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POCKPICKETER
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
11
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Found this on the forum https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73100&p=10
CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance Likes received: 72 #184Posted: 2013.05.08 10:56 | Report Like 34 I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG.
Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!)
Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes.
- The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry. - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe.
The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.
Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better.
Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages! |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1451
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
POCKPICKETER wrote:Found this on the forum https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73100&p=10CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance Likes received: 72 #184Posted: 2013.05.08 10:56 | Report Like 34 I don't hate the Heavies. Or the HMG. Well, actually, I hate everyone on the planet equally so technically I guess that means I hate no-one (we're all snowflakes!) Good to see some intelligent debate and solid points in this thread, so thanks for that! Just wanted to jump in an explain the thinking behind some of the recent changes. - The SS skill had to go. It should never have been there in the first place as it pushed all weapons well beyond their intended ranges and with more racial variants coming into the game (rail rifle, combat rifle etc.) it was more important than ever to have cleaner range profiles for all weaponry. - The Sentinel was designed primarily as a point defense role. His speed and slow turn rate make him unsuitable for frontline combat. His presence should make anyone think twice before approaching a position. I'm not sure but it seems to me that a lot of the complaints about the ineffectiveness of the HMG stem from the fact that people want to use it to lead the charge into enemy territory. The HMG is not well suited for use in open areas but it comes into its own when used in outposts where targets are confined to narrow spaces. And at close range, the HMG is still very effective, I believe. The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. Other smaller tweaks like lessening kick (which gets pretty excessive as the weapon nears its heat threshold) and a modest improvement in how quickly the weapon reaches optimal dispersion should make it feel much better. Anyway, thanks for the ten-page thread, guys. I look forward to the next ten pages! SEE?!
"CCP doesn't listen or care about us!"
Let this be a lesson to you, doomsayers. |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
37
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Or MD's...swarms... snipers.. lasers..
Only thing that works is AR.. I think the writing is on the wall |
Peter Hanther
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
43
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Smoky The Bear wrote:Or MD's...swarms... snipers.. lasers..
Only thing that works is AR.. I think the writing is on the wall
The writing says "Games as service go through many revisions and updates as they are fine tuned"
Odd graffiti there. Oh I missed a part "Mass Drivers are actually fun as hell in this build" |
steadyhand amarr
NW WARLORDS
502
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Above md while weaker still affective. Snipers still affective but need more skill swarms are fine. Lasers got a much needed range nerf. Stop jumping on the bandwagon and try being helpful |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
37
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Above md while weaker still affective. Snipers still affective but need more skill swarms are fine. Lasers got a much needed range nerf. Stop jumping on the bandwagon and try being helpful
Stop smoochin booty and LISTEN to the real players .... |
Nstomper
The Sangheli
391
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
thought this was gonna be a rage thread |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1458
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Smoky The Bear wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Above md while weaker still affective. Snipers still affective but need more skill swarms are fine. Lasers got a much needed range nerf. Stop jumping on the bandwagon and try being helpful Stop smoochin booty and LISTEN to the real players .... You mean the "real" players who are all saying the game is **** because suddenly they can't run around shitting on everyone with their maxed out gear like in the last build?
That because they have to relearn the new mechanics just like the rest of us the game now sucks?
Yeah, I'll really listen to them. |
Raze galder
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
36
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
so is he raging on ccp or praising them ? |
steadyhand amarr
NW WARLORDS
504
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Smoky The Bear wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Above md while weaker still affective. Snipers still affective but need more skill swarms are fine. Lasers got a much needed range nerf. Stop jumping on the bandwagon and try being helpful Stop smoochin booty and LISTEN to the real players .... Rofol and who would they be |
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Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
441
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Have a +1, sir.
I have faith in CCP because they rarely fail to listen to their playerbase and to criticism, unlike companies such as EA, Activision, and even small F2P games companies.
Though people may not realise it, they actually do come on forums and read the feedback, but your need for validation isn't really helping them in the long term. They do have other work that needs doing. |
Dis Cord
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
70
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is a band aid on the heart attack that is "Range" in this game. (italics added)
CCP Remnant wrote:The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.
So let's get this straight. CCP thinks the effective range on a "Heavy Machine Gun" is just over half a football field.
WTF is CCP talking about??? Their usage of a hard range cap as a metric for weapon differentiation has caused this ridiculous scenario we find ourselves in right now.
What CCP Remnant proposes is no fix. A fundamental re-thinking of range in DUST needs to be undertaken. |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
110
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dis Cord wrote:This is a band aid on the heart attack that is "Range" in this game. (italics added) CCP Remnant wrote:The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. So let's get this straight. CCP thinks the effective range on a "Heavy Machine Gun" is just over half a football field. WTF is CCP talking about??? Their usage of a hard range cap as a metric for weapon differentiation has caused this ridiculous scenario we find ourselves in right now. What CCP Remnant proposes is no fix. A fundamental re-thinking of range in DUST needs to be undertaken. I agree - there's nothing here for heavies to really rejoice about.
A little extra range will be great - but both Remn and Wolfman are more interested in listening to Pub stomp data then there vets. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
622
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Smoky The Bear wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Above md while weaker still affective. Snipers still affective but need more skill swarms are fine. Lasers got a much needed range nerf. Stop jumping on the bandwagon and try being helpful Stop smoochin booty and LISTEN to the real players ....
who are you? |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
38
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:Smoky The Bear wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Above md while weaker still affective. Snipers still affective but need more skill swarms are fine. Lasers got a much needed range nerf. Stop jumping on the bandwagon and try being helpful Stop smoochin booty and LISTEN to the real players .... who are you?
I might be your daddy.. |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
38
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP wrote:This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).
This is the best news I've heard. |
Dis Cord
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
74
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:CCP wrote:This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm). This is the best news I've heard.
...but it's only half the problem.
Effective Ranges need to be increased substantially across the board. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens Orion Empire
164
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
This means that the forums are going to be peaceful again ? About time, all this QQing was getting boring. |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
38
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dis Cord wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:CCP wrote:This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm). This is the best news I've heard. ...but it's only half the problem. Effective Ranges need to be increased substantially across the board.
Agreed. But the ability to at least harass or suppress enemies at mid-long range with an AR will be a welcome improvement. That being said, this should have been in a long time ago. |
POCKPICKETER
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
14
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Posted - 2013.05.09 20:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:Dis Cord wrote:RedRebelCork wrote:CCP wrote:This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm). This is the best news I've heard. ...but it's only half the problem. Effective Ranges need to be increased substantially across the board. Agreed. But the ability to at least harass or suppress enemies at mid-long range with an AR will be a welcome improvement. That being said, this should have been in a long time ago.
I agree, since Uprising has started there are only 2 ways of playing
1. Shotgun distance when firing with HMG
2. Get a prototype HMG and hope for the best
I get 25 assists a game because 1 of my 400 bullets hit someone so I get points for "helping" |
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Mary Sedillo
XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S
55
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Posted - 2013.05.09 20:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dis Cord wrote:This is a band aid on the heart attack that is "Range" in this game. (italics added) CCP Remnant wrote:The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. So let's get this straight. CCP thinks the effective range on a "Heavy Machine Gun" is just over half a football field. WTF is CCP talking about??? Their usage of a hard range cap as a metric for weapon differentiation has caused this ridiculous scenario we find ourselves in right now. What CCP Remnant proposes is no fix. A fundamental re-thinking of range in DUST needs to be undertaken.
Your role is not to lead the charge. Don't like your role? Specialize into a different suit. Want to be a slayer? Go assault. Want to be long range support? Go with a sniper rifle + whatever suit. Like to repair people? Pick up a logisuit or a repair tool+anything. CCP should not hold your hand as you play. You pick up the HMG and heavy and you need to think of your role. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1462
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 21:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dis Cord wrote:This is a band aid on the heart attack that is "Range" in this game. (italics added) CCP Remnant wrote:The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. So let's get this straight. CCP thinks the effective range on a "Heavy Machine Gun" is just over half a football field. WTF is CCP talking about??? Their usage of a hard range cap as a metric for weapon differentiation has caused this ridiculous scenario we find ourselves in right now. What CCP Remnant proposes is no fix. A fundamental re-thinking of range in DUST needs to be undertaken. So you definitely didn't read the part where he said the hard-caps are coming off ALL the weapons. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
220
|
Posted - 2013.05.09 21:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think a side note is important.
If you really have and describe an issue, instead of having a ****-fit because you are a whiny brat, then CCP will take note as it becomes apparent.
It helps if you can describe the issue and not resort to blaming CCP and the devs for all the ills in the world as I think they tend to skip threads like that. |
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