DUST Search - Passive skilling is ruining this game

Crash Monster wrote:

Aighun wrote:

It doesn't really matter how hard I try. How much I contribute to the team. I don't have to DO anything to get active SP. And it is kind of insulting. My effort doesn't really count for anything.

And the really messed up thing about it? It doesn't even matter if I get better at the game. I could go from getting killed 14, 15 times in a skirmish match, never hack a single objective or score a single assist. Never hack an installation or revive a team mate with a nanite injector, to scoring 6 kills and 4 assists while only dying 5 times, revive my squad mates, hack 3 objectives, blow up a tank. It would not matter. It does not matter. That is a huge improvement!

But I would get about the same amount of SP as I used to get. A little more, maybe. Because if that match was one of those fights where one team got steamrolled and redlined, well, guess what? I would get less SP in that battle than I would for doing nothing in a match that lasted a lot longer. The matchmaking system has more to do with how much SP I get for each battle than anything I do as a player.

I don't think we should get rid of it.

CCP needs to find a way to make success rewarding without creating a massive unbalance to the game. I do find that the amount I take home after a battle depends on how far up/down I am on the results list.

Leaving out the AFK malarky how much of a bonus do you need for doing better than other folks? If 25% isn't enough how much would be?

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Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 813	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:27:00 - [1] - Quote Not the kind where you can activate passive SP and your character will start gaining a few skill points every few seconds. I really like that my character is always building up a pool of SP when I don't have time to play. It is great to see all that SP waiting for me when I have had to work long hours for a week straight and haven't had a moment to log in and play some Dust. No, I'm talking about the passive skilling that is called "active" in game. All you have to do to get those "active" skill points is load up the game and press 4 buttons. Wait for a match to end. Repeat. It doesn't really matter how hard I try. How much I contribute to the team. I don't have to DO anything to get active SP. And it is kind of insulting. My effort doesn't really count for anything. And the really messed up thing about it? It doesn't even matter if I get better at the game. I could go from getting killed 14, 15 times in a skirmish match, never hack a single objective or score a single assist. Never hack an installation or revive a team mate with a nanite injector, to scoring 6 kills and 4 assists while only dying 5 times, revive my squad mates, hack 3 objectives, blow up a tank. It would not matter. It does not matter. That is a huge improvement! But I would get about the same amount of SP as I used to get. A little more, maybe. Because if that match was one of those fights where one team got steamrolled and redlined, well, guess what? I would get less SP in that battle than I would for doing nothing in a match that lasted a lot longer. The matchmaking system has more to do with how much SP I get for each battle than anything I do as a player. What is the point in trying? Progressing my character is not something I earn. I don't earn **. It just gets handed to me. Am I a charity case? Screw that. And all of that talk about how your choices in New Eden really matter, really make a difference? They don't when it comes to earning "active" skill points in battle. My choices don't really mean a damn thing. Maybe you thought the title of this thread was more QQ and drama. Not so. So called "active skilling" is literally ruining the game for me. As a player. I have gone from the bottom of the end of match leader-board to to the middle. I have gone from being one of those 1/13 guys to being one of those 5/6 guys. Its kind of a hollow victory. And when it comes to actually playing the game in order to invest SP into creating this unique, one of a kind, totally individual character that is all my own, MY DUST 514 mercenary, when I want to spend some time earning the the skill points I'll need to create my character, my Dust mercenary, the ***** heart and soul of this game, knowing that all I really need to do is press 4 buttons and wait for the match to end really just sucks. So called active skilling needs to go.
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:28:00 - [2] - Quote Is this a AFK farming thread? If yes +1
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 813	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:29:00 - [3] - Quote Plug for a plan to replace current active skilling: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=72260&find=unread
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 813	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:30:00 - [4] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote: Is this a AFK farming thread? If yes +1 I don't give a flying **** for what anyone else does in battle. I just want to be rewarded for what I do. And I want the reward to match my effort.
Lycuo On The Brink CRONOS. 5	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:45:00 - [5] - Quote Here's the thing... Although i too hate AFK sp farmers, When you go from the middle of the team in war points to the top of the team in war points they kinda actually help you... They allow you to fight for longer and accrue more warpoints which in turn usually means more Sp at the end of the day. and i say that this happens when u get towards the top because it seems like the difference in warpoints for the middle people doesnt change much because in the longer games the top 4 - 5 usually steal all the extra kills... On another note, i hate to say it but almost any game that has a open market (which this one will) has people who exploit it for a bot type game style to get extra things when they do not deserve it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2702	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:47:00 - [6] - Quote If you're in a match where someone gets 3000 SP for sitting in the MCC, and you go out and get 1000 WP helping the team, you don't get 3000 SP at the end of the match. You get 4000. REWARDING! +1.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 160	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:53:00 - [7] - Quote Aighun wrote: It doesn't really matter how hard I try. How much I contribute to the team. I don't have to DO anything to get active SP. And it is kind of insulting. My effort doesn't really count for anything. And the really messed up thing about it? It doesn't even matter if I get better at the game. I could go from getting killed 14, 15 times in a skirmish match, never hack a single objective or score a single assist. Never hack an installation or revive a team mate with a nanite injector, to scoring 6 kills and 4 assists while only dying 5 times, revive my squad mates, hack 3 objectives, blow up a tank. It would not matter. It does not matter. That is a huge improvement! But I would get about the same amount of SP as I used to get. A little more, maybe. Because if that match was one of those fights where one team got steamrolled and redlined, well, guess what? I would get less SP in that battle than I would for doing nothing in a match that lasted a lot longer. The matchmaking system has more to do with how much SP I get for each battle than anything I do as a player. I don't think we should get rid of it. CCP needs to find a way to make success rewarding without creating a massive unbalance to the game. I do find that the amount I take home after a battle depends on how far up/down I am on the results list. Leaving out the AFK malarky how much of a bonus do you need for doing better than other folks? If 25% isn't enough how much would be?
WyrmHero1945 Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 184	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:58:00 - [8] - Quote Those passive skill points should be something like 500~1000 per match. I agree.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 818	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:08:00 - [9] - Quote Lycuo wrote: Here's the thing... Although i too hate AFK sp farmers. I don't hate AFK sp farmers. I mean, I really hate everyone. I get frustrated and yell at almost anything any other player does that is annoying, stupid, or frustrating. I especially hate other players that shoot me in the face. And I want to shoot them back so they can hate me. Hate is good. When I see someone sitting in the MCC for the whole match I really don't feel anything at all anymore. Because I am not really doing anything all that different. Sure, I am running around getting my tank blown up and loosing ISK like a a veldspar miner that's invested in a pyramid schemeGÇª But I am no different than an AFK farmer. I am no better or worse than the player sitting in the MCC. When it comes down to it I pressed a few buttons and waited for the match to end. They pressed a few buttons and waited for the match to end. End of story. Or, if I hate anyone for mindlessly pushing button on match after match of Ambush OMSGÇª it has to be me. I would be lying to myself if I said that I was having fun or doing it for any other reason than to get the payout when the match ends. I have been saving up SP for some fun I hope to have next week. But what about 2 months from now? Back to where I am today. Again, the current system is not how I want to earn SP for playing the game.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 818	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:25:00 - [10] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: I don't think we should get rid of it. CCP needs to find a way to make success rewarding without creating a massive unbalance to the game. I do find that the amount I take home after a battle depends on how far up/down I am on the results list. Leaving out the AFK malarky how much of a bonus do you need for doing better than other folks? If 25% isn't enough how much would be? The current system should be replaced. Yes. I would like to earn active skill points. It isn't about doing better than other folks though. It's about earning skill points to build my character based on what I do in battle. It is about giving each and every player the chance to earn skill points based on what they do in battle. Check out the link a fer posts up for a plan I thought up. There are a number of ways to do this that would work though. I am sure if we all throw some ideas at CCP they can come up with a better way for players to earn SP based on the stuff they do in battles.

Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 497	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:29:00 - [11] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Aighun wrote: It doesn't really matter how hard I try. How much I contribute to the team. I don't have to DO anything to get active SP. And it is kind of insulting. My effort doesn't really count for anything. And the really messed up thing about it? It doesn't even matter if I get better at the game. I could go from getting killed 14, 15 times in a skirmish match, never hack a single objective or score a single assist. Never hack an installation or revive a team mate with a nanite injector, to scoring 6 kills and 4 assists while only dying 5 times, revive my squad mates, hack 3 objectives, blow up a tank. It would not matter. It does not matter. That is a huge improvement! But I would get about the same amount of SP as I used to get. A little more, maybe. Because if that match was one of those fights where one team got steamrolled and redlined, well, guess what? I would get less SP in that battle than I would for doing nothing in a match that lasted a lot longer. The matchmaking system has more to do with how much SP I get for each battle than anything I do as a player. I don't think we should get rid of it. CCP needs to find a way to make success rewarding without creating a massive unbalance to the game. I do find that the amount I take home after a battle depends on how far up/down I am on the results list. Leaving out the AFK malarky how much of a bonus do you need for doing better than other folks? If 25% isn't enough how much would be? I would be tempted to make it 65% for real effort/results and 35% for hand-holding charity. Let's think of it as a social security system for incompetence on the battlefield/inability to learn. But we need another avenue for peeps who can't/won't learn, who can't/won't socialize, and who can't/won't read the forums to be able to gain sp. PC won't work for this because peeps are going to have to be able to pull their weight. FW will prolly see these peeps getting steamrolled by players who run in squads. The only mechanic we know about that fits the bill is rogue drone NPCs. Players could supplement their ISK/sp through these missions. For now, the game could dispense missions, but ultimately they should be contracts posted by player corps for territory maintenance of drone infestations. Of course once you do that the issuer of the contract will care about the contractor's performance and isk efficiency......but let's cross that bridge when we come to it. In the interest of serving New Eden, the whole rogue drone thing should be a brilliant piece of social engineering that takes in struggling, wounded lone wolves and gives then a safer place to heal up while it subtly, inexorably draws then into New Eden's social universe. It can't and shouldn't try to manipulate them into staying - lone wolves can smell that from a mile away and don't respond well to it. But it should provide an environment, tools and connections where the lone wolves feel welcomed into choosing the level of engagement that is most comfortable for them. Not an easy task.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1419	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:36:00 - [12] - Quote This thread may interest you. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=71470 There is a reason they are AFKing - they don't want to grind. Monetize these players by giving them the SP for a sub price and everyone gets what they want.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 819	Posted - 2013.05.05 15:43:00 - [13] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I would be tempted to make it 65% for real effort/results and 35% for hand-holding charity. Let's think of it as a social security system for incompetence on the battlefield/inability to learn. But we need another avenue for peeps who can't/won't learn, who can't/won't socialize, and who can't/won't read the forums to be able to gain sp. Not an easy task. There is a name for the feature you are looking for. It is called PvE. Otherwise, no hand holding. No charity. The game should be designed to be the best game it can be. Why the hell would you make "incompetence" the guiding principle of any design feature? I want a game that rewards each and every player for their own personal successes. Why make a game that caters to failure? Besides, everyone already gains SP just for starting up a character. Passive SP. Players already earn ISK just for showing up to fight. And that is fine by me.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 841	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:11:00 - [14] - Quote Now with less QQ in the title. Share your experience with active skilling. As a Dust 514 player what is your reaction to the SP payout we get at the end of every match?
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 196	Posted - 2013.05.10 23:47:00 - [15] - Quote I agree that this is bigger than just AFK farming. It doesn't matter how good you did or not in the match, the bulk of your skill points earned will come from simply just being there. It's like a consolation prize in the trophy generation of children. And as the OP stated, it is insulting when you do really well and get barely anymore than someone who maybe wasn't AFK farming but still wasn't providing much help.


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