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Your SP system is bad and you should feel bad

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Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 738	Posted - 2013.05.07 01:03:00 - [1] - Quote Why this new SP system is bad, presented in a hopefully easy to understand manner that uses a lot of words: Meaningless disclaimer: My numbers may be wrong slightly, because I couldn't find a great resource to get the info in a way that was easy to process, but the magnitude of difference in comparisons won't be a big deal if the numbers are off by the most that they could be (might have skipped or double-counted a couple skills in each case and don't really want to go back over it all again, error is likely to be the same on both sides, so differences are essentially the same if there are any errors). 1. It takes too long to specialize. The time to max-spec has increased by a large factor. Max-spec in this case is going to factor in being able to use one suit, one weapon, and have access to modules to fill all slots and have all passives that influence that fit. Using any old suit running an AR: Last build, time to max-spec was roughly: 28.3 million SP (552.6 days without boosters) This build, time to max-spec is roughly: 37.9 million SP (740.8 days without boosters) Note: If we factored in a sidearm, the gap would only be about 1.5 million SP smaller (about 8 million total difference). Those numbers are vastly inflated by a lot of things like maxing out your stamina/hacking kind of passives that you don't really need, but if you've got nothing else to dump points into, "why not?" kind of situations. The problem with these changes becomes apparent when cross-spec'ing a max-spec suit. Say you want to take this character and use some new weapons - scrambler rifle and laser rifle. Last build, time to max-spec the two weapons: 4.35 million SP (85 days without boosters) This build, time to max-spec the two weapons: 13.7 million SP (267.2 days without boosters) In the first instance, there was a lot of overlap with the light weapon skills. Now, to get into a weapon, you start fully from scratch. Not only does it take longer to max your spec in general, but it takes more than 3x the amount of time to add a new weapon to your repertoire. 2. It is literally impossible for a player to utilize all the content. I get the concept of nobody should be maxed everything, but here are the facts: It will take you over 12 years to max all of the available skills. That is without boosters, but it also requires that you hit your active cap every single week. Seem like a long time? It should. In order to get racial parity in the items shown at fanfest (suits, knives, pistols, rifles, and vehicles), it will add another 5.4 years worth of items (just over 100 mill SP, if everything follows the current SP model). Don't argue that you can use alts to use all the available content. Numbers used here require that the player hit their active cap each and every week, which is an investment of roughly 10 hours per week per character. To have enough SP to access all the initial Uprising content in just 2 years would take playing the game in excess of 60 hours per week, every week, for 2 years. 3. Why does any of this matter? There are 4 problems with this current situation: 1. The reward system is sparse. Games are designed to trickle in rewards and keep next-rewards in sight of the player to maintain interest. This new system pushes next-rewards so far out of view for something so unrewarding (30 days to unlock the last level of your gallente logistics dropship skill for 2% reduction in armor module CPU cost). 2. The grind becomes the focus of the game. You are not able to play the game how you want, because you don't have everything your desired fit requires. This makes the focus on earning SP, rather than enjoying the game in different ways. Want to hire yourself out as a ringer and focus solely on Planetary Conquest? Too bad, you have to sacrifice some of your time because you need this week's SP still because you still don't have X. 3. It is impossible (loosely-used, but literal pre-1 year mark) to be well-equipped both in vehicles and on the ground. You have to specialize to be competitive, lest you be mediocre at everything. If you want to use vehicles, you have to dump all your SP there, and with no cross-spec skills (eg. armor/shield hp, CPU/PG passives like we had before), you end up with your SP split 100/0 instead of 100/40 or so. 4. The gap between new players and vets increases substantially. This is the biggest one. The longer it takes someone to specialize, the longer it takes a new player to catch up to those already specialized. Remember how much fun everyone was having in low-end gear facing full squads of proto players? Make that struggle a much longer period of time and you have the current SP system.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 742	Posted - 2013.05.07 01:31:00 - [2] - Quote Peanut Butter KitKat wrote: Err.... How's this system different?.. Was it faster to level before? Many of the skills' multipliers went up or stayed the same. Very few went down. Also, many skills got separated out, eg. Light Weapon Rapid Reload turned into Assault Rifle Rapid Reload AND Laser Rifle Rapid Reload AND Shotgun Rapid Reload AND... Balzich Rotaine wrote: Exactly, I played the beta. So, why can't I have proto everything right now so I can pub stomp all new players no matter what gear they bring to the field. Why make us specialize at all? With 8 million sp there is no reason why I shouldn't have a proto tank, dropship, heavy, and logi. I mean it's been hours since the new build came out. I should be at or close to end game by now. Perhaps you would enjoy reading the thread before commenting on it next time?
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 748	Posted - 2013.05.07 02:54:00 - [3] - Quote Oro Ossi wrote: Yes but an AR is totally different to a laser rifle and a forge gun is totally different to a minigun so having their own support skills works pretty good there is a use for them Even if it makes sense from a realistic standpoint, you're still looking at each new weapon they add taking roughly 4.5 million more SP to train up than it did with the old system.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 748	Posted - 2013.05.07 03:07:00 - [4] - Quote Oro Ossi wrote: Tiel Syysch wrote: Oro Ossi wrote: Yes but an AR is totally different to a laser rifle and a forge gun is totally different to a minigun so having their own support skills works pretty good there is a use for them Even if it makes sense from a realistic standpoint, you're still looking at each new weapon they add taking roughly 4.5 million more SP to train up than it did with the old system. You're still missing my point, each SP in weapons skills do something that's the specializing part of the game, The racial Light/Medium/heavy Dsuit skills at L5 to get to train caldari assault or minmatar logi or gallente scout does absolutely nothing but waste SP , if you didn't have to waste that SP on pointless skills then you have more for the weapon support skills. Yeah, I get that and know that's a huge part of the SP sink. I'm just saying each weapon having its own set of passive bonuses instead of the generic "light weapon" skills that affected all is causing a large part of the SP inflation. It's nice that they have their own unique kind of thing, but it's costing the player with how they implemented it.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 751	Posted - 2013.05.07 16:13:00 - [5] - Quote I knew I was forgetting one, but couldn't remember what it was. Why this is a problem for Dust when it isn't a problem for EVE: In EVE, there are ways to enjoy the game and progress your character without conflict. Not only that, but you are able to avoid conflict with vets as you get your character to a competent level. In Dust, the only ways to progress your character (ISK-wise, and more than 50% SP-wise) is conflict, and, to some extent, just don't play (whether that's AFK for SP or literally log out and wait til passive SP gets you enough SP to compete). Yesterday, in the several hours I played, I never saw a FW contract available. I know, it's just the start and things are still getting rolled out, but what that meant was I was forced to bring my squad of vets into instant battle where all the new players are likely to be, meaning new players had no way of avoiding conflict with vets. This is one aspect many people seem to forget when they bring up the counter that "this is how EVE does it." EVE players have ways to enjoy the game and progress their character both without conflict and without conflict with vets. Dust players only have those options by which to experience the game.

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