DUST Search - Simple solution to balancing logistic suits

Skywalker83 wrote:

Card Drunook wrote:

Skywalker83 wrote:

I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting.

Please actually read the post before replying. I'm actually suggesting something that would make it EASIER to fit equipment.

P14GU3, I haven't seen any posts with this idea. Care to post a link? I mainly skim the forums nowadays because of how much noise there is so a lot of stuff gets past me. I've read through a number of logistics balancing threads but I doubt I read ALL of them.

What about shield modules and armor modules. We need those to. I understand that you are saying to make it easier to carry equipment but because some are using the logistics suit only for module slots does not justify a nerf. I also use damage modifiers sometimes for the reason that someone else posted , The point is to kill the other guy more times than they kill you. I can see where it may be frustrating to see some dude running the caldari proto logi suit just for the slots but I use them to help support so that is why I feel your option will not work.

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Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 79	Posted - 2013.05.11 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote Summary: Cut CPU/PG by a lot, give a drastic bonus to fitting equipment. I've seen a number of threads discussing trying to get logistic suits out of the combat role. I see people suggesting a number of rather extreme changes but nobody seems to have thought of the simple solution of cutting back their CPU/PG so they can't fit a ton of prototype modules. To offset the cut just add a bonus to fitting equipment that more than compensates for the CPU/PG cut. For example, you could lower CPU/PG across the board on the logistics suits by 30% then give a bonus to them that reduces the requirements for all equipment modules by 45%. This would make it much more difficult for someone to stack modules to make the current fits we see and would encourage them to use the injectors, nanohives, repair tools, and drop uplinks that I understand to be the whole point of the suits. This wouldn't fundamentally alter the class, would be a simple solution, and wouldn't require the creation of brand new things to offset any changes. Anyways, discuss at you pleasure. I can't believe I came out of lurking mode for this... I need to get some sleep.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.11 05:55:00 - [2] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: Summary: Cut CPU/PG by a lot, give a drastic bonus to fitting equipment. I've seen a number of threads discussing trying to get logistic suits out of the combat role. I see people suggesting a number of rather extreme changes but nobody seems to have thought of the simple solution of cutting back their CPU/PG so they can't fit a ton of prototype modules. To offset the cut just add a bonus to fitting equipment that more than compensates for the CPU/PG cut. For example, you could lower CPU/PG across the board on the logistics suits by 30% then give a bonus to them that reduces the requirements for all equipment modules by 45%. This would make it much more difficult for someone to stack modules to make the current fits we see and would encourage them to use the injectors, nanohives, repair tools, and drop uplinks that I understand to be the whole point of the suits. This wouldn't fundamentally alter the class, would be a simple solution, and wouldn't require the creation of brand new things to offset any changes. Anyways, discuss at you pleasure. I can't believe I came out of lurking mode for this... I need to get some sleep. Nobody? Me and a couple others have posted this in every OP logi thread to date...
Skywalker83 GamersForChrist 6	Posted - 2013.05.11 05:56:00 - [3] - Quote I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting.
Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 79	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:00:00 - [4] - Quote Skywalker83 wrote: I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting. Please actually read the post before replying. I'm actually suggesting something that would make it EASIER to fit equipment. P14GU3, I haven't seen any posts with this idea. Care to post a link? I mainly skim the forums nowadays because of how much noise there is so a lot of stuff gets past me. I've read through a number of logistics balancing threads but I doubt I read ALL of them.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:09:00 - [5] - Quote If I knew how to linky to another thread I would :/
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:14:00 - [6] - Quote No, only the caldari logi is broken. If by "fix" you mean make it less of combat role, then still no. They are in fact combat roles, and not support roles. They are slayers who are good at support, assault suits are slayers who are good at adapting during a gun fight. Logistics players have merely traded some of their slaying versatility so that they could help the team in a different way besides killing. There is no role in Dust whose main purpose is not to kill, except dropships, they suck.
Skywalker83 GamersForChrist 6	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:24:00 - [7] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: Skywalker83 wrote: I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting. Please actually read the post before replying. I'm actually suggesting something that would make it EASIER to fit equipment. P14GU3, I haven't seen any posts with this idea. Care to post a link? I mainly skim the forums nowadays because of how much noise there is so a lot of stuff gets past me. I've read through a number of logistics balancing threads but I doubt I read ALL of them. What about shield modules and armor modules. We need those to. I understand that you are saying to make it easier to carry equipment but because some are using the logistics suit only for module slots does not justify a nerf. I also use damage modifiers sometimes for the reason that someone else posted , The point is to kill the other guy more times than they kill you. I can see where it may be frustrating to see some dude running the caldari proto logi suit just for the slots but I use them to help support so that is why I feel your option will not work.
Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 79	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:24:00 - [8] - Quote P14GU3, right click on the number next to the post and there should be an option like "copy link address." That should copy the URL for the post and allow you to paste it into a reply. NeoWraith Acedia, I'm aware that how most suits are used is to kill. My understanding of how CCP has Designed the suits though is for them to have different roles. And that the Logistics suits are supposed to favor support, not combat. If I'm wrong about that then this thread is pointless and there's no reason for you or anyone else to read or reply to it. I'm going to operate (and I'd appreciate it if anyone else replying to this thread would do the same) under the assumption that the logistics suit is supposed to favor a non-combat specialization.
Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 79	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:26:00 - [9] - Quote Skywalker83 wrote: Card Drunook wrote: Skywalker83 wrote: I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting. Please actually read the post before replying. I'm actually suggesting something that would make it EASIER to fit equipment. P14GU3, I haven't seen any posts with this idea. Care to post a link? I mainly skim the forums nowadays because of how much noise there is so a lot of stuff gets past me. I've read through a number of logistics balancing threads but I doubt I read ALL of them. What about shield modules and armor modules. We need those to. I understand that you are saying to make it easier to carry equipment but because some are using the logistics suit only for module slots does not justify a nerf. I also use damage modifiers sometimes for the reason that someone else posted , The point is to kill the other guy more times than they kill you. I can see where it may be frustrating to see some dude running the caldari proto logi suit just for the slots but I use them to help support so that is why I feel your option will not work. The change I'm talking about wouldn't prevent you from using modules at all, it would prevent you from using AS ADVANCED of modules. I don't think a logistics suit should be able to fit better damage modules than an assault suit, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:33:00 - [10] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: I don't think a logistics suit should be able to fit better damage modules than an assault suit, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. They can't, and if they can then it only manages to even them out, but for the sake of your thread i'll pretend that they're non combat roles. -keep slot layout -raise base HP to that of assault suits - add 1 more equipment slot to all variants - replace light weapons with side arms(that means amarr gets two)

CaoticFox Axis of Chaos 12	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:37:00 - [11] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: Skywalker83 wrote: I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting. Please actually read the post before replying. I'm actually suggesting something that would make it EASIER to fit equipment. P14GU3, I haven't seen any posts with this idea. Care to post a link? I mainly skim the forums nowadays because of how much noise there is so a lot of stuff gets past me. I've read through a number of logistics balancing threads but I doubt I read ALL of them. no to PG/CPU debuff, remove a few HP & LP slots... 7 is rediculous... 5 highs? really... 2-3 is fine!
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 63	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:39:00 - [12] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=785881#post785881 here is just one of the links
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 309	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:42:00 - [13] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: Summary: Cut CPU/PG by a lot, give a drastic bonus to fitting equipment. I've seen a number of threads discussing trying to get logistic suits out of the combat role. I see people suggesting a number of rather extreme changes but nobody seems to have thought of the simple solution of cutting back their CPU/PG so they can't fit a ton of prototype modules. To offset the cut just add a bonus to fitting equipment that more than compensates for the CPU/PG cut. For example, you could lower CPU/PG across the board on the logistics suits by 30% then give a bonus to them that reduces the requirements for all equipment modules by 45%. This would make it much more difficult for someone to stack modules to make the current fits we see and would encourage them to use the injectors, nanohives, repair tools, and drop uplinks that I understand to be the whole point of the suits. This wouldn't fundamentally alter the class, would be a simple solution, and wouldn't require the creation of brand new things to offset any changes. Anyways, discuss at you pleasure. I can't believe I came out of lurking mode for this... I need to get some sleep. Absolutely not, part of the benefit of logi suits is their high cpu/pg which allows them to create versatile builds. The fact that people cant see the logi suit as nothing more than an equipment dispensary or assault replacement is the larger issue. The suit is able to create multiple variations with their fittings which really speaks to their versatility. The real answer is to make the assault suits better or the least give them racial bonuses that make them better. The caldari logi can easily lose its SE efficacy bonus and it be given to the caldari assault.
Skywalker83 GamersForChrist 6	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:43:00 - [14] - Quote how about require all equipment slots to be filled just like the gun slot. Raise the cpu and pg some on equipment items just a little bit( very very little). This may would prevent people from exploiting the suits slot count. Most logi guys always fill the equipment slots.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:46:00 - [15] - Quote CaoticFox wrote: Card Drunook wrote: Skywalker83 wrote: I vote no. I need my cpu and pg for proto hives, injectors, and repair tools. Most logi's run three equipments and the high pg and cpu is needed. And we need the high level modules for shields and armor so we can last on the front line to keep you fighting. Please actually read the post before replying. I'm actually suggesting something that would make it EASIER to fit equipment. P14GU3, I haven't seen any posts with this idea. Care to post a link? I mainly skim the forums nowadays because of how much noise there is so a lot of stuff gets past me. I've read through a number of logistics balancing threads but I doubt I read ALL of them. no to PG/CPU debuff, remove a few HP & LP slots... 7 is rediculous... 5 highs? really... 2-3 is fine! Quote: Assaults: 210 shield 120 armor Logistics: 180 shield 90 armor With passive stats thats 412.5 for Assaults and 337.5 for Logis Now lets include shield extenders, that's 264 and 330 respectively Assault players get 676.5 EHP including their 4 shield extenders Logistic players get 667.5 EHP incding it's 5 extenders That isn't exactly better than the assault suit considering it's also slower. the only thing that ruins this is the Caldari logi bonus which raises it's EHP to 750. Ridiculous that they have to pay more just to tie with the assault suit? Indeed No need for any change, except the Caldari suit.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 63	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:49:00 - [16] - Quote Skywalker83 wrote: how about require all equipment slots to be filled just like the gun slot. Raise the cpu and pg some on equipment items just a little bit( very very little). This may would prevent people from exploiting the suits slot count. Most logi guys always fill the equipment slots. This forces logis even more into the "equipment is my only job" mindset, a simple bonus for equipment, and a slightly lower pg/cpu is all that is needed, if that.. I should still be able to rock a proto MD and a couple complex mods on my proto suit. just not fill the slots with them.
Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 79	Posted - 2013.05.11 06:55:00 - [17] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Card Drunook wrote: I don't think a logistics suit should be able to fit better damage modules than an assault suit, and I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. They can't, and if they can then it only manages to even them out, but for the sake of your thread I'll pretend that they're non combat roles. -keep slot layout -raise base HP to that of assault suits - add 1 more equipment slot to all variants - replace light weapons with side arms(that means amarr gets two) Edit: As for why I said they can't fit "better" modules, lets use the Caldari for this. Assaults: 210 shield 120 armor Logistics: 180 shield 90 armor With passive stats thats 412.5 for Assaults and 337.5 for Logis Now lets include shield extenders, that's 264 and 330 respectively Assault players get 676.5 EHP including their 4 shield extenders Logistic players get 667.5 EHP incding it's 5 extenders That isn't exactly better than the assault suit considering it's also slower. the only thing that ruins this is the Caldari logi bonus which raises it's EHP to 750. I (and I think most of the people complaining) wasn't thinking simple of health stats. A logistics suit can currently be fitted to be as good or better at just about anything that any of the other suits can be fitted for. And let me emphasize the first word in the topic of this thread. I'm not saying this is the ONLY solution that might work. I am saying it's a SIMPLE solution. It can be easily implemented. The Devs could even give it a try and if it didn't work put thing back without much of a hassle. Which a fundamental change like restricting slots, removing things or creating new things would be. A hassle that is.
NeoWraith Acedia Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.05.11 07:04:00 - [18] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: I (and I think most of the people complaining) wasn't thinking simple of health stats. A logistics suit can currently be fitted to be as good or better at just about anything that any of the other suits can be fitted for. Except they are, because that's the only thing that logis can beat them at (and only the caldari logi at that). Logis are inferior all around except for their slot count and equipment. They can become better than assault suits at certain things, such as damage mods, but then their weaknesses become even more apparent. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&p=1 Take a look at that thread, I give the exact stats for the suits, as you can see, the two suits are perfectly balanced(as long as you ignore the caladari logi bonus). Why do people use the Caldari logi? Because of it's health, nothing else. there is no other complaint about logis.
Card Drunook DoC Deck of Contractors 79	Posted - 2013.05.11 07:18:00 - [19] - Quote NeoWraith Acedia wrote: Card Drunook wrote: I (and I think most of the people complaining) wasn't thinking simple of health stats. A logistics suit can currently be fitted to be as good or better at just about anything that any of the other suits can be fitted for. Except they are, because that's the only thing that logis can beat them at (and only the caldari logi at that). Logis are inferior all around except for their slot count and equipment. They can become better than assault suits at certain things, such as damage mods, but then their weaknesses(such as lower base health) become even more apparent. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75780&p=1 Take a look at that thread, I give the exact stats for the suits, as you can see, the two suits are perfectly balanced(as long as you ignore the caladari logi bonus). Why do people use the Caldari logi? Because of it's health, nothing else. There is no other complaint about logis. Obviously you've never been in a scout suit and had a logistics suit outrun you while both of you are sprinting. Believe it or not there are stats other than health and damage in this game. And I just realized how sarcastic I'm starting to get so I really am going to go to bed now. I'll check up on the thread again after I get some sleep.


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