DUST Search - 5-14, Last chance to respec out of vehicles and INTO: Forge guns

All Channels

General Discussions

5-14, Last chance to respec out of vehicles and INTO: Forge guns

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2013.05.11 04:15:00 - [1] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Not sure if trolling.... Forge gunning has been one of my FAVORITE pass times in this game, even when I started playing last June. It is not easy. It is not difficult. It just is. Of course I can one shot infantry, why the hell wouldn't I be able to? IT'S A HANDHELD RAILGUN You're just pointing out things that it can/should do and acting as if it's "lulz OP nubscrubbery." No. It's a very high damage weapon with a very low RoF and if you catch a heavy with one (by himself) and he one shots you with it, he's either really good and knows what he's doing or he just got lucky. One instance happened a few nights ago when I was on a tower, forge gunning and Brush Master flew a drop ship (which I had been trying the whole damn match to shoot down) to kill me for being annoying. He and I danced around a bit until I waited (and prayed) that when I released my charge it would hit him, and it did. I'm not even going to pretend it was l337 skillzorz that got me that kill, it was luck. So STFU and quit crying. Sorry, but I completely disagree. Forge gun is easy to use and the most effective weapon vs both vehicles AND infantry.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2013.05.11 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Polish Hammer wrote: Not sure if trolling.... Forge gunning has been one of my FAVORITE pass times in this game, even when I started playing last June. It is not easy. It is not difficult. It just is. Of course I can one shot infantry, why the hell wouldn't I be able to? IT'S A HANDHELD RAILGUN You're just pointing out things that it can/should do and acting as if it's "lulz OP nubscrubbery." No. It's a very high damage weapon with a very low RoF and if you catch a heavy with one (by himself) and he one shots you with it, he's either really good and knows what he's doing or he just got lucky. One instance happened a few nights ago when I was on a tower, forge gunning and Brush Master flew a drop ship (which I had been trying the whole damn match to shoot down) to kill me for being annoying. He and I danced around a bit until I waited (and prayed) that when I released my charge it would hit him, and it did. I'm not even going to pretend it was l337 skillzorz that got me that kill, it was luck. So STFU and quit crying. Sorry, but I completely disagree. Forge gun is easy to use and the most effective weapon vs both vehicles AND infantry. And you go 20/0 every time you use a FG all match as well right....Hell 20/0 you are so good you probably just kill everyone with your FG and you don't even need teammates. Right? I mean because it is so easy to use, and when the other team rushes you your FG just obliterates them all. RIGHT? STFU. Yes. Maybe not exactly 20/0 every match, but it's particularly easy to get a 5+ KDR average with a forge gun. By far the most powerful and effective overall weapon in the game. Anyone who's actually spent some time with the thing should quickly realize how easy it is to use. Point, click, dead.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2013.05.11 21:58:00 - [3] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Yes. Maybe not exactly 20/0 every match, but it's particularly easy to get a 5+ KDR average with a forge gun. By far the most powerful and effective overall weapon in the game. Anyone who's actually spent some time with the thing should quickly realize how easy it is to use. Point, click, dead. Ok then, everyone go FG on the 14th then we can have FG514. Why not, I mean it is the best weapon in the game right. Then when one guy with an AR kills your entire team please make another ARs are OP thread. Frankly, I find the thing to be WAY too OP to be fun to use. Damn thing is easy mode.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2013.05.11 22:01:00 - [4] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: if you claim there's a forge gun problem please post evidence in the form of math. Arbitrary statements and vague accusations aren't exactly going to earn points here. the math is in the low SP investment cost and low ISK cost of running a forge gun and the 10 million SP and 1-2 million ISK cost for running a ship. Which can be easily taken out by less than proto AV forge, and totally denied the map by some free or militia fits. militia fg = no ds below 10,000 feet. Lets also realize the damage they can do comes out of nowhere and leaves you either dead or burning and running to dodge the next 3 that are already lined up. Generally only takes two hits and the first one is a freebee. Second is virtually as easy. Now for a weapon that can do all this, it also can obliterate any proto ground suit in one hit so it's not a detriment to the team that people are fielding them. If anything it puts the ball in the pocket for an easy victory. So what you are saying is I payed a million ISK and put SP into a ship to fly so I should own the map and be a god in the sky. Get bent. Why does it make sense for a 1 Mil+ ISK vehicle that requires MILLIONS of SP to even use to be easier to destroy than militia dropsuits?
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2013.05.11 23:58:00 - [5] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Why does it make sense for a 1 Mil+ ISK vehicle that requires MILLIONS of SP to even use to be easier to destroy than militia dropsuits? Why is a ship that costs 2 million able to destroy a ships worth 250 million? Isn't that the argument you want to make? We have seen it thousands of time over. Just because you put SP and ISK into something doesn't mean that it should be invincible and rule the battlefield. no, you are completely missing the point. As it stands, dropships have less relative HPs than militia scout suits, it's absurd.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 9	Posted - 2013.05.12 00:43:00 - [6] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Schalac 17 wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Why does it make sense for a 1 Mil+ ISK vehicle that requires MILLIONS of SP to even use to be easier to destroy than militia dropsuits? Why is a ship that costs 2 million able to destroy a ships worth 250 million? Isn't that the argument you want to make? We have seen it thousands of time over. Just because you put SP and ISK into something doesn't mean that it should be invincible and rule the battlefield. no, you are completely missing the point. As it stands, dropships have less relative HPs than militia scout suits, it's absurd. You can practically kill a scout suit with splash damage if they don't fit any tank mods. How is that less relative HPs? And just below you agree that dropships can be OHKed "if they don't fit any tank mods". It's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Quote: This argument is getting dumb. I have seen tanks and dropships shrug off a few FG blasts. I have also seen tanks and dropships get one-shot from my 9K330. The difference is that some people realize that their vehicles need a proper tank fitted and others do not. You can't nerf stupid, and that is what you are complaining about. Yeah, I've been flying dropships for a long time now, I'm aware that you have to squeek as much HP as possible on a dropship to survive more than a single forge gun shot. You make a lot of strawman and ad hominem attacks, but I don't really see you addressing the points being brought up. The forge gun is more powerful than a sniper rifle, has basically the same range, SPLASH damage, OHKs basically all infantry, and Two Shots basically all infantry with splash damage, can 1 or 2 shot almost all vehicles (and the first shot is a freebie since there's no way to know if someone, somewhere, can see you with their forge gun and is about to take that first shot), and can destroy most other vehicles in under 5 seconds. I get that you use and enjoy the forge gun, of course you do, it's ridiculously powerful in comparison to every other weapon in the game. It's equally useful vs. infantry and vehicles if you're an even halfway decent shot. I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but if you're arguing that forge guns aren't OP/easy mode, you're either terrible at FPS or you haven't used them.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 19	Posted - 2013.05.12 07:45:00 - [7] - Quote So, your argument is that forge guns aren't OP because they only OHK infantry and dropships can probably survive one shot? That's really your idea of a "balanced weapon?"
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 00:45:00 - [8] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: So, your argument is that forge guns aren't OP because they only OHK infantry and dropships can probably survive one shot? That's really your idea of a "balanced weapon?" If your only argument for the forge gun being OP is that it OHKs dropsuits, then you're not really giving a convincing argument. Also, they don't OHK dropships. Have you ever even used one? Of course I have. They DO OHK dropships, I've done it MANY times. The average good dropship has between 3000-4000 HP. A "cheap" dropship generally has around 2500. The last 500 or so is mostly useless though because once you drop into that area you've got about 5 seconds before you lose it all to burning damage. A standard breach FG with only the most bare minimum requirements does approximately 2300 dmg. That's enough to OHK all but the most expensive dropships. A std FG with maxed proficiency and a couple dmg mods does about 3100 dmg, which will put almost any dropship on the field into burning damage in a single shot as well, effectively OHKing a 1.5 million ISK piece of gear. A properly fit proto forge can OHK every single dropship in the game with ease. If you think that OHKing infantry is my "only argument," then you haven't been paying attention. Honestly, it seems like you are the one who hasn't actually used forge guns or dropships.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:14:00 - [9] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Polish Hammer wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: So, your argument is that forge guns aren't OP because they only OHK infantry and dropships can probably survive one shot? That's really your idea of a "balanced weapon?" If your only argument for the forge gun being OP is that it OHKs dropsuits, then you're not really giving a convincing argument. Also, they don't OHK dropships. Have you ever even used one? Of course I have. They DO OHK dropships, I've done it MANY times. The average good dropship has between 3000-4000 HP. A "cheap" dropship generally has around 2500. The last 500 or so is mostly useless though because once you drop into that area you've got about 5 seconds before you lose it all to burning damage. A standard breach FG with only the most bare minimum requirements does approximately 2300 dmg. That's enough to OHK all but the most expensive dropships. A std FG with maxed proficiency and a couple dmg mods does about 3100 dmg, which will put almost any dropship on the field into burning damage in a single shot as well, effectively OHKing a 1.5 million ISK piece of gear. A properly fit proto forge can OHK every single dropship in the game with ease. If you think that OHKing infantry is my "only argument," then you haven't been paying attention. Honestly, it seems like you are the one who hasn't actually used forge guns or dropships. I don't want to come off as arrogant but there are a few people that can attest to me having used forge guns for almost the entirety of my time playing this. Then I must assume you are either being dishonest or willfully ignorant.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:23:00 - [10] - Quote Yeva Kalsani wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but if you're arguing that forge guns aren't OP/easy mode, you're either terrible at FPS or you haven't used them. If that was true, then the majority would be running FG fits, all the time. Pull the other one. They are boring to use and few people use vehicles because forge guns are so powerful. So, they don't really have much to shoot at.

ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:29:00 - [11] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Yeva Kalsani wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but if you're arguing that forge guns aren't OP/easy mode, you're either terrible at FPS or you haven't used them. If that was true, then the majority would be running FG fits, all the time. Pull the other one. They are boring to use and few people use vehicles because forge guns are so powerful. So, they don't really have much to shoot at. I apologize, I don't feel that we're using the same idea of what "OP" mean Reference post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=782741#post782741 "Final Point - For something to be OP, it must be out competing the other items. It must be dominating in terms of numbers, thus reducing the complexity and diversity of the game, thus making the game less desirable" No, I think we have the same definition. It's just that they are so over the top that just the fact that they exist has almost entirely negated the use of vehicles. They dominate so hard that they have driven their opposition into extinction.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:35:00 - [12] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Polish Hammer wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: So, your argument is that forge guns aren't OP because they only OHK infantry and dropships can probably survive one shot? That's really your idea of a "balanced weapon?" If your only argument for the forge gun being OP is that it OHKs dropsuits, then you're not really giving a convincing argument. Also, they don't OHK dropships. Have you ever even used one? Of course I have. They DO OHK dropships, I've done it MANY times. The average good dropship has between 3000-4000 HP. A "cheap" dropship generally has around 2500. The last 500 or so is mostly useless though because once you drop into that area you've got about 5 seconds before you lose it all to burning damage. A standard breach FG with only the most bare minimum requirements does approximately 2300 dmg. That's enough to OHK all but the most expensive dropships. A std FG with maxed proficiency and a couple dmg mods does about 3100 dmg, which will put almost any dropship on the field into burning damage in a single shot as well, effectively OHKing a 1.5 million ISK piece of gear. A properly fit proto forge can OHK every single dropship in the game with ease. If you think that OHKing infantry is my "only argument," then you haven't been paying attention. Honestly, it seems like you are the one who hasn't actually used forge guns or dropships. show ur math i think ur off. proto is like 1600. 2 complex damage mods is less than 20 % profiency is 15% 1600(its abit more) x 0.35(rounding up) 560 560 +1600= 2160 proto damage forgive my estimates but thats close. there is no heavy suit that can hold more than 2 hi power mods. only heavies can hold FG. just wait till tomorrow when everyone can run viable AV. you will be here posting more numbers I think you're talking about assault forge guns, and are taking into account the 10% buff they got last week?
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 01:47:00 - [13] - Quote Yeva Kalsani wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Yeva Kalsani wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but if you're arguing that forge guns aren't OP/easy mode, you're either terrible at FPS or you haven't used them. If that was true, then the majority would be running FG fits, all the time. Pull the other one. They are boring to use and few people use vehicles because forge guns are so powerful. So, they don't really have much to shoot at. You're suggesting that the majority of DUST players would voluntarily forego "easy mode," and that's why we don't see people running heavy/FG fittings most of the time. Riiiiiight... No, again, there's nothing to shoot at because they've rendered vehicles almost entirely obsolete. For infantry, they are simply "average."
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 28	Posted - 2013.05.14 02:38:00 - [14] - Quote Schalac 17 wrote: Shoot a logi LAV with your all powerful FG ALM1GHTY B44L R00. See how well that works out for you. Shoot a well tanked armor tank with your FG ALM1GHTY B44L R00. See how well that works out for you. Shoot a dropship that has a skilled pilot and actual tank mods with your FG ALM1GHTY B44L R00. See how well that works out for you. Just because your weak unskilled and untanked DS is getting worked doesn't mean all of them are. Now go away this topic is dead. Do you actually read threads before responding? I've been on both sides of these scenarios hundreds of time, in each the outcome is the same: they explode. edit: tbf, well tanked HAVs don't immediately explode. Those require 2 more shots usually.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 29	Posted - 2013.05.14 03:40:00 - [15] - Quote Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: I just will smile and leave this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMfyiDuqvCc Yup. Thanks for the demonstration.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 38	Posted - 2013.05.14 21:22:00 - [16] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote: Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: I just will smile and leave this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMfyiDuqvCc Yup. Thanks for the demonstration. I'm sorry, but this lends nothing to your argument. Specter is (as demonstrated here) a skilled player. I'm not denying that. What I am denying though is that there is an over abundance of players using the forge gun in such an aggressive manner that would warrant "nerfing," thus not damaging diversity. "Final Point - For something to be OP, it must be out competing the other items. It must be dominating in terms of numbers, thus reducing the complexity and diversity of the game, thus making the game less desirable" Again, I brought this up because you have still failed to produce any relevant evidence showing the quote statement above. I still see plenty of tanks brought out as well as dropships being brought out during this build and even before in Chromosome. Also, the video evidence doesn't translate to this build. The forge guns were tweaked slightly and the splash damage radius is not nearly what it was in Chromosome. Here's the problem. Once you spend all that SP on vehicles, your choices are pretty much use the vehicles and die constantly, or use infantry and die constantly. Right now, we all have 100s of millions of ISK, so might as well continue dying in the stuff you skilled into. The interesting thing about Specter's video, is it shows how easily a halfway decent player can be competitive against infantry AND trash vehicles with ease. There's no balance there, because you can do it all with that single weapon. Why skill into HMG when you can do almost as well with a forge gun AND completely negate all enemy vehicle usage? Why use a swarm launcher when you can put those points into Forge Gun and have an infantry weapon that's better than a shotgun AND do way more damage to vehicles as well. I just don't know how you can play with either a forge gun or a dropship and not come to the conclusion that something is WAY out of whack. I don't even know how to debate with you about it, because your position seems so unfounded. It's never fun to be OHK'd, especially in a 1 Mil ISK piece of equipment, by a 50k ISK piece of equipment, with no warning, no reprisal, no chance to do anything about it, and knowing the guy with the 50k ISK weapon didn't even have to plan ahead or use any strategy because the weapon is also perfectly viable against infantry as well. It's just plain old not fun, and requires less skill and foresight than any other weapon on the field. You point, you pull the trigger, things die. There's nothing particularly impressive about specter's video, he's just pointing the gun at things and watching them disintegrate. There's no way for anyone that he's shooting to even compete because he's got a gun that OHKs EVERYTHING.
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 38	Posted - 2013.05.14 21:45:00 - [17] - Quote Polish Hammer wrote: Taken from Dusts own site (this is similar, if not the same as what is in the game description) " the Forge Gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s, enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems." My argument comes from a relatively simple question, based off of the weapons description: "What in the hell do you expect it to do?" You understand that it's not real, right? CCP made that description up. You don't balance a game based on a description written by one guy a year and a half ago. The description can be changed.