).