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DudeMcGuy 06
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.05.11 00:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Disclaimer: I do not run Logistics suits.
(I posted part of this before in another thread, but it was buried before anyone could respond. )
So most players problem with the Caldari Logi is that many people are playing it as an assault+1 class. These "Killer Bees" are making the dedicated Logi players especially mad.
So this issue has been discussed in numerous threads over the past few days and has brought about discussions of "nerfing" the logi suits. Everything from limiting the Logi's to only side arms, to reducing slot count, etc has been proposed.
I say hold your horses, lets think about this rationally before we break out the nerf hammer. We want to "fix" the Caldari Logi, which if I'm not mistaken means make the suit fill a Logi's role and not an assault+1, but at the same time do not change the current logi role. This means the "only sidearms" proposal is out the window, because it changes how a current logi would be forced to play.
My solution is this: What if the Logi's could only fill their high slots (however many they have) with a maximum of 3 shield extenders?
Meaning a Caldari Logi would have a base EHP of 337.5 (With passives maxed: 180 x 1.25 + 90 x 1.25) plus 297 extra shield (Three extenders with max role bonus and max extender bonus: 66 x 3 x 1.50) for a total of 634.5 HP. This number is slightly less than a Caldari assault suit with the same 3 complex shield extenders and passives maxed (660 EHP).
This way the Caldari assault suit becomes the better shield tanker, (since it could put on up to 4 extenders) which combined with it's better speed and a sidearm would make it more suited for front line combat then the Logistics version (as it should be in the first place).
This also should not really affect people who run Logi as an actual support role as the vast majority of them do not put on more than 3 shield extenders anyway. (since they need the CPU/PG for better support equipment).
Now granted, someone who still wants to play Caldari Logi as an assault+1 suit could stack armor plates on the four low slots (dual tanking), but then they would be reducing their speed even more, and the assault could do the same thing and still be faster with a side arm.
With this solution, none of the Logi's support functions are effected (They can use the extra 2 high slots for other things) and the assault variant is the better choice for dedicated front-line combat. (As it should be anyway).
So what does everyone think? Is this a solution to the "Killer bees" problem? What do the dedicated Logi's think?
*Any response from CCP or CPM would be greatly appreciated* Thanks. |
Blamejudg3s KEQ
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
19
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
But then we would put damage mods and the QQ will continue
Mathematically, your ideal is logical.
What you need to think is:
Why is it overpowered?
And is it overpowered?
We do not know until the scrambler rifle is released.
But if you want to use math,
Make the Duvolle take 130 CPU on logis (match all accordingly)
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DudeMcGuy 06
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
^ Stacking five damage mods on a logi doesn't give you enough EHP to face assaults that have say 2-3 extenders and 1-2 damage mods. (Assuming the stacking penalty for the damage mods is actually working properly).
Stacking 2 damage mods and 3 extenders could still be viable for the "Killer bee", but is that one extra damage mod worth less EHP, less speed, and no sidearm? I don't believe so, and smart assault players would gravitate away from the Caldari Logi I believe. Leaving the Caldari Logi to be used how it is meant to be played again, as support. |
Phoenix Arakyd
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 01:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Remove tanky bonuses and replace them with a support bonuses tailored for each race. /thread. |
DudeMcGuy 06
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
^Care to elaborate? What bonus would you give the Caldari Logi instead? |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
237
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I hate to pick on you, but CPM/DEVs please respond! In your post title? Lol |
Kleanur Guy
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
222
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Posted - 2013.05.11 01:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
DudeMcGuy 06 wrote:^Care to elaborate? What bonus would you give the Caldari Logi instead?
Your suggested solution is over complicated, and is far from consistent across the board. I believe this kind of idea would be hard and ANNOYING to code in to the game simply because a suit is being abused this way. A simple change of their bonus would be far better to solve our problems. Im fine with 66hp extenders, everyone can use them, but 89hp extenders is way too much on a suit with 5 high slots. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
642
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 01:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Blamejudg3s KEQ wrote:But then we would put damage mods and the QQ will continue
Mathematically, your ideal is logical.
What you need to think is:
Why is it overpowered?
And is it overpowered?
We do not know until the scrambler rifle is released.
But if you want to use math,
Make the Duvolle take 130 CPU on logis (match all accordingly)
Logi isn't overpowered, everything else is underpowered and because of the announced HMG double nerf most of the heavies went logi and found out how effective of a slayer it is. Logi is the FotM right now because everything else has been hit with the nerf bat. When will we draw the line on nerfing. Look at how ****ed up Dust is right now after 2 years of nerfing. Can we try something else for once. Does every other suit class like their suit bonuses enough for the logi to get nerfed, or do you want your respective suit. (and weapon) to be buffed up to compensate? Think about it.
P.S.
I'm a Minmatar logi and I'm defending the caldari. Keep that in mind.
P.P.S.
Also, I want to see all the Caldari QQ once the scrambler rifle is added too. |
Phoenix Arakyd
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
69
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
DudeMcGuy 06 wrote:^Care to elaborate? What bonus would you give the Caldari Logi instead?
Any kind of support role bonus, ex:
Minmatar: hacking speed
Amarr: increased nanite clusters per level in nanohives
Gallente: remote armor rep repair bonus
Caldari: more injections in nanite injectors |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
300
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Phoenix Arakyd wrote:
Caldari: more injections in nanite injectors
I don't think there is a limit 
but replacing the shield bonus with a more logistics related bonus would work as well. |
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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
305
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Posted - 2013.05.11 02:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Blamejudg3s KEQ wrote:But then we would put damage mods and the QQ will continue
Mathematically, your ideal is logical.
What you need to think is:
Why is it overpowered?
And is it overpowered?
We do not know until the scrambler rifle is released.
But if you want to use math,
Make the Duvolle take 130 CPU on logis (match all accordingly)
Logi isn't overpowered, everything else is underpowered and because of the announced HMG double nerf most of the heavies went logi and found out how effective of a slayer it is. Logi is the FotM right now because everything else has been hit with the nerf bat. When will we draw the line on nerfing. Look at how ****ed up Dust is right now after 2 years of nerfing. Can we try something else for once. Does every other suit class like their suit bonuses enough for the logi to get nerfed, or do you want your respective suit. (and weapon) to be buffed up to compensate? Think about it. P.S. I'm a Minmatar logi and I'm defending the caldari. Keep that in mind. P.P.S. Also, I want to see all the Caldari QQ once the scrambler rifle is added too.
Im gonna return the spirit of cooperation and say despite our difference Cosgar and i are in full agreement on this issue. The logi is like the TAC AR in this build. It really isnt OP its just everything else is terrible by comparison. Bring the other suits up to par in a similar manner they did to weapons(well more targeted to the other suits, logis IMO are perfect as is). There simply is no incentive to fit the other suits because the Logi is "good enough". |
DudeMcGuy 06
L.O.T.I.S.
RISE of LEGION
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
You all make good suggestions. Changing the role bonus would be a simpler solution. But if for some reason CCP decides NOT to change the Caldari Logi's racial bonus (although I think they should), I think my solution is viable and not too complicated. It's a simple mathematical solution actually.
I don't think "Invalid fitting: Too many shield extenders." would be too difficult to implement.
Also, "CPM/Dev's please read" in the title was meant to get people to read the thread and *maybe* get that little DEV tick by the thread. (Sure, I was desperate) Because those seem to be the only threads that attract useful information and feedback for CCP.
But this thread has had decent discussion without it.
Is there anyone who thinks that the role bonus is good as is? (assuming CCP has no plans to change other suits racial bonuses) |
Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
In a week all of us Caldari logis will be crying about how OP the scrambler rifle is.
I almost feel like the Devs are smirking about this. This suit was the obvious choice.
If you don't like my suit, spec into the Scrambler rifle and pack fluxes. |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 03:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
The only rational change I see are twofold.
First the assualt and heavy classes need to be made more desireable. Give the assualt and sentinal roles +2% dmg increase to light and heavy weapons respectively.
If that is not enough, the role bonus for logistics need to be switched to a decrease for pg/cpu equipment costs, and the pg/cpu of the logistics suits lowered, reducing the amount of complex mods used in the high/low slots. Caldari then get a recharge bonus, gallente get rep bonus, amarr and mini stay the same. |
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