Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
People don't like the caldari logi because it can bring together all these great slaying/tanking abilities along with equip slots to boot right? So alongside with the slower speed (!), and no sidearm (only mitigated currently by tac ar's large amount of ammo), and lower base hp (making it cheaper with lower fitting cost to be an assault with comprable hp) why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? If we lowered it even a little, we would see people sacrificing to make either role, but not all work.
This is just an idea. I have seen many (I agree a viable one would simply be to leave the slots alone and buff other classes) I've enjoyed dust51foruming lately and appreciated the positive support for changing the assault bonus to 1-2% increase in damage per level, just wanted to throw another out there. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
289
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:People don't like the caldari logi because it can bring together all these great slaying/tanking abilities along with equip slots to boot right? So alongside with the slower speed (!), and no sidearm (only mitigated currently by tac ar's large amount of ammo), and lower base hp (making it cheaper with lower fitting cost to be an assault with comprable hp) why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? If we lowered it even a little, we would see people sacrificing to make either role, but not all work. This is just an idea. I have seen many (I agree a viable one would simply be to leave the slots alone and buff other classes) I've enjoyed dust51foruming lately and appreciated the positive support for changing the assault bonus to 1-2% increase in damage per level, just wanted to throw another out there.
I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? Cause it's a logi Just change or reduce it's bonus. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&find=unread As you can see, the two are fairly even before the racial bonus.
XeroTheBigBoss wrote: I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot.
Shut up scrub. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? Cause it's a logi Just change or reduce it's bonus. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&find=unreadAs you can see, the two are fairly even before the racial bonus. XeroTheBigBoss wrote: I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot.
Shut up scrub.
Umm...cause a slight nerf that keeps it higher in cpu and pg than every other class makes it wrong to not be on par with other logi's? I personally liked that the minmatar allowed the higher speed, or that the amarr get a sidearm. I even like the fact that the Caldari provided enough sandbox to make an assault out of a logi, or the gallente being the best pure logi logi. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Go biomass yourself...the pg on the suit is 78... base. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote: Umm...cause a slight nerf that keeps it higher in cpu and pg than every other class makes it wrong to not be on par with other logi's?
It should be on par with logis though. Their bonus is the source of all these threads, it needs to go. Not sure why you guys are looking to change things that aren't actually related to the actual problem. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote: Go biomass yourself...the pg on the suit is 78... base.
That's the proto suit designed to carry mostly proto equipment.
Fix the actual problem, don't just nerf random things and hope it's enough to make people happy. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote: Umm...cause a slight nerf that keeps it higher in cpu and pg than every other class makes it wrong to not be on par with other logi's?
It should be on par with logis though. Their bonus is the source of all these threads, it needs to go. Not sure why you guys are looking to change things that aren't actually related to the actual problem.
Is the buff to move speed on minmatar on par with other logi's? Or the assault...go biomass yourself. It would be on par with other logi's fool |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote: Go biomass yourself...the pg on the suit is 78... base.
That's the proto suit designed to carry mostly proto equipment. Fix the actual problem, don't just nerf random things and hope it's enough to make people happy.
Justifying you're incorrect data...
Why don't you go fix your mistake and admit you were fundamentally flawed in your assertion that they have comparable stats? |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote: I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot.
DAMM get out !! sorry but all that's gonna do is nerfing logis so badly that they're not worth playing anymore. So yeah forget that idea !!!!
Zatara Rought wrote: People don't like the caldari logi because it can bring together all these great slaying/tanking abilities along with equip slots to boot right? So alongside with the slower speed (!), and no sidearm (only mitigated currently by tac ar's large amount of ammo), and lower base hp (making it cheaper with lower fitting cost to be an assault with comprable hp) why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? If we lowered it even a little, we would see people sacrificing to make either role, but not all work.
This is just an idea. I have seen many (I agree a viable one would simply be to leave the slots alone and buff other classes) I've enjoyed dust51foruming lately and appreciated the positive support for changing the assault bonus to 1-2% increase in damage per level, just wanted to throw another out there.
I'm a bit with you on this. I think if we don't lower the CPU/PG we're gonna be debating the same thing about the gall logi in a week. Gall logis running around with 2 enhanced plates and stamina, sprint and complex reppers in the rest of it's low while rocking 3 complex damage mods in highs.
Lowering CPU/PG by just very little would be enough. And yeah as you say Zatara the buff to assaults in giving them a (at level 5 assault ) complex damage mod just passivly would be a major buff that assaults definitely need.
Den-tredje Baron wrote:LOGIS: overall bonus make equipment take 5% or 10% less CPU/PG per level. (Then also nerf CPU and PG by like 5%-10% overall to really encourage logistically play and not assault+1 play) AMARR: 10% bonus to armor repair module and equipment effectiveness per level MINMATAR: 5% bonus to hacking speed and DISTANCE. CALDARI: 10% bonus to shield regen per level. GALLENTE: 1 HP/s passive armor repair. (Amarr really needs some love so adding 1 more low slot would definitely be good. Maybe removing 1 low on caldari but very optional)
ASSAULT: overall bonus 2% bonus to weapon damage. AMARR: 10% bonus to weapon ammo capacity per level ( again amarr i can't figure them out. Though i think they bonus right now is silly) MINMATAR: 5% bonus stamina regain and maximum amount. CALDARI: 3% bonus to reload speed. GALLENTE: 5% reduction to armor plate drawbacks. (actually making the gallente assault more viable as it's not gonna be soooo damm slow. Armor doesn't regenerate as fast as shield so might be a brick you meet at first engagement but with no bonusses to reppers they'll be slow at getting back to max HP. Also encourages to run with logi. I think this would make assault way better but please i'm not perfect so please change something if you think i'm an idiot.
HEAVIES Overall bonus 4% bonus per level to resistance against small arms fire. AMARR: I actually have no idea to be honest. I can't figure out what the main role / main tanking / main weapon of the amarr heavy is.
SCOUTS ....... i really haven't looked at scouts at all
From a previous post. Maybe this could turn it around and make it a lot more even ?? |
|
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote: Go biomass yourself...the pg on the suit is 78... base.
That's the proto suit designed to carry mostly proto equipment. Fix the actual problem, don't just nerf random things and hope it's enough to make people happy. Justifying you're incorrect data... The data is correct, that's it's in item description data. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:
Is the buff to move speed on minmatar on par with other logi's?
Depends on other stats.
Assault suit is faster... so yes
Quote:...go biomass yourself. Not my fault that your solutions have nothing to do with the problem. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Den-tredje Baron wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote: I like the idea where they take the L away and give them S slot.
DAMM get out !! sorry but all that's gonna do is nerfing logis so badly that they're not worth playing anymore. So yeah forget that idea !!!! Zatara Rought wrote: People don't like the caldari logi because it can bring together all these great slaying/tanking abilities along with equip slots to boot right? So alongside with the slower speed (!), and no sidearm (only mitigated currently by tac ar's large amount of ammo), and lower base hp (making it cheaper with lower fitting cost to be an assault with comprable hp) why don't we also lower its PG/CPU? If we lowered it even a little, we would see people sacrificing to make either role, but not all work.
This is just an idea. I have seen many (I agree a viable one would simply be to leave the slots alone and buff other classes) I've enjoyed dust51foruming lately and appreciated the positive support for changing the assault bonus to 1-2% increase in damage per level, just wanted to throw another out there.
I'm a bit with you on this. I think if we don't lower the CPU/PG we're gonna be debating the same thing about the gall logi in a week. Gall logis running around with 2 enhanced plates and stamina, sprint and complex reppers in the rest of it's low while rocking 3 complex damage mods in highs. Lowering CPU/PG by just very little would be enough. And yeah as you say Zatara the buff to assaults in giving them a (at level 5 assault ) complex damage mod just passivly would be a major buff that assaults definitely need. Den-tredje Baron wrote:LOGIS: overall bonus make equipment take 5% or 10% less CPU/PG per level. (Then also nerf CPU and PG by like 5%-10% overall to really encourage logistically play and not assault+1 play) AMARR: 10% bonus to armor repair module and equipment effectiveness per level MINMATAR: 5% bonus to hacking speed and DISTANCE. CALDARI: 10% bonus to shield regen per level. GALLENTE: 1 HP/s passive armor repair. (Amarr really needs some love so adding 1 more low slot would definitely be good. Maybe removing 1 low on caldari but very optional)
ASSAULT: overall bonus 2% bonus to weapon damage. AMARR: 10% bonus to weapon ammo capacity per level ( again amarr i can't figure them out. Though i think they bonus right now is silly) MINMATAR: 5% bonus stamina regain and maximum amount. CALDARI: 3% bonus to reload speed. GALLENTE: 5% reduction to armor plate drawbacks. (actually making the gallente assault more viable as it's not gonna be soooo damm slow. Armor doesn't regenerate as fast as shield so might be a brick you meet at first engagement but with no bonusses to reppers they'll be slow at getting back to max HP. Also encourages to run with logi. I think this would make assault way better but please i'm not perfect so please change something if you think i'm an idiot.
HEAVIES Overall bonus 4% bonus per level to resistance against small arms fire. AMARR: I actually have no idea to be honest. I can't figure out what the main role / main tanking / main weapon of the amarr heavy is.
SCOUTS ....... i really haven't looked at scouts at all From a previous post. Maybe this could turn it around and make it a lot more even ??
yes, I replied to that post right after I posted this and I think there i some real insight there. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:
Is the buff to move speed on minmatar on par with other logi's?
Depends on other stats. Assault suit is faster... so yes.
The assault suit is not faster...wrong again. the movement speed is the same...I'm no longer replying you until you learn to beack your facts up with data dude. HTFU. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:
Is the buff to move speed on minmatar on par with other logi's?
Depends on other stats. Assault suit is faster... so yes. The assault suit is not faster...wrong again. the movement speed is the same...I'm no longer replying you until you learn to beack your facts up with data dude. HTFU. ...Minmatar assault suit is faster, lol clearly you know wtf you're talking about. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:Assault mk.0: movement speed 5.3 sprint speed 7.4 sprint duration 17.5 stamina 175 stamina recovery rate15/s
Logistics mk.0 : movement speed 5 sprint speed 7 sprint duration 12s stamina 120 stamina recovery rate 12/s Faster |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 23:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:
Is the buff to move speed on minmatar on par with other logi's?
Depends on other stats. Assault suit is faster... so yes. The assault suit is not faster...wrong again. the movement speed is the same...I'm no longer replying you until you learn to beack your facts up with data dude. HTFU. ...Minmatar assault suit is faster, lol clearly you know wtf you're talking about.
And what about the other three? So it's on par with assaults. please refrain...please. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:And what about the other three? So it's on par with assaults. please refrain...please. Being better in one category doesn't mean it isn't weaker in others, like health.
Of course you could try and nerf the CPU PG on the Caldari suit and see how that works out, but that's unnecessary since people's biggest complaint stems from it's bonus; therefore, fix the bonus. |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Quote:Assault mk.0: movement speed 5.3 sprint speed 7.4 sprint duration 17.5 stamina 175 stamina recovery rate15/s
Logistics mk.0 : movement speed 5 sprint speed 7 sprint duration 12s stamina 120 stamina recovery rate 12/s Faster Edit: though it seems you were right about the suits PG being 78, so I'll forgive you for being an idiot
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqMshc-A6HVHdGdNcHJkNktJOV9FaUVFMGRZYzI0Qnc#gid=0
^^ dropsuit stats (hopefully they are right otherwise my source is bad
According to above link the assaults are faster than their racial logi variant.
Quote:Of course you could try and nerf the CPU PG on the Caldari suit and see how that works out, but that's unnecessary since people's biggest complaint stems from it's bonus; therefore, fix the bonus. Only thing needing change on caldari logi is bonus. The MINOR CPU/PG nerf should be for all logi suits but that should ONLY !! be implemented if all logi suits get a overall bonus to lower equipment CPU/PG cost as it would otherwise be very unfair. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:And what about the other three? So it's on par with assaults. please refrain...please. Being better in one category doesn't mean it isn't weaker in others, like health. Of course you could try and nerf the CPU PG on the Caldari suit and see how that works out, but that's unnecessary since people's biggest complaint stems from it's bonus; therefore, fix the bonus.
I'm tired of arguing, you should just concede the points you were wrong about and let's be forum friends ^_^ |
|
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Den-tredje Baron wrote:
According to above link the assaults are faster than their racial logi variant.
I was not trying to arguing that, I was arguing the minmatar logi bonus on speed made it on par with assaults.
[/quote] Only thing needing change on caldari logi is bonus. The MINOR CPU/PG nerf should be for all logi suits but that should ONLY !! be implemented if all logi suits get a overall bonus to lower equipment CPU/PG cost as it would otherwise be very unfair.[/quote]
I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi) |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote: I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)
They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support.
And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like.
The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous. |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Den-tredje Baron wrote:
According to above link the assaults are faster than their racial logi variant.
I was not trying to arguing that, I was arguing the minmatar logi bonus on speed made it on par with assaults. Den-tredje Baron wrote:Only thing needing change on caldari logi is bonus. The MINOR CPU/PG nerf should be for all logi suits but that should ONLY !! be implemented if all logi suits get a overall bonus to lower equipment CPU/PG cost as it would otherwise be very unfair. I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)
aahh ok it seemed for me as you guys where arguing about if all the logis where just as fast as the assaults
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support.
And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like.
The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous.
Sadly true
All the logis are actually ok slayers right now as the assaults have no real bonus to add to their slaying capability
|
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
326
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Assaults should get a damage bonus if they want to be real slayers and not just fancy basic suits. |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Assaults should get a damage bonus if they want to be real slayers and not just fancy basic suits. Definitely. Don't alter logis slot layout or their light weapon slot.
Maybe we can then also get rid of that +10% to damage on all guns stuff. If then sentinel gets a 5% reduction to light firearms damage per level heavies would also be much more tanky as they've called for all the time. Scouts can keep their 5% lower scan signature per level and maybe, hopefully soon coming pilot dropsuits, will give something like 3% to dropsuit racial vehicle resistance.
Then we're beginning to rock with the bonuses
Only needing a better bonuses to racial sentinels and racial scouts as the feedback damage for the amarr sentinel seems like a stupid safety bonus for the people who don't know to stop when they should have
and the increase in nova knife damage to minmatar scout. Really ??? what about shotgun optimal increase by 5% per level or something a lot more useful. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 01:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote: I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)
They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support. And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like. The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous.
750 huh? |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
151
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nerf this, nerf that...go **** up a rope.
Simple fix if CCP feels the need to cave to the most ludicrous QQ event I have experienced since I started the closed Beta nearly a year ago: make the fitting Invalid if the equipment slots are not used. Try running all those complex modules/weapons AND equipment even with the Logi's CPU/PG levels. I been running this fit for over six months and for any real Logi there are sacrifices you have to make.
Mandatory Equipment is all you need to "nerf" this class. Anyone who wants more than that has their own agenda in this ridiculous debate. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
337
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote: I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)
They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support. And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like. The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous. 750 huh? It recently came to my attention that extenders now give more HP, so that number is even higher now. |
Zatara Rought
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 16:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Zatara Rought wrote: I think the CPU/PG nerf would be intended on the caldari to ompensate for making it the potentially most slayer like on the logi variants (vs the gallente being the most pure logi)
They're all slayers, logis are not support roles, they're killers who can support. And out of all the suits the Ammar is the most assault like. The Caldari variant just needs it's bonus nerfed, 750 EHP from using nothing but extenders is ridiculous. 750 huh? It recently came to my attention that extenders now give more HP, so that number is even higher now.
You are absolutely wrong...679 is the highest shields you can achieve with shield extenders/drop suit shields with all skills maxed. You are an arrogant ignorant imbecile. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
323
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 17:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
All you spreadsheet fappin nerds just STOP.
Nerf CPU/PG Change the slots Change this, change that blah blah blha.
Fact is logi is a cpu/pg heavy suit because its meant to be versatile what diminishes it as a got to slayer suit was its lack of mobility and hitbox in chromosome. Even then the Minmatar vk.1 had larger movement speed but Caldari assault suits were great at shield tanking given the vk.1.
With hitboxes being equal and movement speed being nearly equal many of the deterent/incentives for assault are gone. Movement speed and greater base health in assualts would far better move ppl back into the assualt suit and would easily keep caldari logis at bay.
The other obvious thing is the racial bonus for caldari logi. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |