DUST Search - [Feedback/Request] Turrets

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Small Railguns need to not be nerfed against installations any more. Not 100% sure if that was improved in the last hotfix, but they weren't working right after Uprising first showed up. Also, Railguns in general need to be instant-hit. The projectiles are supposed to travel at 7000 m/s. If that's true, then the shots that take half a second to reach the target are travelling 3.5 km, and I'm pretty sure clones aren't taller than Gundams.

Missile turrets need their splash radius back, but I VERY STRONGLY disagree with tripling their range. Why? Because Dropships aren't the only vehicles in the game. Triple range means triple the direct-fire range of ground-based vehicles. LAVs hitting from across the map is broken. Super Sniper Missile Tanks making a comeback wouldn't be a good thing.

What I WOULDN'T object to is a 50% base range increase on missiles, AND a 50% bonus to range on all weapons mounted on Dropships. Or they could tie it to the basic Dorpship skill, 10% range increase per level. Or do both, have a 25% range increase, and a skill that gives +5% per level. That would introduce stacking and make the multiplier go a little higher than a 50% increase.

Splash definitely needs an increase, but I'd say try it with 20 - 30% first, see how it goes, THEN look at maybe increasing it. The problems with CCP nerfing things are because they change EVERYTHING in a weapon's stats all at once (reduce direct damage, reduce splash damage, reduce splash radius, reduce range, increase scatter), and changing everything at once means you don't get to measure how big each individual change was. Suggesting significant changes to more than one aspect of a weapon will just swing it too far the other way and get it beaten down by the nerf hammer again.

Missiles
+range (50%)
+splash (20%)

Dropships
+range (up to ~50% with a skill to train)

Two changes, one significant, one smaller.

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Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.05.09 02:55:00 - [1] - Quote Before I go into turrets I think I will go over the history so CCP gets some insight on what worked through out the past and what did not. From the begining of testing missile turrets where number one choice. Not because they where OP they just where the only turret that worked. You put a blaster or a rail on you could spend all day laying into a guy or in the rails case missing because any movement from the vehicle throw off the shot. Missiles had great ballancing going into the precursor build. They did not slaughter people. But with direct hits you could one hit lower health infantry and it would take 2-4 shots at the feet or near the person to kill them. It was a great turret and performed well in a good players hand when they where a dropship gunner. Missiles become OP going into the codex build. I think CCP needs to look at this part the most. Why is because missiles went from balanced to broken. Why was this? Well the introduction of passive skills which gave a higher percentage damage boost then what they where suppose to and also damage mods. CCP nerfs missiles into the ground instead of fixing the problem at hand that was the passive skills and damage mods. Blaster become more useful because CCP improved them in the chromosome build. Still not as useful as they need to be. This build CCP has fixed the problems that both the damage mods and passive skills created on missile turrets. Problem is they are leaving missile turrets in there nerfed state with very low splash radius meaning only direct shots or hitting directly on the feet provides damage. Which is hard to do when in a moving vehicle. Blasters and rails I still need to test in this build MISSILES What needs to be done with missiles. I personally think that all missiles accross the board need a 50% increase in splash radius. Range needs to be tripled. So it is hitting out at the same range that AV can hit dropships. A forge gunner has huge advantage over dropships even when you get the drop on him. I feel this will bring missiles back to a great dropship weapon. Allowing good pilots/gunners to actually use the assult dropship as a attacking force. If they are smart they will be able to suprise AV and win the fight. Me and Enigma would get the drop on a proto forge gunner hit him 3 times before he even could spot us and yet after he got us in sight we where forced to run because he was able to tank 10 shots with his suit. That is just wrong when a hand heled weapon and a infantry unit gets dropped on by a vehicle and we still lose the fight. Most of this is because the splash is so poor on this build still. Cycled missile turret. This turret needs its direct damage buffed. SO itis more efficient at killing vehicles. It takes a good min to take out any tank with these things. It does not need a huge buff but a extra 50 points of damage should make it more effective. Remember I am using proto turrets and my gunner has all skills fully lvled. BLASTERS To be talked about more as I get a chance to test. RAILS To be talked about more as I get a chance to test.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 96	Posted - 2013.05.09 03:05:00 - [2] - Quote missiles are meant for splash damage I agree but 50% without reducing direct seems a little out of hand, how about 38% for starters? (also I see the cycled as fine, adding 150 damage total seems out of hand since I (sorry for repeating myself) are well balanced, fragmented is UP, yes its much cheaper then the accelerators but the accelerators have better splash and same direct and faster RoF, Fragmented should be the high splash damage low direct. rail guns NEED more range and direct damage, yes they are small turrets but they should be as good as FGs since these have to be mounted on vehicles while FGs are held by heavy's, rail guns should be the AV turret. Blasters seem ok to me... can`t think of anything wrong with them... I run Myron "gunships" and I`ve seen the deadly force they are but since profintioncy has been taken out I`ll need to test again.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2831	Posted - 2013.05.09 04:59:00 - [3] - Quote Small Railguns need to not be nerfed against installations any more. Not 100% sure if that was improved in the last hotfix, but they weren't working right after Uprising first showed up. Also, Railguns in general need to be instant-hit. The projectiles are supposed to travel at 7000 m/s. If that's true, then the shots that take half a second to reach the target are travelling 3.5 km, and I'm pretty sure clones aren't taller than Gundams. Missile turrets need their splash radius back, but I VERY STRONGLY disagree with tripling their range. Why? Because Dropships aren't the only vehicles in the game. Triple range means triple the direct-fire range of ground-based vehicles. LAVs hitting from across the map is broken. Super Sniper Missile Tanks making a comeback wouldn't be a good thing. What I WOULDN'T object to is a 50% base range increase on missiles, AND a 50% bonus to range on all weapons mounted on Dropships. Or they could tie it to the basic Dorpship skill, 10% range increase per level. Or do both, have a 25% range increase, and a skill that gives +5% per level. That would introduce stacking and make the multiplier go a little higher than a 50% increase. Splash definitely needs an increase, but I'd say try it with 20 - 30% first, see how it goes, THEN look at maybe increasing it. The problems with CCP nerfing things are because they change EVERYTHING in a weapon's stats all at once (reduce direct damage, reduce splash damage, reduce splash radius, reduce range, increase scatter), and changing everything at once means you don't get to measure how big each individual change was. Suggesting significant changes to more than one aspect of a weapon will just swing it too far the other way and get it beaten down by the nerf hammer again. Missiles +range (50%) +splash (20%) Dropships +range (up to ~50% with a skill to train) Two changes, one significant, one smaller.
develsgun Sunset Warriors Legacy Rising 24	Posted - 2013.05.09 05:46:00 - [4] - Quote Been flying assault dropship with full missel layout so I've tried them all and played with them Range is ok Dmg is ok as far as I can tell I'm only on the advance turrets and not fully specced out yet Splash yes more splash though in my mind 3.0m to a 3.5m on fragmented sounds good to me with them being 2.5 currently and hitting is possible though hard
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 97	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:14:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Small Railguns need to not be nerfed against installations any more. Not 100% sure if that was improved in the last hotfix, but they weren't working right after Uprising first showed up. Also, Railguns in general need to be instant-hit. The projectiles are supposed to travel at 7000 m/s. If that's true, then the shots that take half a second to reach the target are travelling 3.5 km, and I'm pretty sure clones aren't taller than Gundams. Missile turrets need their splash radius back, but I VERY STRONGLY disagree with tripling their range. Why? Because Dropships aren't the only vehicles in the game. Triple range means triple the direct-fire range of ground-based vehicles. LAVs hitting from across the map is broken. Super Sniper Missile Tanks making a comeback wouldn't be a good thing. What I WOULDN'T object to is a 50% base range increase on missiles, AND a 50% bonus to range on all weapons mounted on Dropships. Or they could tie it to the basic Dorpship skill, 10% range increase per level. Or do both, have a 25% range increase, and a skill that gives +5% per level. That would introduce stacking and make the multiplier go a little higher than a 50% increase. Splash definitely needs an increase, but I'd say try it with 20 - 30% first, see how it goes, THEN look at maybe increasing it. The problems with CCP nerfing things are because they change EVERYTHING in a weapon's stats all at once (reduce direct damage, reduce splash damage, reduce splash radius, reduce range, increase scatter), and changing everything at once means you don't get to measure how big each individual change was. Suggesting significant changes to more than one aspect of a weapon will just swing it too far the other way and get it beaten down by the nerf hammer again. Missiles +range (50%) +splash (20%) Dropships +range (up to ~50% with a skill to train) Two changes, one significant, one smaller. can`t say I agree with most of this.... also in 10-20ish minutes I`ll be putting turret stats here and pointing out flaws in stats and what they should be considering their type and variant.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 97	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:31:00 - [6] - Quote BLASTER FEEDBACK: These are all proto small blaster turrets, class and variant will be listed along with direct damage (DD), splash damage (SD), splash radius (SR), RoF, Heat Cost Per Second (HCPS), Heat capacity (HC) and CPU/PG. Compressed blaster needs a buff: compressed ION blaster: DD = 39.0 SD = 0 SR = 0 RoF = 714.03 HCPS = 25.5 HC = 100.0 CPU = 10 PG = 121 compared to Scattered ION blaster: DD = 42.2 SD = 0 SR = RoF = 857.01 HCPS = 15.0 HC = 100.0 CPU = 10 PG = 121 The Scattered is a meta 9 and costs more so it should have several advantages, and so it does, its RoF competes with the other turrets and has MORE damage then even the compressed, but the compressed has the slowest RoF and does the 2nd most damage, the Scattered should have the same advantage as the rest but the Compressed needs to be = in DD.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 97	Posted - 2013.05.09 06:50:00 - [7] - Quote Rail gun Feedback:: stats will be listed as direct damage (DD), splash damage (SD), splash radius (SR), RoF, Heat Cost Per Second (HCPS), Heat capacity (HC), Fire Interval (FI), Charge Up Time (CuT) and CPU/PG. particle Cannon: DD = 357.5 SD = 97.5 SR = 0.7 RoF = 0 HCPS = ? HC = ? FI = 1.1 CuT = 0.2 CPU = 22 PG = 97 XT- missile:: DD = 455.0 SD = 227.05 SR = RoF = 2.0 HCPS = 0 HC = 0 FI = 1.6 CuT = 0 CPU = 23 PG = 85 first things first, CCP if you can add HCPS and HC listed in stats then.... +1 I guess... and range.... both are Meta LV7 btw, now the Rail guns are the AV turrets, yes missiles do better splash and direct? the missile should be more splash and rail guns more direct since vehicles are larger targets and large direct damage would me it would be the bane of vehicles (which it should) so rail guns all around should get 150+ DD, I`ve went over the other turrets both missile and rail gun through all the meta LVs and it makes sense, if you want to see for yourself go check it out since I will not post that much stats. quick reason for the DD stats: Rail gun: STD = 275.0 ADV 330.0 = PRO = 357.0 missile STD = 350.0 ADV = 420.0 PRO = 455.0 now lets see if we take my suggestion: Rail gun: STD = 425.0 ADV 470.0 = PRO = 507.0 missile STD = 350.0 ADV = 420.0 PRO = 455.0 that means that railguns have DD lead by: STD = 75.0 ADV = 50.0 PRO = 35.0 that seems resanable for the true AV turrets to me.......if not add 120 DD to railguns and convert some DD to SD for missiles.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 97	Posted - 2013.05.09 07:17:00 - [8] - Quote Missile Feedback: stats will be listed as direct damage (DD), splash damage (SD), splash radius (SR), RoF, Heat Cost Per Second (HCPS), Heat capacity (HC), Fire Interval (FI), Charge Up Time (CuT) and CPU/PG. XT missile turrets: DD = 455.0 SD = 227.5 SR = 2.0 RoF = 0 HCPS = 0 HC = 0 FI = 1.6 CuT = 0 CPU = 23 PG = 85 XT Fragmented: DD = 455.0 SD = 170.6 SR = 2.7 RoF = 0 HCPS = 0 HC = 0 FI = 1.6 CuT = 0 CPU = 23 PG = 85 the Fragmented should have a higher DD and a lesser SD according to description, it is also 1 meta higher and costs more yet its radius is the only thing increased, I think +25 DD across the board should balance it out. current time : normal DD: STD = 350.0 ADV = 420.0 PRO = 455.0 Fragmented: STD = 350.0 ADV = 420.0 PRO = 455.0 if it were updated: normal DD: STD = 350.0 ADV = 420.0 PRO = 455.0 Fragmented: STD = 375.0 ADV = 445.0 PRO = 480.0 difference:.... well, self explanatory, +25 DD. another way which might be better is making them splash damage rather then direct, missiles should be more splash so here you go: buff SR for fragmented by 60+ difference between same tech variants: STD = 15.2 ADV = 7.5 PRO = 3.1 and then add 0.3 SR to all the fragmented 9giving them a 1.0 lead all across the board in total difference compared to each tech LV variant. it would make up for its DD flaw and replace it for a SD turret like the way it probably should be.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 1491	Posted - 2013.05.09 11:10:00 - [9] - Quote Not so sure if a range increase is really needed, but a slight increase say 10-20% would be nice. As for a splash radius increase, yes we really need it, you put missiles down really closet infantry but you don't do any damage, kinda silly.
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 11:19:00 - [10] - Quote dont waistte your sp brother i has all turrents unlocked to proto blasters worse than they were in chromosome but i think its more the aiming and the fact that you cannot aim up anymore rails are worse than chromosome i believe a 80 gj rail used to get 6-8 shots no heat sink now it gets 5

BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 11:22:00 - [11] - Quote BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: dont waistte your sp brother i has all turrents unlocked to proto blasters worse than they were in chromosome but i think its more the aiming and the fact that you cannot aim up anymore rails are worse than chromosome i believe a 80 gj rail used to get 6-8 shots no heat sink now it gets 5 i dislike how all missile turrents fire at same speed i mean the rockets fire at different speeds yes but the rate of fire is same across board thats an issue 2.5 second and the only thing you can do to missiles dmg mod not worth it rotation enhancment not worth it. (oh wait what i meant was the only thing you could do before ccp decided to make all caldari tankers has powergrid expansions as the only possible low
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 11:23:00 - [12] - Quote the range for missiles is equvilant to blaster / fragmented proto vs scattered proto stabilized proto vs accelerate prot...
BelleMorte MORTIMOR Betaguards 2	Posted - 2013.05.09 11:24:00 - [13] - Quote BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: the range for missiles is equvilant to blaster / fragmented proto vs scattered proto stabilized proto vs accelerate prot... railguns still has about 3-4 x the range of all other vehicle turrents.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 97	Posted - 2013.05.09 18:54:00 - [14] - Quote BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: BelleMorte MORTIMOR wrote: the range for missiles is equvilant to blaster / fragmented proto vs scattered proto stabilized proto vs accelerate prot... railguns still has about 3-4 x the range of all other vehicle turrents. last time I checked my missiles went further then my railguns.... can I get feedback on the numbers I posted? I wouldn`t want that to go to waist
Ghural The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 78	Posted - 2013.05.11 03:01:00 - [15] - Quote Rail guns and missle lauchers both need to be looked at. Both do sub par damage and are inaccurate. Blasters are ok (though aiming can be an issue)
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 110	Posted - 2013.05.12 13:52:00 - [16] - Quote bump.


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