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NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
314
   |
Posted - 2013.05.11 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Caldari Logis vs Assault
First lets look at their stats:
----------------Caldari Assauault: Caldari Logi:
PG:-----------60-----------------------70
CPU:---------300---------------------390
Shield:-------210---------------------180
Armor:-------120----------------------90
SR:-----------25/s---------------------20/s
SRD:---------5s-----------------------4s
SDRD:-------8s-----------------------6s
MS:-----------5-------------------------4.7
SS:-----------7--------------------------6.6
SD:----------15s-----------------------11.5
Stamina:---150-----------------------111.5
S recovery:15/s----------------------12/s
EHP:---------412.5--------------------337.5(75 HP difference) (This was with passives included)
So what is a logistics suit? From it's stats, it's a medium suit that's traded in some of it's base speed, health, and stamina for a higher slot count, while also switching it's side arm for equipment so that it can support it's team instead of slaying(Amarr logi excluded).
So is losing the side arm worth the extra equipment? First, let me ask you something. What side arm do most laser users use? A SMG? Bingo. Why? Because their laser is weak in CQC and does less damage to armor, while the SMG is the opposite of that. So what does a siderm do? It allows the player to overcome the inherent weakness of their main weapon, and gives them an emergency weapon incase they run out of ammo. Logis on the other hand exchange that combat adaptability in order to support their teamates. A side arm deals damage to the enemies, a repair tool heals your teammates. A side arm can kill your enemies, a nanite injector can revive your teammates. A siderm gives you more ammo, a nano-hive gives your whole team more ammo.
All in all I'd say the two are pretty well balanced.
Now then, shield extenders... A logi can fit 5 while an assault can fit 4, that's 330 and 264 respectively.
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 264 = 676.5 EHP
Caldari Logistics: 337.5 + 330 = 667.5 EHP
Nothing wrong so far, in fact the logi suit is losing since it's slower.
Except... that Caldari logi bonus... 5% + to shield extenders per level, with 5 extenders that leads to 412.5 HP from extenders alone, that's the assault suits entire base EHP.
So 412.5 + 337.5 = 750 EHP
750(L) - 676.5(A) = 73.5 HP difference.
That's a bit too much in my opinion.
My possible solutions:
1. Bring down the Caladri bonus from 5% per lvl to 2-3% instead.
That would result in a 24 - 40.5 HP difference, in favor of the logi, which in my opinion is acceptable considering it's also slower.
2: Change the assault class bonus to something useful, my suggestion? 2% weapon damage per level, so that at level 5 it's the equivalent of a permanent complex damage module, this I think would give combat oriented people more of a reason to spec into assault suits instead of logistcs.
3. Like Pheonix has said in other threads, change the Caldari bonus to something more support related
Edit: touch their light weapons and I will cut you!
Edit 2: I think that option 2 should be implemented no matter what, the assault bonus sucks for the Gallenete suit, though not as much as the heavy bonus sucks  |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
315
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 17:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seriously? Logis are OP, you would think this thread would be filled with feedback. H'mm, I guess it's just assault users doing what they do best... QQing. I wonder if that's their class bonus |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
327
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 00:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
... Why are people ignoring me???  |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
340
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 06:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
New maths for maximum QQ, jk, this is serious |
Gawen Eadan
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 07:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Seriously? Logis are OP, you would think this thread would be filled with feedback. H'mm, I guess it's just assault users doing what they do best... QQing. I wonder if that's their class bonus
The logi's are not "OP" 75% of the time namely. I agree the 25% bonus is ridiculous on top of being able to give yourself three nano hives, if needed, to keep that AR, for example, going.
I play an Amarr Logi , and when I see that bright yellow sun of a Caldari suit running towards me, I'd rather head towards the guy with an hmg or in a black assault suit, because I know I can actually hurt and kill them. Even having a sidearm in my proto suit doesn't deal enough, no thanks to the current hit detection system, to take down all these shields, then to think they will just regenerate, along with their armor. Not fun.
One suggested perk for the Caldari Logi might be a 3% bonus efficiency to equipment, since logistics is about keeping your team alive passively or aggressively. This would increase the spread on scanners, effectiveness of injectors on restored health and in future the bonuses they might temporarily apply, the efficiency of rep tools, nano hive clusters, and so on.
The Amarr suit was given an armor mod regen buff to help it live longer and stay in the fray without another logi to support it, healing armor heavy suits through gunfire, and reviving soldiers in a firefight.
The Minmatar move faster, and gained a hack speed, which helps turn installations faster in favor of your team, and get to allies faster to aid them.
The Gallente can equip more, effectively, to be best suited for any occasion their squad might need help with, passively or actively supporting by just being there and using equipment.
Why should Caldari be selfish in aiding itself with shields and outdoing its proper attack counterpart for combat effectiveness and survivability? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
153
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 07:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gawen Eadan wrote:
Why should Caldari be selfish in aiding itself with shields and outdoing its proper attack counterpart for combat effectiveness and survivability?
Well, they're selfish because they're greedy corporatists. 
The assault needs to be retooled though, I made a thread about buffing the assault and improving its passives. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
153
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 07:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:First lets look at their stats:
----------------Caldari Assauault: Caldari Logi:
PG:-----------60-----------------------78
CPU:---------300---------------------390
Shield:-------210---------------------180
Armor:-------120----------------------90
SR:-----------25/s---------------------20/s
SRD:---------5s-----------------------4s
SDRD:-------8s-----------------------6s
MS:-----------5-------------------------4.7
SS:-----------7--------------------------6.6
SD:----------15s-----------------------11.5
Stamina:---150-----------------------111.5
S recovery:15/s----------------------12/s
EHP:---------412.5--------------------337.5[/b](75 HP difference) (This was with passives included)
Now then, shield extenders... A logi can fit 5 while an assault can fit 4, that's 363 and 290.4 respectively, this is including the new +10% shield bonus from the skill.
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:373.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP
So [b]373.5 + 445.5 = 819 EHP
819(L) - 702.9(A) = 116.1 HP difference.
Made some mistakes in your math there, guy. I'd be curious to see if you think my solution is any good: here.
|
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
346
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 17:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gawen Eadan wrote:
The logi's are not "OP"
I was mocking the assault QQers |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
346
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 17:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:
Made some mistakes in your math there, guy.
Yeah, I tried going off my memory... that didn't work out lol |
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES
EoN.
189
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Here is the simplest and easiest fix. (And best fix IMO)
Shield recharge: 12hp/s
Give assaults the quicker shield recharge delay (eg from 5 to 4 or whatever it is. You get the idea).
This way, Logi's have the protection they need. The shield tank. But they aren't running around being the ultimate killing machine because if they lose their shields, they have to wait a while until they regen.
Compared to an Assault this makes the Assault suit more viable. Faster than Logi's. Sure maybe less tank but they only have to sit in cover for a short time before moving up.
This way, Logi Bro can still choose a Light Weapon. And they don't have to worry about CPU or PG being nerfed either. |
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bearjew69
Neanderthal Nation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
[quote=NeoWraith Acedia]First lets look at their stats:
----------------Caldari Assauault: Caldari Logi:
PG:-----------60-----------------------78
CPU:---------300---------------------390
Shield:-------210---------------------180
Armor:-------120----------------------90
SR:-----------25/s---------------------20/s
SRD:---------5s-----------------------4s
SDRD:-------8s-----------------------6s
MS:-----------5-------------------------4.7
SS:-----------7--------------------------6.6
SD:----------15s-----------------------11.5
Stamina:---150-----------------------111.5
S recovery:15/s----------------------12/s
EHP:---------412.5--------------------337.5(75 HP difference) (This was with passives included)
So what is a logistics suit? From it's stats, it's a medium suit that's traded in some of it's base speed, health, and stamina for a higher slot count, while also switching it's side arm for equipment so that it can support it's team instead of slaying(Amarr logi excluded).
So is losing the side arm worth the extra equipment? First, let me ask you something. What side arm do most laser users use? A SMG? Bingo. Why? Because their laser is weak in CQC and does less damage to armor, while the SMG is the opposite of that. So what does a siderm do? It allows the player to overcome the inherent weakness of their main weapon, and gives them an emergency weapon incase they run out of ammo. Logis on the other hand exchange that combat adaptability in order to support their teamates. A side arm deals damage to the enemies, a repair tool heals your teammates. A side arm can kill your enemies, a nanite injector can revive your teammates. A siderm gives you more ammo, a nano-hive gives your whole team more ammo.
All in all I'd say the two are pretty well balanced.
Now then, shield extenders... A logi can fit 5 while an assault can fit 4, that's 363 and 290.4 respectively, this is including the new +10% shield bonus from the skill.
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:337.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP
Nothing wrong so far, in fact the logi suit is losing a little since it's slower.
Except... that Caldari logi bonus... 5% + to shield extenders per level, with 5 extenders that leads to 445.5 HP from extenders alone. That's more than assault suits entire base EHP. (1 extender is worth 89.1, X that by 5) (10% shield bonus + 25% Caldari logi bonus = 35% according to Cat Merc)
So 337.5 + 445.5 = 783 EHP
819(L) - 702.9(A) = 80.1 HP difference.
That's a bit too much in my opinion.
My possible solutions:
1. Like Pheonix has said in other threads, change the Caldari bonus to something more support related, or reduce it's current effectiveness so that the HP difference isn't so big.
2: Change the assault class bonus to something useful, my suggestion? 2% weapon damage per level, so that at level 5 it's the equivalent of a permanent complex damage module, this I think would give combat oriented people more of a reason to spec into assault suits instead of logistcs.
Edit: touch their light weapons and I will cut you!
Edit 2: I think that option 2 should be implemented no matter what, the assault bonus sucks for the Gallenete suit, though not as much as the heavy bonus sucks
Edit 3: Updated to include new shield extender bonus from skill.[/q
Im gonna defend the logiBROs on this ok
1.Know for one thing ppl r using logi suits as assult characters not for support.
2.another thing logi where like glass in last build
3. Has anyone herd of FLUX GRENADES LOL i can kill caldari logibro one flux and some bullet i take out proto logi with drangonfly scout with exile no damage mod.
4. Use the logi suit as intended, ummm by the way scrambler rifle will destroy caldiari logi
6. hmmm what else Play with team or get owed by lonewolfing
7. oh ya stop bitching its a game THAT is FREE!!! ummm FREE, ummm FREEE oh yah did i say FREEEEEEE!!!!
If u dont like it play another game n move on. |
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