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KA24DERT
Not Guilty
EoN.
24
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Posted - 2013.05.07 07:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think the MD might have gotten one of the hardest nerfs.
1) Splash Damage Reduced
Splash was acceptable, did good against armor, bad against shield. I thought it was passable. With this reduction it's like trying to tickle someone to death.
2) Splash Radius Reduced
This especially hurts when trying to lead targets at a distance. The MD projectile has travel time and it takes alot of skill to lob a shot and hit someone 2 seconds later. With the radius reduced, this is extremely hard now. Hell even at medium distances it becomes hard to deal with dancing scouts.
I guess the bright side is that it's safer to use for Close Quarters Combat, which is pointless since the MD is among the lowest DPS weapons in the game. Almost every weapon in the game can out damage a mass driver up close.
3) Nanohive Nerf
For MD above all other weapons the nanohive nerf hits hard. The maximum capacity for a MD is 18, which is good for about 3-4 engagements. After exhausting ammo we now have to sit on a hive for a good long time before doing anything constructive.
The combination of all these things has made the mass driver a very weak weapon. It can't deny areas(hives run out fast, splash is tiny), can't tango up close(damage too low), and can't hit **** far out(splash radius too small).
Can we at least get the splash radius back to where it was? |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
709
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Posted - 2013.05.07 07:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
There aren't enough mass drivers on the field. I miss dodging 'nades already. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
514
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Posted - 2013.05.07 09:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
The old terrain glitch is completely gone and the MD as a whole is very consistent. Just being able to actually kill with the damn thing is a huge bonus to whatever nerf did occur. The sight still leaves a little to be desired, but I can live with hip firing until it gets fixed. If anything, I miss the wacky ragdoll physics when you killed someone. |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
15
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Posted - 2013.05.07 10:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Totally unacceptable.. I cant play my toon anymore.. goodbye 6mill SP's... |
Still blazn
Planetary Response Organisation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.07 11:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
bump |
OG- Kush
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.07 11:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can I start a petition to have the guy fired who first stood up in a staff meeting and said " lets nerf every decent weapon by like 80% then on top of that lets booost the AR".... |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
15
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Posted - 2013.05.07 12:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
*SIGNED*.. Im picturing Dave Chapelle standing up and smacking the guy in the meeting.. |
Illuminaughty-696
Omega Risk Control Services
257
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
OG- Kush wrote:Can I start a petition to have the guy fired who first stood up in a staff meeting and said " lets nerf every decent weapon by like 80% then on top of that lets booost the AR"....
lol. AR was not boosted. It's range was dropped considerably, for one thing.
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Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
156
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't understand the nerf of the MD. I didn't see any QQing about MD.
I hope they fix it a 50% reduction in splash damage and essentially 10% off direct damage with the Freedom was just too much. |
Azraya Veldman
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
3
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Illuminaughty-696 wrote:
lol. AR was not boosted. It's range was dropped considerably, for one thing.
Yeah ... it was just "least nerfed". |
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Snaps Tremor
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
158
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Smoky The Bear wrote:Totally unacceptable.. I cant play my toon anymore.. goodbye 6mill SP's...
I think you can only really claim 1 million SP on the insurance before the liability switches to the person who, one day after the release of the biggest set of changes Dust has ever experienced, decided to pour a couple of months of SP into a weapon before they'd even tried it. |
Misses Trickster
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.05.07 14:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Snaps Tremor wrote:Smoky The Bear wrote:Totally unacceptable.. I cant play my toon anymore.. goodbye 6mill SP's... I think you can only really claim 1 million SP on the insurance before the liability switches to the person who, one day after the release of the biggest set of changes Dust has ever experienced, decided to pour a couple of months of SP into a weapon before they'd even tried it.
This.
Treat a gun like a new car. Take the badboy for a few trips around the block b4 you dump your time into it.
(also my direct hitting MD still works fine splash damage is for people who cant aim) |
KA24DERT
Not Guilty
EoN.
25
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wow, I almost forgot about the range nerf. Updated my list. Glad to see other mass driver users chiming in, I thought I was crazy for a second. |
Charizard Zakalwe
Goonfeet
35
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
I haven't really noticed any range issues but I have noticed some issues with rendering of rounds at longer distances (I dunno if it's a lag thing or just a 'busy map' thing or what) which makes it hard to dial in rounds from range, however. it seems to arc slightly differently too, which is what I"m really have issues with. Personally, I'd kill to have the sights actually be designed for use on normal planets and not ultra low gravity moons |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
18
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Posted - 2013.05.07 15:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Misses Trickster wrote:Snaps Tremor wrote:Smoky The Bear wrote:Totally unacceptable.. I cant play my toon anymore.. goodbye 6mill SP's... I think you can only really claim 1 million SP on the insurance before the liability switches to the person who, one day after the release of the biggest set of changes Dust has ever experienced, decided to pour a couple of months of SP into a weapon before they'd even tried it. This. Treat a gun like a new car. Take the badboy for a few trips around the block b4 you dump your time into it. (also my direct hitting MD still works fine splash damage is for people who cant aim)
NO I WILL NOT TEST DRIVE A ****** AR.. thanks
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Stormy Geddon
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
40
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Posted - 2013.05.07 16:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's worse when you consider the end game. You can fit suits with much more HP in the long run. It takes more SP now, but there are already crap loads of proto suits running around. Before the change, it would take a full clip (6 shots) to kill a proto assault using splash damage. Not a tanked proto, just a normal fit with 2 complex extenders. The base damage was reduced by about 14%. Weaponry doesn't help anymore, so there's another 15%. Everything favors shields more now, which are stronger against explosions and I don't have a % for that. Add on the 30 something % reduction on area and it a damn heavy nerf. The firing arc is different, but we'll get used to that. Considering its one of very few weapons without an instant travel time, these changes were too much.
Seriously, CCP, please stop making so many aspects of a weapon weaker at the same time when you nerf stuff. There is a distinct lack of MD on the field anymore. That should be proof enough you overdid it. If it truly was the easy button you apparently thought it was, more people would have been using it in the first place. Remember the days when tanks were really beastly? Every match had 5 or 6 because people will always gravitate toward the most efficient items in the game because we all want to win.
Please give us back something. Either damage or range. I'm not asking for the same stats as before, since offense in general took a nerf, but just make us competitive again before everyone is running around with 500 shield and takes 10 shots to kill. |
OG- Kush
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stormy Geddon wrote:It's worse when you consider the end game. You can fit suits with much more HP in the long run. It takes more SP now, but there are already crap loads of proto suits running around. Before the change, it would take a full clip (6 shots) to kill a proto assault using splash damage. Not a tanked proto, just a normal fit with 2 complex extenders. The base damage was reduced by about 14%. Weaponry doesn't help anymore, so there's another 15%. Everything favors shields more now, which are stronger against explosions and I don't have a % for that. Add on the 30 something % reduction on area and it a damn heavy nerf. The firing arc is different, but we'll get used to that. Considering its one of very few weapons without an instant travel time, these changes were too much.
Seriously, CCP, please stop making so many aspects of a weapon weaker at the same time when you nerf stuff. There is a distinct lack of MD on the field anymore. That should be proof enough you overdid it. If it truly was the easy button you apparently thought it was, more people would have been using it in the first place. Remember the days when tanks were really beastly? Every match had 5 or 6 because people will always gravitate toward the most efficient items in the game because we all want to win.
Please give us back something. Either damage or range. I'm not asking for the same stats as before, since offense in general took a nerf, but just make us competitive again before everyone is running around with 500 shield and takes 10 shots to kill.
I like what you said.. BUT.. im not settling for getting 10% back .. I want it all back.. otherwise the gun is useless.. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
use better nanohives?
they didn't nerf the high end nano hives, they just gave players a reason to use them, though IMO they should have lower CPU/pg now |
Charizard Zakalwe
Goonfeet
35
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Guess you better start carrying flux grenades. |
golddust freeman
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is really bad....MD was my weapon of choice. Im sitting there hitting people in splash damage range and it looks like they're taking a hit from a shotgon 50 meters away or somthing...wtf |
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Aquinarius Zoltanus
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
3
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
I was thinking about making a new thread for this, but there are probably enough Mass driver threads already so probably best to stick with this one.
First, I agree with you wholeheartedly, these nerfs have gone way over the line. I think that the Mass Driver was one of the best balanced weapons in Chromosome. It had a steep learning curve, but high skill ceiling so that it could be very powerful when mastered. It already has several inherent weakness, such as risk of self-damage/suicide, arced trajectory, significant travel time, low ammo count and slow reload speed. Weakening this weapon further was really unnecessary.
But in addition to that what I wanted to mention is that I find the new animations for explosions make it hard to track if you've hit your target. In Chromosome the explosion kicked up a cloud of dust and you could see pretty well if you hit your target. In this build, the explosion animation only sticks around for a split second and there's hardly any visual representation of the size of your splash damage. Almost all of my kills so far have been direct hits. Whereas in Chromosome, most of my kills ended up being splash (while using a full clip, mind you).
I'm having the same difficulty judging the explosions of grenades, regular and flux. The animation looks incredibly small, but I think it's hitting a wider area than that, it's just very difficult to determine.This really adds more difficulty to an already difficult weapon. |
Still blazn
Planetary Response Organisation
1
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
well said.. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.05.07 18:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Misses Trickster wrote:Snaps Tremor wrote:Smoky The Bear wrote:Totally unacceptable.. I cant play my toon anymore.. goodbye 6mill SP's... I think you can only really claim 1 million SP on the insurance before the liability switches to the person who, one day after the release of the biggest set of changes Dust has ever experienced, decided to pour a couple of months of SP into a weapon before they'd even tried it. This. Treat a gun like a new car. Take the badboy for a few trips around the block b4 you dump your time into it. (also my direct hitting MD still works fine splash damage is for people who cant aim)
Doofus - the whole point of a MD is that you dont have to hit the zit on the opponent's nose. If you are a crack shot then yippie - continue to roll with your breach but that is only one type of MD.
Going to spend my limited SP elsewhere and hopefully come back to this weapon in the future when its fixed because this cant be what CCP intended. |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
26
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gotta wonder whats the motivation for people with "no problems" to be on the forums posting useless opinions.. when 90% of them use an AR... |
Aquinarius Zoltanus
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
3
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Posted - 2013.05.07 19:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Smoky The Bear wrote:Gotta wonder whats the motivation for people with "no problems" to be on the forums posting useless opinions.. when 90% of them use an AR...
Sorry Smoky, but you're really not being very helpful or constructive. You have no idea what weapons or builds the people who are enjoying uprising are using. Who knows, maybe they're using missile assault dropships (which I've seen owning).
But honestly, that is beside the point of this thread. On the whole I enjoy Uprising, but would like to see some changes to the Mass Driver. Maybe if we stay constructive they'll actually happen. |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
27
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Posted - 2013.05.07 20:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
If you wanna be constructive go build a castle.. I wanna get my gun fixed... |
KA24DERT
Not Guilty
EoN.
26
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Posted - 2013.05.08 02:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've played a few more rounds to get used to the new MD, and found two more annoyances, the smoke trail, and that stupid muzzle flash. Updated the list of new mass driver nerfs/bugs to 6 total. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
League of Infamy
905
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 02:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Misses Trickster wrote:Snaps Tremor wrote:Smoky The Bear wrote:Totally unacceptable.. I cant play my toon anymore.. goodbye 6mill SP's... I think you can only really claim 1 million SP on the insurance before the liability switches to the person who, one day after the release of the biggest set of changes Dust has ever experienced, decided to pour a couple of months of SP into a weapon before they'd even tried it. This. Treat a gun like a new car. Take the badboy for a few trips around the block b4 you dump your time into it. (also my direct hitting MD still works fine splash damage is for people who cant aim)
So your response to analysis on the nerf of a weapon is essentially "L2P"?
There were several issues listed in the OP with descriptions yet your final line in response to this thread is implying that anyone who wants splash from an area denial AoE weapon just needs more skill? Not every gun is supposed to be run and gun, direct fire or work at the same range. Diversity in weapon types (as well as other gear in the game) improves the game while homogeneity diminishes it, the AR is a good weapon, so is the sniper rifle and the shotty but none of them should be the only type of gun in the game.
It's one thing to say try it out when the weapon is new or there are documented changes made to it. But it's another to say it about a weapon with the same name, same image, same description in the same game without specific documentation in the patch notes. The idea that someone should just assume there are stealth nerfs is beyond silly, because stealth changes are simply bad practice. "Adapt or Die" is just fine, but having undocumented changes is like having false UI feedback, it damages fundamental aspects of the game. No one should have to check the stats of their gear every time they log in (or even every time there's a hotfix/patch) just to be sure it wasn't altered. That's what patch notes are for, anything else is rather misleading.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
Smoky The Bear
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
35
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Posted - 2013.05.08 04:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
golddust freeman wrote:This is really bad....MD was my weapon of choice. Im sitting there hitting people in splash damage range and it looks like they're taking a hit from a shotgon 50 meters away or somthing...wtf
Welcome to the way of the new world "Cobra" |
KA24DERT
Not Guilty
EoN.
60
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Posted - 2013.06.12 04:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Remnant wrote:...The reason for the splash and blast range nerf was that in playtests we found the MD to be so effective that at one point almost half the people in the office were using it in battles.
The other mass driver thread is getting a bit off topic, this response from CCP Remnant explains the seemingly arbitrary nature of the damage and range nerfs.
The nerfs seemed arbitrary because they ARE arbitrary. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1146
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Posted - 2013.06.12 05:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:NEW SECTION: OLD VERSUS NEW STATS
In this section I will post only the changed stats of the weapons which are area of effect and damage. Please note that I am not aware if the page rearranges text if viewed on devices such as tablets of phones so if it does the following pseudo table will not view correctly.
ODD = Old direct damage
NDD = New direct damage
OSD = Old Splash damage
NSD = New Splash damage
OSR = Old Splash radius
NSR = New Splash Radius
STATS--MASSDRVR--"TSUNAMI"--BREACH---EXO-5---"CYCONE"---EC-3---EK-A2---FReeDOM---BOUNDLESS--CORE
ODD-------- 225 ------------ 247.5 -------- 315 -------- 247.5 ------ 270 ------- 148.5 ---- 346.5 ------ 270 -------- 162 -------- 378
NDD-------- 242 ------------ 242.0 -------- 338 --------- 254 -------- 254 ------- 152.5 ----- 355 -------- 266 -------- 159 -------- 372
OSD-------- 115 ------------ 126.0 -------- 80.5 ------- 126.5 ------ 138 --------- 75 ------ 88.6 ------- 138.0 ------- 82.8 ------- 96.6
NSD-------- 116 ------------ 116.0 -------- 81.0 ------- 121.8 ----- 121.8 ------- 73.1 ----- 85.3 ------- 127.6 ------- 76.6 ------- 89.3
OSR--------- 4 --------------- 4.4 ---------- 3.0 ---------- 4.4 --------- 4.8 --------- 6.6 ------ 3.3 --------- 4.8 ---------- 7.2 --------- 3.6
NSR--------- 3 --------------- 3.0 ---------- 2.2 ---------- 3.1 --------- 3.1 --------- 4.7 ------ 2.4 --------- 3.3 ----------- 5 ----------- 2.5
As we can see by the information above, the nerf of up to 39% splash radius of some of these, the reduction to splash damage of all but the original MASS DRIVER, the shield buff to most dropsiuts and the reduced efficiency this weapon has against shields has made it obsolete for the battlefield.
Just a bit more info to look at.
~Cross |
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