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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 03:55:00 -
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tribal wyvern wrote:copy left wrote:I think it would be fair to allow us a respec for the 14th. After all people want to try the new weapons out. And what about those who are happy with their choices now? Not everyone is demanding ANOTHER respec. There are skills (mostly for vehicles) which blatantly don't provide the bonus they list in their description. When the only way to find that out was to skill into them, realise you didn't have the capabilities you needed, then skill further into them thinking maybe there had been a stealth nerf to the base stats on your tank, then go back and realise that nothing has changed, then what are you supposed to do?
Hope they fix it, and just deal with the fact that you're not over-skilled and have lost SP you wouldn't have spent if you knew it was a broken skill? Or let them change the skill description without refunding the lost SP that now covers not just those skills, but everything vehicle-related because there's no way you're going to try and run a tank with that little PG? |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:07:00 -
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Joseph Ridgeson wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73748&find=unread it's because of this. You have got to be freaking kidding me... So the skill that I put all those points into so I can actually use a vehicle is actually lying to me and is meant to do something completely different? Yes, please allow a respec. When skills explicitly state that they do X but instead do Y, that is the fault of the game makers when people 'make mistakes' and level that skill. That is seriously lame... I think it's worth mentioning the devs have said they know there's a problem with "the PG skill" on tanks, and are going to fix it, but they haven't given a straight answer on whether the skill is applying to the wrong thing, or the description is incorrect. If it's the former, we MIGHT be able to use the skill - but if we've over-skilled, that's still a huge amound of SP that's been wasted by pouring into something we only needed for the passives. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:29:00 -
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RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:There is so much to test. I to bungled some skill points in testing as the skills were not clear on how they interacted for my logibro crew. I would like a reset as well now knowing what was not posted at the time, how some skills are broken and how others do not act as they should.
One example, as some of you may know, now that investing in different special suits that say "logistics suit bonus: etc." do not stack for every logistics suit. It is not specified that it will only work for that suit because beneath that is another statements saying the racial variant bonus of the suit. Yet the skill only applies to that suit type. That was not listed, it needed to be tested.
Allowing the skilling to stack would have been op - but it needed to be verified and now we can recommend that the writing clarify such statements like adding the racial variant name to both skills listed so as to announce that it only works on that suit and not just the class.
SP Reset So if you skill to level 5 in Amarr Logi, then skill to level 1 in Caldari Logi, you only get 1HP/s rep rate? I'd understand if you only got 5 (maxed Logi skill), but only getting 1 sounds wrong based on the description. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:02:00 -
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RydogV wrote:A respec the day PC drops Madness. No thank you. Spent nearly 10 hours working my skill tree yesterday. Not a single Skill Point wasted. Good to go...thanks anyway. So you have your plan noted down somewhere, and can respec correctly at a moment's notice then? So a respec shouldn't affect you? Good to know you approve of the idea.
Oh, you said no? How does that work? "I got what I wanted, so who cares if some players' skills aren't being applied correctly and they were forced to skill into things before finding out that "actually, the skill description doesn't match the effect" |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 12:50:00 -
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Mobius Wyvern wrote:BobThe843CakeMan wrote:I demand we have a respec for all these false skill labels. and yes i have filed 1. False skill labels? Could you clarify that, please? Did you actually hit Triangle to read the description of each skill before putting points into it? I went to Vehicle Engineering, hit triangle, and saw that it increases PG by 5% per level.
I trained it up a couple of levels because I knew I'd need at least level 2 based on how I skilled into the previous build.
I then bought a Sica and tried to fit it, and found myself DRASTICALLY short on PG and a little short on CPU as well, so I went back and skilled another 2 points into the skill, as well as skilling up several points into Electronics (checked and saw 5% increase to CPU) and Shield Extenstion (checked and found it reduced CPU cost of Shield Extenders, which I planned to add 2 of) skills so that I'd have enough CPU to fit as I planned.
Went back, and found that not only was there no change to my max PG, but also no change to max CPU or the CPU cost of a Shield Extender.
Vehicle skills don't give the bonuses they're meant to provide according to the descriptions. Devs have acknowledged that it's ann issue and will be fixed, but haven't clarified whether the issue is with the description being incorrect, or the skill applying the wrong bonus. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 13:26:00 -
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semperfi1999 wrote:Edit: I would like to note that where CCP messed up on the skills they need to correct that and then give the correct bonus described or refund that specific skill set to the players who specced into them. However by far this is not the issue with most players. Most players just specced into things without any thought and screwed themselves. If the skills I trained actually worked as described, I wouldn't have skilled as far into them before finding out they didn't work, and I wouldn't have skilled into alternative methods to further improve my fitting capabilities (which also didn't work) when I was yet to find out the original skills I trained hadn't actually applied a bonus.
It isn't ONLY the skills that don't work as described which are affected by them not working as described, some people have invested signifcant SP into related skills to try and make up for shortfalls they thought were due to something else because we were given incorrect information. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.08 14:11:00 -
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hydraSlav's wrote:p.s. broken skills are broken, and will be fixed. That has nothing to do with your decisions to blindly dump SP in your "old build" and then figure out that surprise surprise: things are different. And if broken skills are "fixed" by having their description changed to match the new intended purpose, do we get a respec when we bought a skill that said it did something very different that no skill does any more?
And in my case, I didn't "blindly dump SP" on my old build, I knew I was going to need more PG and CPU than a Sica has as a baseline without having to look up the exact stats, so I put a few points into PG and CPU increasing skills. Then I tried fitting a Sica with a few of the basics I wanted, and found that I still needed more PG and CPU. I went back to the skills page, upgraded both skills, and bcause CPU looked a lot lower than expected, I also put a few points into Shield Extension because one of the main CPU drains on my planned fitting was a Heavy Shield Extender. I came back and found that there had been no change to current or max PG or CPU on my fitting, which was still invalid.
Pretty sure that qualifies as logical and sensible investment in skills when I was reading the descriptions in order to decide on the best course of action. Pretty sure it's not my fault those skills weren't working as described. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.09 06:29:00 -
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Don Von Hulio wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:It's pretty obvious how many threads are going on about this (3-4) at once. It needs to be addressed if that many people are complaining about it. What? Maybe for noobs who have like 2mil SP total.... but not for veterans with more than 2mil SP. We knew changes were coming, we know how to view details of items/skills, we know to plan ahead... So if you blew your SP, then you should be SOL. Oh, so it's MY fault that I "blew my SP" on a skill that DOESN'T DO WHAT THE DESCRIPTION SAYS IT DOES? And it's my fault I "blew my SP" on other skills that are related trying to make up for what I thought was a shortfall in my fitting capabilities when it turned out it was a skill not applying the advertised bonus?
I DID MY RESEARCH TOO. I WAS LIED TO. I'm not the only one who's in this boat. Most people skilling into vehicles have found that certain skills DON'T WORK AS DESCRIBED. We don't get what we invested our SP into.
Even if they fix the skill, I've invested into things I had no reason to invest in yet. And I've over-invested in the skills I was intending to train. I need AT LEAST a refund of the SP I spent on vehicles.
When there are skills that don't work, asking for a respec because of it is fair enough. yes, there are whiny "I spent my SP on stuff that sucks now" people, and yes, "you still chose to skill into it" is a valid answer to them, but it's NOT a valid answer to ALL the reasons why someone would want to respec. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:47:00 -
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Phoenix Arakyd wrote:No, because something else will be perceived as OP, skilled into, and then they will beg for another respec. Again and again. Ad infinitum. No SP respec or refund for that skill unless it has the wrong description. If you skill into something to take advantage of its OP'dness, and it gets a balance pass, too bad. And what if I skilled into several different skills to fill out something I wasn't able to improve as I had planned because I didn't know the skill description was wrong and based my investment in those skills on that incorrect information?
I have about half a million SP invested in skills that are of no value to me unless the Engineering skill is changed, and even then I have over 200,000 SP invested in skills that I can't use, because I trained the skills to help me to balance out the shortfall I thought was caused by reduced PG stats on the vehicles rather than a failure of the skill to provide the described bonus. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:22:00 -
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Mathew LaBorde wrote:i do not believe the skill points are ccp's fault. i think you and everyone shouldve used an alt or read the descriptions and spent time researching the skills instead of assuming that they would be the same as the last build. its common sense. take your time and dont rush into things like a wild hog going fotr the kill. no. i do no think that there should be a respec. it is your own fault. next time stay up to date with whats going on with the updates instead of thinking that they are a waist of time. and all you jellybeans using moded controllers for the glu and other tac's, im ashamed to even be on the same battlefield. pitiful... Oh, another person telling me that I should have "read the descriptions and spent time researching".
VEHICLE ENGINEERING. Look it up. Look at the skill description. Does it say "5% increase to vehicle maximum PG per level" or "5% reduction in CPU cost of PG modules"? Because "5% increase to vehicle maximum PG per level" isn't what it actually does. |
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Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.10 21:19:00 -
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CRAZYHORSE ONE EIGHT wrote:I will sign this if they are NOT fixing the Vehicle Engineering skill to give +5% more PG to vehicles like the description states. If they are making it work correctly then disregard this post.
If they just change the description to Vehicle Engineering -> "Reduces the CPU usage requirement of powergrid upgrade modules at -5% per level", then i think a respec option would be fair.
The vehicle engineering bonus of CPU reduction to a module that takes 15 CPU or so is pretty much useless bonus. An extra 4 or 5 CPU on a tank really won't help much especially when i already have plenty of CPU in reserve (with only the Vehicle electonics skill at level 4). They've changed the description.
I CAN create a decent - not ideal - substitute for my previous HAV design, but I've got SP invested into skills that DON'T work as advertised when I skilled into them.
I also had a problem where I needed a little extra CPU, and trained a skill to get it which doesn't apply to the module I was using, because it's a Militia module (and some Militia mods aren't benefitting from relevant skills).
Basically, I have almost 1 million SP invested incorrectly because of CCP's mistakes, and I'm going to need my SP back so I can actually spend it where it will be useful.
And all you people saying "no respec for you" and "you should have read the descriptions", DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS? NO. STFU. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:50:00 -
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Darius Ashran wrote:So lets see a lot of you went and made impulsive choices without doing your reading and research as to what those choices would get you and now your crying for CCP to fix your mistakes? Look skills where bugged its true. It also was not hidden. Clear inspection between the skills and modules showed the discrepancy clearly . If you then choose to spec into Dropsuits instead of waiting for CCP to fix it . People that is stupidity worthy of a golf clap. And just plane short sighted. Which combination of modules and skills was it possible for me to look at to find out that Vehicle Engineering gives a reduction in CPU cost to PG modules instead of the PG increase that was described on the skill? And where would I find the information about Militia modules not getting this benefit either?
Which combination of modules and skills should I have looked at to find out that Militia Shield Extenders don't get the CPU reduction from Shield Extension? |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.11 11:05:00 -
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Darius Ashran wrote:Note in my statement I was not referencing vehicle skills not applying the right bonus to a given mod but rather the Mods showing the right skill requirements ( though the effect was broken) And then people going and investing the the dropsuits skills instead as a stop gap rather then waiting for a fix. And this was indeed as i said clearly visible. At no point was I referencing modules not getting a bonus. Hope that clears that up for you. All you're saying is that nobody should get a respec, and that we should have looked at the modules and skills to see the problems. Some of the problems which caused people to spend SP incorrectly were problems that WEREN'T obvious by following your advice.
Quote:Now here we are with people demanding that poor choice be fixed and SP refunded. Now the skills where not working but the requirements from what I examined where right on most of them certainly enough for context, the skills where just not functioning. If your reference to " skills we may never use" was in regard to the dropsuit skills.. I direct you to my previous post. So this means that you not only can't spell "were", but also think that people with LEGITIMATE expenditure of SP on skills that were incorrectly described shouldn't get our SP respec because there are other people who don't deserve one?
Quote:Should CCP refund? Imo no. But again if they do. Learn something from the mistake made prior and be thankful CCP fixed it for you. The community IS entitled to many things as we are the consumer. But we are not entitled to foolish choices with no consequences. I'll take this as confirmation of my previous question.
I don't agree. I can work around the problems, but it would make more sense to get the SP back when it wasn't invested into what I was told I was buying. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.11 11:40:00 -
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Darius Ashran wrote:I would point out Garret less then half that post was directed at you, please read carefully. Most was directed at English tryn reading it as such. And yes I made a typo clearly this is an indictment of my ability in regards to spelling. ( note the sarcasm just in case you missed it) Honestly, it seems like your going out of your way to misinterpret things or your just not paying attention.
If those things don't apply to you then don't take offense to them. If they do grow a pair and try moving on from sad and petty attempts at instigating anger in others rather then forming a good counter point it will serve you better. My name has a double "t"
Sorry for calling you on the typo, didn't think you'd take that part seriously.
But you were specifically arguing "no" on a respec, and giving reasons that don't apply to everyone wanting a respec. THAT was my point. |
Garrett Blacknova
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Posted - 2013.05.11 12:20:00 -
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Sorry Wrong Chat wrote:I am strictly against a SP Reset in any way.
Though I am still a noob with les than 8 Mio SPs I think CCP gave us enough information before 6th of May.
Some pple said, why should I read all of these informations in forum, i wont do that - BUT i wanna have my SP back --> well RTFM or **** happens....
I know a lot of ppl who made wrong decisions in their Skill Consumption after 6th of May, and other who chose more wisley.
Some players did not spent their SPs, waiting for the new weapons.
Both strategies have their pros and contras, it is a player decision.
I think pple who ran straight forward without thinking what they are skilling should not get the advantage in resetting their SP again, because now "they know it better".
Every decision with SPs should be final, no way to change. Do you disagree with a respec for people who trained a skill which was distinctly labeled "5% increase to PG" and instead got a 5% reduction in CPU use for PG modules that doesn't actually apply to all PG modules?
Do you disagree with people getting a respec when we skilled into Shield Extension while intending to run a Militia Shield Extender but wanting the CPU reduction the skill offers, and getting no reduction because Militia gear is (unintentionally) exempt from the skill's benefit in the current build? |
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